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Windows Update locks up computer

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Christer, 2007/09/19.

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  1. 2007/09/23
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I am waiting for the owner to buy a BackUp HDD and a mobile rack. I want to create backups prior to messing with the MBR and stuff but I will look into that as well.

    I compared the WindowsUpdate.log files. I have cut out the "not interesting" parts and the additional word in the respective file name, LockUp and NoLock, indicates which file is which. Both state "Success - Content Install - Installation Successful: Windows successfully installed the following update: Automatiska uppdateringar" but in the computer that locks up, either wups.dll or wups2.dll or both do not get updated (I did several tests with differing results).

    The computer locks up after "AU finished delayed initialization" but I don't know why. The next entry in the computer that does not lock up is "Created new random SusClientId ". Could it be a registry problem?

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #21
  2. 2007/09/26
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I updated BIOS to the most recent revision. I had set all RAID-functions to "disabled" (boots quicker) but some RAID functions were set back to "enabled" with the BIOS update. I also noticed that the previously missing information on memory mode (dual or single channel) appeared. I let the BIOS settings be as default and connected to the web.

    Windows Automatic Update does not seem to install the new Client. I waited for fifteen minutes, until well after wuauclt.exe went away from TaskManager.

    When I did a manual update session at Windows Update, the new Client was installed but like previously, it locked up the computer and the file wups.dll was not copied to C:\Windows\System32.

    Things left to try are the MBR fix and a reinstallation. For some reason, I doubt that it will be successful... :rolleyes: ... !

    (All RAID-functions have been set back to "disabled ".)

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #22


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  4. 2007/09/28
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I don't recall if I mentioned ... :confused: ... the below so here it comes:

    When the computer is rolled back to 2005-03, the file version of the Windows Update Agent files is 5.4.3790.2182 (most of them).

    Installing windowsupdateagent20-x86.exe off-line updates the files to version 5.8.0.2694. The computer works well afterwards (still off-line).

    Installing WindowsUpdateAgent30-x86.exe off-line updates all the files to version 7.0.6000.374 but the computer locks up (still off-line).

    If I do not install WindowsUpdateAgent30-x86.exe but go on-line with Windows Automatic Update enabled, it attempts to install version 7.0.6000.381 but not all files get updated and the computer locks up.

    I will compare my own computer with the one that gets messed up and try to find out what goes wrong.

    Yes ... :eek: ... I'm sick but I want to know. For some reason, I don't think a reinstallation is the fix!

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #23
  5. 2007/09/28
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    I enjoy similar challenges.

    I found it hard comparing those txt documents side by side, I would like to put them on dual screens, but I don't have that available. I also wonder if seeing the exact point of the problem occurring will tell you why it is happening. Obviously the two areas are hardware and software.

    Software, you have gone back to a basic OS, so this seems to rule out third party programs. You are still using images of the OS and not a fresh install, so there may be a problem with the Windows installation that is on all of the images.

    Hardware, the suggestions seem to have narrowed down to a possible problem with the MBR of the HDD (actually, we should say the Boot Sector of the HDD). I expect Windows Update, because it mainly deals with security, will be very "involved" with access to the HDD, the file system, etc., and maybe, the legitimacy of the Windows installation.

    Registry, maybe, I think you will have your work cut out finding the problem there. After any registry "fixes ", I feel surgery has been performed and keep looking for any glitches. If I find any glitches it is reformat time.

    I purchased an external USB drive case, which I am finding very handy. I have several spare drives, so I would just backup the data to a USB drive and then delete/zero format the boot sector. I would rebuild the partition information using the drive manufacturer's utilities (using third party software like Ghost or Partition Magic may leave you back where you started and you will expect that something else is the cause).

    If it is an OEM computer, watch out for hidden recovery drives. Mmm...possible source of the problem (don't remember if it has been discussed)? Ghosting with a recovery drive present might concern me.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
    #24
  6. 2007/09/28
    noahdfear

    noahdfear Inactive

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    Christer,

    After stopping the WU service, try installing that latest update package via the command line, adding the /wuforce switch.

    Assuming the package is on the desktop;

    net stop wuauserv

    "%userprofile%\Desktop\WindowsUpdateAgent30-x86.exe" /wuforce

    net start wuauserv
     
    noahdfear,
    #25
  7. 2007/09/29
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Matt,

    It is a home built BOAC (Box Of Assembled Components). A single hard disk with three partitions: C: - system, D: - data and E: - ghost images of C:.

    The owner has bought a second hard disk (and a mobile rack) to use as a backup drive. When I get the components, I will remove the current hard disk, install the new one and install XP SP2 (slipstreamed) from square one. If a "vanilla XP" (no Gigabyte drivers or any other drivers) doesn't work with Windows Update, then it must be hardware related but if so, more people running their computers on a GA-K8N Ultra-SLI must have problems, right?

    Dave,
    I have tried what you suggest and also reregistering the files (in Safe Mode) but it locks up (in Normal Mode), no matter what.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #26
  8. 2007/09/30
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I removed the original hard disk and installed the new hard disk. Booted from the XP-SP2 CD. Created a 40 GB primary partition for the system, formated NTFS and installed XP-SP2 (slipstreamed). When done, I changed the drive letters for the opticals from D: and E: to X: and Y: respectively. I created an extended partition with a single logical of the rest (120GB) and formated NTFS.

    Now, I had to install drivers for one of the NICs and I choose Marvell since it was a stand alone driver.

    I disabled Windows Automatic Update and went on-line to Windows Update. The ActiveX control installed and the new software too. A reboot and back to Windows Update. Now, three updates were downloaded and installed: WGA, MSI and Package Installer.

    A reboot and back to WU, eightytwo (yes, 82!) updates were offered but I didn't install any of them.

    It worked okey and now, I started installing the rest of the needed drivers. I installed them one by one and went back to WU to confirm that it still worked after each one:

    1) Marvell NIC drivers > installed OK > reboot > WU OK
    2) nVidia Chipset drivers (including the second NIC) > installed OK > reboot > WU OK
    3) RealTek sound drivers > installed OK > reboot > WU OK
    4) GeForce 6200 video drivers > installed OK > reboot > WU OK

    Now, the Device Manager had no more "yellow entries" but I continued to install:

    5) nVidia USB drivers > installed OK > reboot > WU OK
    6) nVidia IDE drivers > installed OK (optical devices and hard disk redetected) > reboot > the computer locked up!

    I have yet to do the complete reinstallation but it seems like the new Windows Update Client is conflicting with the nVidia IDE drivers. All drivers listed above (except the GeForce 6200 drivers which are on a separate CD) are pre-checked for installation when the Motherboard CD is autorun. I downloaded the latest motherboard drivers and they are pre-checked there too BUT when clicking to install, there is a warning that the system probably works fine without the nVidia IDE drivers and it is recommended to NOT install them.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #27
  9. 2007/09/30
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    mattman,
    #28
  10. 2007/09/30
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I usually try to avoid installing "branded" drivers as long as there are default Microsoft drivers that are working. If there is nothing "yellow" in the Task Manager, then there is no issue to fix. I don't remember why I installed these unnecessary nVidia IDE drivers but i learnt my lesson.

    Strangely, when I compare my own system, the updated Windows Update Agent does not install identically on my friends system but as long as it works, I won't be bothered by it.

    I didn't find the thread you mention. Maybe I'm too tired ... :p ... ?

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #29
  11. 2007/10/01
    yarddog1953

    yarddog1953 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Christer



    I was reading about your problem and I remembered an article I just read in the latest 'WINDOWS SECRETS Newsletter', i.e., Windows Secrets Newsletter "¢ Issue 124 "¢ 2007-09-27 In an article by Scott Dunn he outlines your problem. . . what you need to do is register those DLL files!

    I quote Scott:
    "Beginning in July, it is not possible for Windows users to install updates without first receiving the 7.0.6000.381 version of nine Windows Update support files. (See my Sept. 13 story for details.) If Automatic Updates is turned on, the .381 update will be installed automatically. If AU is not turned on, you'll be prompted to let Windows Update upgrade itself before you can installing any other updates. Consequently, users are forced to get the silent update before they can attempt to install Microsoft's latest security patches.

    The problem apparently arises because seven of the DLLs (dynamic link library files) used by WU fail to be registered with Windows. If files of the same name had previously been registered "” as happened when Windows Update upgraded itself in the past "” the new DLL files are registered, too, and no problem occurs. On a "repaired" copy of XP, however, no such registration has occurred, and failing to register the new DLLs costs Windows Update the ability to install any patches.

    Registering DLL files is normally the role of an installer program. Unlike previous upgrades to WU, however, Microsoft has published no link to an installer or a downloadable version of 7.0.6000.381. Strangely, there's no Knowledge Base article at all explaining the new version. The lack of a KB article (and the links that usually appear therein) makes it impossible for admins to run an installer to see if it would correct the registration problem.

    One possible fix is to install an older version of the Windows Update files (downloadable from Step 2 of Microsoft Knowledge Base article 927891) over the newer version. This involves launching the installer from a command line using a switch known as /wuforce.

    That corrects the registration problem, although even in this case you must still accept the .381 stealth update (again) before you can get any updates. The fact that the /wuforce procedure solves the problem suggests that the installer for .381 is the source of the bug.

    Manually registering files solves the problem

    If you find that Windows Update refuses to install most patches, you can register its missing DLLs yourself. This can be accomplished by manually entering seven commands (shown in Step 2, below) at a command prompt. If you need to run the fix on multiple machines, it's easiest to use a batch file, as Steps 1 through 5 explain:

    Step 1. Open Notepad (or any text editor).

    Step 2. Copy and paste the following command lines into the Notepad window (the /s switch runs the commands silently, freeing you from having to press Enter after each line):

    regsvr32 /s wuapi.dll
    regsvr32 /s wuaueng1.dll
    regsvr32 /s wuaueng.dll
    regsvr32 /s wucltui.dll
    regsvr32 /s wups2.dll
    regsvr32 /s wups.dll
    regsvr32 /s wuweb.dll

    Step 3. Save the file to your desktop, using a .bat or .cmd extension.

    Step 4. Double-click the icon of the .bat or .cmd file.

    Step 5. A command window will open, run the commands, and then close.

    The next time you visit the Windows Update site, you should not have any problem installing the latest patches. "

    Hope this helps :)
     
    yarddog1953,
    #30
  12. 2007/10/02
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    I had a look at the nVidia forums. They have a simplified forum search engine and terms like "IDE drivers" and "Windows Update" are too general.
    I was reading a thread about Gigabyte motherboards freezing, but it just seemed to lose momentum and stop (drivers not mentioned).

    Having drivers that are recommended not be installed seems strange (I think I remember seeing it before). I wonder under what circumstances you are expected to install them. There is no information at the Gigabyte download page.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
    #31
  13. 2007/10/02
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Hi yarddog1953!

    Thanks for your input but I tried reregistering the files a few days ago, didn't work. I subsequently isolated the problem to be a conflict with the nVidia IDE drivers. See post #27.

    Matt,
    the difference I notice is that the SATA hard disks are no longer detected as "removable devices" (hot swapable) with the icon in the Notification Area. For this specific hardware setup, it makes no difference other than the SATA in the mobile rack can not be turned on and off when the system is running. Well, I havent tried and now is the time if something should go wrong ... :rolleyes: ... ! Maybe an external SATA, connected via USB will still be hot swapable but I have none to test.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #32
  14. 2007/10/02
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I came to think of my USB memory stick. It gets detected and is hot swapable. Does that imply that an external SATA hard disk, connected via USB will be detected as hot swapable?

    As I understand it, there are SATA hard disks that ARE hot swapable and others that AREN'T but the Hitachis ARE hot swapable (I think).

    When the nVidia IDE driver was in the picture, I tried to stop the SATA (only one at that time) to be able to remove it. Windows wouldn't let me. I will install the nVidia IDE driver again and see if Windows will let me stop the SATA in the mobile rack (non system disk).

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #33
  15. 2007/10/02
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    After a few more tests, my conclusions are:

    Without the nVidia IDE driver, the SATA in the mobile rack must be powered on at bootup. Otherwise it will not be seen if powered on when the computer is up and running.

    With the nVidia IDE driver, the SATA in the mobile rack is hot swapable. It can be powered on and off at will and it gets detected with an accompanying "pling-plong ".

    By chance, I installed the nVidia IDE driver from the most recent setup file, downloaded from the Gigabyte site. When going to Windows Update, to my surprise ... :confused: ... it worked well and the computer did not lock up!

    I restored the Ghost Image and installed the nVidia IDE driver from the CD that was shipped with the motherboard. At first contact with Windows Update ... :p ... the computer locked up!

    Apparently, it is the original nVidia IDE driver that is the problem. The most recent version is not. I am reluctant to install the most recent version since I don't know what is "around the corner ". Maybe future incompatibilities are avoided without it? The only advantage is the hot swapable SATA in the mobile rack but ... :cool: ... do I have to tell the owner about it?

    I also copied the "warning text" and made my best effort to translate it to english (which probably makes it an english-swedish-english translation):

    The third paragraph is confusing. In BIOS, RAID (two different versions) were enabled and I choose to disable RAID (both versions) since it was not going to be used and it (disabling RAID) speeds up the boot process. I never tried to setup any RAID and maybe the nVidia IDE driver is a prerequisite for that.

    As you can see, there is no written warning but the last paragraph is as close as one gets.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #34
  16. 2007/10/04
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    You might find more information about that driver on the drivers CD for the motherboard. I couldn't see anything at the main nVidia website.

    Have you seen any drivers come with hot-swap hardware? I did a websearch for "hot swap drivers ", but since I have not used the hardware before I was not sure what I was to look for.

    So...it seems the IDE drivers add the capability to use the hot-swap drive. I would look around for another source of those drivers (the hot-swap hardware manufacturer's website?).

    Matt
     
    mattman,
    #35
  17. 2007/10/04
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Matt,
    thanks for your continued interest!

    The owner has picked up his computer which I had reinstalled and set up from square one. Even though the most recent nVidia IDE driver didn't SEEM TO be a problem, I played it safe and did not install it. The computer will never be RAIDed and I'm not sure that the driver in question is needed for RAIDing. I never told him that the driver would make the SATA in the mobile rack hot swapable and what he doesn't know - he won't miss. (Am I a bad guy ... :confused: ... ?)

    About hot swapable hard disks, I thought that this capability came with SATA-II but it is the old SATA-I that is in the mobile rack.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
    #36
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