Windows XP frequent hangs

noahdfear,
A very good point, and correct, of course. Thanks. I was mollified (fooled) by the fact that two viri were already found and removed early on, but the symptoms continue.

shadowhawk,
Also a good point. Thanks.

And, of course,

this should be done as well.

I suppose we may be heading for a clean reinstall (with an fdisk first to totally clean the HDD - partition table and boot records, too) in case there's something we can't eliminate because it doesn't show up in the various scans, but I favor further efforts before doing anything that drastic, if Paul can stand all our help.

 

Paul Shillam

Hi Guy's.
I have knocked one of the AV's on the head but the problem started way before I had two running.
I tried running RAV on line but it say's I have to be logged in as system administrator which I am and won't run.
I have tried reseating everything hardware wise and also bought a new memory dim and replaced it. The CPU temp' seems normal and I don't think it is a heat probelm as it can hang a few minutes after being switched on, this morning it hung whilst waiting for me to log on. It has never hung in Dos like when I am doing hard disk copy or running PCChecik program.

 

Paul,

You haven't "please post your computer's description." yet, and it may help to know what sort of computer we're discussing (MoBo, CPU, size of memory and HDDs, and video card). If you know where the manual can be downloaded, that would also be interesting.

I don't believe the fact that dos seems to work just fine is significant of lack of infection; if anything, I think it would indicate that the problem is not with hardware. But so far I'm at a loss to explain what the problem is.

There are some other online virus scans, e.g., here.

 

Hi Paul,

Lets give toggling DEP a shot.

Right click on My Computer > properties > advanced tab > in the performance panel > settings > Data Execution prevention tab.

Two options: For Windows and for apps. If the app choice is ticked, untick and see the effect. If not, untick the Windows option and see the effect.

If no difference, I would urge you to re-enable DEP, this is a security measure to prevent buffer overruns.

Regards - Charles

 

Paul Shillam

I have tried toggling the DEP but it has made no difference

 

Hi PAUL,

I have tried toggling the DEP but it has made no difference

Then you're going to have to start looking at driver updates.

Regards - Charles

 

Paul Shillam

Charles, I don't understand why updating my drivers which have been ok for years would help my problem?
Here are the details of my computer home made some three years ago.
Mother Board Gigabyte GA-7ZX
Video 3D Blaster Geforce 2GTS
A EZ Connect Wireless PCI Adapter
CPU AMD 1000MHZ
Memory 512MB although I have swapped it since troubles started
Disks Disk 0 part 1 19.07 part 2 19.09
Disk 1 part 2 19.07 part 2 18.19
Disk 2 28.5
All are NFTS

The Event viewer never has anything in it for the hangs.

I use Drive Copy to copy Disk 0 to Disk 1 and it never hangs during that.

 

Hi PAUL,

Charles, I don't understand why updating my drivers which have been ok for years would help my problem?

Drivers are the intermediary between the OS and the hardware and if one of them changes there is a possibilty that it doesn't do it's job right.

I went looking for references:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=883775&product=windowsxpsp2

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;ln;xpsp2swhw

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/WinXP/Q_21135389.html

And that's the tip of the iceberg, tons of references. Google: drivers + SP2

Go to your drivers mfg's home pages and see if there are specific SP2 related updates. It's a possibilty that shouldn't be passed up, because otherwise what your left with either uninstalling SP2 - which will have future conseqeunces - or a reload which is no quarentee that this problem won't come up again.

These kind of problems are a bear to solve because there is nothing specific. It could even be memory. You can't ignore anything.

Regards - Charles

 

Paul, I just went thru this thread again because I'm losing track.

In the very first thread you write I am running XP Pro and for the last 6 months it frequently hangs and is getting worse

I apologise for going off on the SP2 tanget.

Whenever I read one of these hard to pin down problem posts, I recommend the following:

What I would suggest is doing a series of selective startups: 1st the OS by itself (safe mode) then selective startup options (with drivers) and then adding Applications one at a time. Go thru the routine of starting - shutting under each of these conditions. This is time consuming, but I think has to be done in order to narrow the problem down.

For reference, from here, the last time someone posted a similiar problem
http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=35803

Regards - Charles

 

Paul Shillam

I've tried running in safe mode with network connection but it has locked up twice, I'll try without network connection.

 

Hey Paul,

When you find what this is, PLEASE post the results. As you can see, this is fairly widespread. I also suspect that many who have this condition to varying degrees, don't complain about it.

Regards - Charles

 

Paul Shillam

System has just hung in plain old Safe mode. I use Norton AV Scan to make it work hard whilst doing these tests.

 

Thanks for the feedback Paul.

System has just hung in plain old Safe mode. I use Norton AV Scan to make it work hard whilst doing these tests.

That would indicate, pending further feedback, either a problem with the basic XP installation, or memory.

Memory testing software:

http://www.simmtester.com/ Simm testing software

http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

Regards - Charles

 

Paul Shillam

I bought a new 256MB Dim and swapped for the one in there and it still hung.

 

Curiousity Question. You stated that your system is three years old and self built. You have three HDD's and I'll assume 1-2 CD drives along with a floppy drive as a minimum. Although T-Bird 1000 was a very stable and Cool by comparison to its bigger brothers, what make and size PSU are you running and what are the actual observable running +/- ranges of 12v, 5v & 3.3v. Also, what are the +V amperage ratings. This last info will or should be available on a sticker/label on your power supply.

Secondly, are you running any spread spectrum settings set as on in your BIOS?

No solution yet, just a couple of questions.

 

Paul Shillam

I have just one CD Drive.
The info' on the PSU case is as follows
Make AOPEN Solutions Components
DC Output 250W
+3.3V 16.0A
+5V 25.0A
+12V 13.0A
+5VSB 2.0A
-5V 0.3A
-12V 0.8A

In BIOS it says:-
CPU Temp 56C
System temp 30C
Vcore 1.750v
Vdd 3.32V
Vcc 3.33V
+5V 4.90V
+12V 12.0V

I don't understand what you mean by spread spectrum settings in BIOS I just use the defaults.

 

Hard to say whether this can even be isolated to hardware vs software from the symptoms described thus far, but a measured "politically correct" response isn't going to resolve your problem so here goes my best thinking based on what has been posted.

Shot in the dark, but you are definately running on the risky side of the envelope with a 250 Watt PSU and an Athlon. Add three HDD's, a CDROM drive, a video card and a wireless PCI card and its called risky business. I always ran a minimum 350 Watt PSU for T-Birds & Palaminos and am not very comfortable with anything less than 400-500 for Thoroughbreds or Bartons. I run 500 as an absolute minimum for my own machines.

Now, lack of power will usually cause a shutdown instead of a freeze but I've seen insufficient power cause the behavior you are describing. On the other hand, your lockups/hangs/freezes may be memory timing related but an under-powered machine can also effect both memory read and write and cause similar behavior.

Can you borrow a PSU from someone and test your system with a more suitable PSU? There's a good chance that a three year old 250W PSU is exactly what ails you.

As to Spread Spectrum - doesn't sound like your BIOS is that sophisticated but here's the scoop - (an edited & abbreviated cut and paste)

This BIOS feature allows you to reduce the EMI of your motherboard by modulating the signals it generates so that the spikes are reduced to flatter curves. It achieves this by varying the frequency slightly so that the signal does not use any particular frequency for more than a moment.

The BIOS usually offers two levels of modulation - 0.25% or 0.5%. The greater the modulation, the greater the reduction of EMI. Therefore, if you need to significantly reduce your motherboard's EMI, a modulation of 0.5% is recommended.

In most conditions, frequency modulation via this feature should not cause any problems. However, system stability may be slightly compromised in certain situations. This BIOS feature may cause improper functioning of timing-critical devices.

Spread Spectrum can also cause problems with overclocked systems, especially those that have been taken to extremes. Even a slight modulation of frequency may cause the processor or any other overclocked components of the system to fail, leading to very predictable consequences.

Some BIOSes also offer a Smart Clock option. Instead of modulating the frequency of signals over time, Smart Clock turns off the AGP, PCI and SDRAM clock signals that are not in use. Therefore, EMI can be reduced without compromising system stability. As a bonus, using Smart Clock also helps reduce power consumption. The degree of EMI and power reduction will depend on the number of empty AGP, PCI and SDRAM slots. But generally, Smart Clock won't be able to reduce EMI as effectively as simple frequency modulation.

If you are not overclocking, the decision to enable or disable this feature is really up to you. But unless you have EMI problems or sensitive data that must be safeguarded from electronic eavesdropping, it is best to disable this feature to remove the possibility of stability issues. With that said, it is recommended that you enable Smart Clock, instead of the 0.25% or 5% option, if the option is available to you. It allows you to reduce some EMI without any risk of compromising your computer's stability.

 

Rockster2U:

I would like to know, off list if you want, what that means.
*****************************************************
Paul, I just limped a dying T-Bird through a traumatic couple of months. Do your back ups, and do a clean install of XP. If it still freezes, you have a hardware issue. I think Rockster is on target with the Power Supply. When I replace the mobo in my old t-bird, I will get better than the 350 I have in there, now.

One thing did occur to me while reading Rockster's response, especially with such a small PS, do you have a UPS, or some way of regulating the household current that comes into your computer? Do the lights in your house ever dim (brown-outs) when you turn on certain things? This is no big deal if it is happening occasionally, but, over time, frequent brown-outs can damage the computer. It could be happening, and you not even notice. All the good UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply) have surge protection and voltage regulators. (I think that's what they are called) I had a lot of hardware trouble in my 100 year old house with its 50 year old wiring, until I invested in a dedicated breaker for my comp, and an APC UPS.

Johanna

 

CPU Temp 56C
System temp 30C
Looks hot; try running with case open to see if that helps. Hope you're box is not in a cupboard or similar environment.

 

Just going to throw my 2 cents in here...

A few months back I was working on a friends PC and found that after about 15 minutes after boot the PC would hang...it was totally infected with virus and spyware...kids were using kazzaa. Anyways after cleaning the PC it still hung...I found the problem to be an issue with Winlogon.exe...it was taking 100% CPU so the PC was hosed => http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=29640 post #5

Have you checked "Task Manager" to see if anything is running at 100%. What I did was leave Task Manager running and watched to see who was taking cpu.