Resolved Surge Protection?

My current Belkin is 11 years old. I'm thinking of replacing it--there is a nice model at Walmart's site for $25. Before I sink that much cash into a product that I will never directly interact with, I'm wondering if this surge protection is just hype or not.

What do you folks think?

 

Blackouts are such a rarity in my neck of the woods that I'm really not concerned about giving my computer an additional 15 mins of time to properly shut down.

Having said that--are the ones with the UPS good for more than one surge?

 

Those devices are scams. The effective surge protector - even 100 years ago - earthed a direct lightning strike and remains functional. Everyone knows these exist. Your telco switching center, connected to overhead wires all over town, suffers about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days after a thunderstorm? Never?

Telcos use protectors that costs less money that power strip protectors. And that remain functional after each surge.

Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Sell it for $25 or $150. That is the power strip protector that fails after one surge. Failure so that the naive will recommend it.

All appliances already contain any protection that the power strip might provide. Protector so robust that surges too small to harm appliances may also destroy a grossly undersized plug-in protector.

Your concern is the rare surge (maybe once every seven years) that can overwhelm appliance protection. Your concern is the surge that can destroy furnace, air conditioner, computers, dishwasher, and the most critical appliance during a surge - smoke detectors / fire alarm system.

Direct lightning strikes to street wires is a direct lightning strike to household appliances. One 'whole house' protector with the always required short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth means even direct lightning strikes harm nothing. Even the protector remains functional. And makes all lesser surges also irrelevant.

Only more responsible companies sell the well proven solution. Siemens, Square D, General Electric, Leviton, and Intermatic are but a few. An effective Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Not in the list of responsible companies are Belkin, Monster Cable, etc.

How to identify scam protectors. 1) It does not have the always required and dedicated connection short to earth ground. 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. Both points apply to Belkin products whose specs do not even claim surge protection.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. If a protector does not have a dedicated wire for a 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth, then where does energy dissipate? Destructively inside the building. Plug-in protectors have even earthed surges destructively via appliances.

Protection is always about energy harmlessly absorbed in earth. Not inside a building hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. How to identify the effective protector? A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Belkin will not even discuss it. Does not claim protection in its numeric specs.

 

View its spec numbers. A UPS typically claims 340 joules protection. That means it uses only 115 joules and never more than 230 joules in protection. Meanwhile surges that are destructive - that can actually overwhelm protection already inside every appliance - is hundreds of thousands of joules.

How does that hundred joules in a UPS absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. Near-zero protection means that UPS can claim 100% protection in its sales brochures.

Any protector that fails during one surge is a scam. These protectors are undersized to be damaged by a surge that cannot harm any appliance. Then the least technically informed will recommend that scam.

Effective protectors routinely earth a direct lightning strike - and remain functional. An effective protector means nobody knows a surge even existed. But that does not get the most technically ignorant to recommend it.

Listed were manufacturers who provided the only protector necessary. Then view numbers. A typical lightning strikes is 20,000 amps. Therefore a minimally sized 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Why? Because effective protectors even make direct lightning strikes irrelevant AND remains functional.

Somehow that UPS makes energy from direct lightning strikes magically disappear? That is what UPS spec numbers say. A 'whole house' protector is how it is done in every facility that cannot suffer damage.

 

Thanks, Arie. Some very good perspective on this.

 

Arie's articles were talking about a direct lighting strike. The chances of this are so low (I do live in southern California) that I'm not going to pay top-dollar to prevent any damage from a direct strike (keeping in mind the links that said that this is futile, anyways).

OK accepting the argument that it is futile to try to prevent damage from a direct strike; will the Belkin or APC surge protector protect me from a strike to a neighbor's house? Or from a spike by some other cause?

 

Belkin and APC do not claim to protect from typically destructive surges. It can only protect from a type of surge that typically does no damage. That is made irrelevant by protection already inside appliances. If it claims protection, then you can post spec numbers that list protection from each type of surge. And good luck. That is where your answer starts.

That is not a rhetorical question. Those who recommend Belkin, et al will never post spec numbers. Those spec numbers do not exist. No polite way around this conclusion. One either knows from numbers or is lying due to education only from advertising.

Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Sell it in a grocery store for $7. Same circuit from Belkin or APC costs $25 or $80. A profit center; not protection. About 70% of us will recommend that profit center only because it says 'surge protection' on its box. It says near-zero protection in its specs. But 70% will fear to view numbers. Therefore it can claim 100% surge protection in sales brochures. And yes, that is legal.

See that big buck warranty? If everyone learned before knowing, then everyone would point to exemption after exemption. Warranty will never be honored. But 70% of us know only what we are told to believe. 70% ignore the fine print. 70% only see a big buck warranty number. That is proof of surge protection? That is what 70% will 'know'.

When selling a $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts for $25 or $150, then important is to keep 70% from reading spec numbers. Yes, that APC or Belkin selling for $80+ is still the same protector described as $2.99 from Home Depot. Don't take my word for it. View manufacturer spec numbers. They have similar numbers because they are the same circuit with vastly different retail prices. Selling the same circuit for more money, to 70%, means higher quality.

Reality from free market experience. Products with biggest warranties are inferior. GM has the industry’s best warranty. Therefore GM cars must be superior to Honda? Of course not. Historically, a larger warranty indentifies the worst products: From Ralph Architzel in the newsgroup alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt entitled "UPS Systems.. " :
> True - several years ago I put faith in Curtis's warrantee on a surge suppressor
> for attached equipment replacement. Then lightning struck (paid extra to get o unit
> with lightning protection)and ruined my computer's power supply ($95 repair) and
> the suppressor itself. After 4 or 5 rounds of letters; certifications of a lighting
> strike on the power line by the utility etc; they finally agreed to fix the suppressor
> and nothing else.

If he had a surge, then he had no damage. Both appliance and protector undamaged. But it had a big buck warranty and was recommended using knowledge from advertising. So both were damaged. Even the Computer Wizard demonstrates near zero if any electrical knowledge. It has a big buck warranty. A first indication of inferior products with obscene profit margins.

So how does its hundreds of joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Again, not a rhetorical question. And a question that 70% will ignore to avoid reality.

All appliances contain massive internal protection. Your concern is a rare surge that will overwhelm protection inside appliances: hundreds of thousands of joules. A surge too small to damage any appliance, instead, destroys the plug-in protector (only hundreds of joules). Did you view those spec numbers yet? Why not? Without numbers, you can only be deceived.

A surge too small to harm any appliance, instead, destroys the plug-in protector. So the technically naive recommend it. They cannot recommend an earthed "˜whole house’ protector. Effective protection means nobody even knew a surge existed. The most naïve will only recommend the grossly undersized protector.

Electronics atop the Empire State Building suffer 23 direct strikes annually without damage. Atop the WTC, it was 40 without damage. Routine is to have direct lightning strikes without damage.
> Your telco switching center, connected to overhead wires all over town, suffers about 100 surges
> with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days
> after a thunderstorm? Never?

Why direct lightning strikes without damage? In every high reliability facility, 'whole house' protectors are connected short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth ground. No plug-in protectors are used. They want protection - not enrich Belkin or APC. They need protection; not a scam.

Posted was one solution every homeowner installs so that no surge - not even lightning - causes damage. That solution is $1 per protected appliance. Any money wasted on a plug-in protector is best redirected into the only thing that provides protection - single point earth ground. Again, what costs tens or 100 times less money? The effective solution that was used even 100 years ago.

Why do telcos want their protector located up to 50 meters separated from electronics? Separation increases protection "“ for obvious engineering reasons. How often does your home suffer 100 surges with each thunderstorm. It does not. Spend tens or 100 times less money for one 'whole house' protector so that surge damage does not happen even to the protector. Or were they dumb 100 years ago when even direct lightning strikes did not cause damage?

So where are those spec numbers from Belkin and APC? Not some URL. Each spec provided digit by digit with words that say why each number is significant. The naïve 70% cannot and will not do that. Informed consumers are learning why surges "“ even direct lightning strikes "“ are routinely averted.

The least expensive solution makes all surges - even direct lightning strikes or stray cars dropping 13,000 volt onto your home wires - irrelelvant.

 

It is a common misconception that you need an UPS only when blackouts are a concern - this is perhaps, because an UPS is often called a "battery backup ". But the facts are, backup power during a power outage is only the icing on the cake. It is the voltage regulation a good UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation) provides full time that is the bread and butter here.

Surge and Spike protectors are little more than expensive extension cords. It is important to note that with every surge and spike, there is a corresponding sag and dip. S&S protectors do nothing for low voltage events, forcing the regulator circuits in the power supplies and motherboards to compensate (with more heat as an unwanted byproduct).

Once a S&S protector takes a good hit, it should be replaced - it did its job - the components within cannot take repeated big blows. Batteries, however, can, with ease! So a good UPS w/AVR uses "smart" electronics to monitor and simply dump the excess voltage into the batteries, which eat it up like candy. There's no "smart" electronics in S&S strips. MOVs are dumb - effective at chopping (clamping) off the tops (excess) of the sinewave, but that's it.

And on low voltage events, sags (opposite of surges), dips (opposite of spikes) or brownouts (long term sags), the UPS with AVR uses the batteries to boost the power back up to normal. Something no S&S can do.

Note that EVERY time the AC, microwave, toaster, coffee pot, water cooler, refrigerator, or any other high wattage device cycles on or off, surges, spikes, dips and sags are sent down the line. These constantly beat on the PSU and computer regulator circuits and devices. Appliances can fail too. And if you live in an apartment complex, your risk is compounded by all your neighbors too. Who knows what they may plug into the wall.

A good UPS w/AVR regulates the voltage feeding your hardware good, clean, stable power. The output voltage after the S&S protector has clamped down on it can be ugly - and hard on sensitive, high speed electronics.

Note that I use an APC 1500VA UPS w/AVR and it is covering this Core i7 computer with a decent graphics card, 8Gb of RAM, two 22" LCD monitors, a wireless router, cable modem, Ethernet switch, inkjet printer, PDA hotsync cradle, and the phone. I live in east Nebraska, within "Tornado Alley ". Severe weather is not uncommon. Complete power outages are rare, but do happen - more often by a squirrel forgetting to let go of one wire before grabbing the other - but my UPS will hold my computer and network up for 30 + minutes. The lights flicker more often than completely go out during storms - of course millions of CPU clock cycles could occur during the time span of a flicker - but a flicker is more than enough to cause a hard crash too. When is a hard crash good?

All it takes is one hard crash to kill a computer. A good UPS w/AVR is the best insurance you can get to prevent any power anomaly from causing one - with the exception of a direct lightning strike.

 

OK, I won't bother getting the traditional surge protector. I'll price out a UPS and see if it makes sense for me to get one. I've obviously been without good protection and haven't had any computers or peripherals simply stop working on me, but there's always tomorrow.

Thanks for clearing this stuff up.

 

Sounds like a plan. And if you have a big chunk of money in a big screen TV or home theater audio system, think about an UPS or two there as well.

 

And that voltage regulation is done by same circuits (typically better designed) inside every electronic appliance.

How often do incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity? And even when bulbs are at 50% intensity, that is ideal power to every electronic appliance. It is called AVR. It already exists inside electronic appliances. It makes AC voltage variations irrelevant do that incandescent bulbs are 50% intensity is normal AC power to electronics.

Voltages can drop so low as to be harmful to the refrigerator, washing machine, and air conditioner. And that is perfectly ideal voltage to all electronics because AVR is already inside electronics.

Meanwhile, only the most expensive UPSes - many hundreds of dollars - do that AVR. A typical UPS is only a relay. Relay connects the appliance directly to AC mains - not even any protector device in series. Or a relay connects the appliance to battery power. That's it.

As for surge protection - again, read the manufacturer's specs. The protector circuit in a UPS is the same protector circuit found in power strip protectors. Except the UPS circuit is typically much smaller - fewer joules. Don't take anyone's word for it. Read the manufacturer spec numbers.

Any protector that is damaged by a surge is completely ineffective. But then that knowledge has been understood by we who do this stuff - even 100 years ago. One 'whole house' protector is installed so that even direct lightning strikes do not harm the protector. Myths say protectors must be replaced because a majority buy ineffective protectors. An ineffective protector so grossly undersized to fail. That failure gets the naive to recommend it. Only ineffective (high profit) protectors fail.

One 'whole house' protector is not recommended by the naive because the effective protector means nobody even knew a surge existed. The effective protector even earths a direct lightning strike - and remains functional. The naive could not recommend it without damage.

Again, numbers that others did not provide. Could not provide. A direct lightning strike is typically 20,000 amps. So the minimal 'whole house' protector (ie selling in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50) is rated for 50,000 amps. 50,000 amps means the direct lightning strike is earthed - and the protector is undamaged. But that means the naive cannot recommend. The naive can only recommend a protector when it is so grossly undersized as to require replacement.

Another myth: low voltage harms a supply. A lie. International design standards even 40 years ago describe dips, brownouts, and sags with this phrase in capital letters: No Damage Region. How can this be when a majority ‘know’ low voltage is destructive? Low voltage is harmful to motorized appliances (ie refrigerator). Low voltage is so ideal to electronics that we sometimes design in a circuit to create low voltages on power up. And power off is nothing more than along period of low voltage. But then only one here actually designed this stuff.
Damage due to low voltage is an urban myth. If low voltage is destructive, then which part is harmed by that low voltage? Never said. Urban myths never come with such details. That would require learning how electricity works.

Where is AVR performed? A superior AVR circuit is already inside electronics appliances. But again, don’t take my word for it. Even manufacturer spec numbers say AVR already exists. That is what every power supply is required by international design standards to do. Same myths will also confuse spikes (high voltages) with sags and blackouts (no voltage). Confusion only possible when hearsay replaces reality.

UPS serves only one function. Provide temporary power during blackouts. When incandescent lights dim to less than 50% intensity, appliance is still powered normally. Other functions (ie spike protection) exist - and are near zero. See spec numbers. Only those who are trained by sale brochures and hearsay would promote a near zero protector into 100% surge protection. That is what retail sales is all about. Lies increase profits.

There is no kind way to expose such overt lies - such as power loss causing hardware damage. UPS has only one function - provide temporary power.

 

Sorry, but that is totally incorrect. 50% is ideal?? Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about - you are also mixing AC and DC supplies. At any rate, the ideal is the rated voltage, not 50% of it.

 

I am not mixing anything. And you are not reading what I posted. Please reread with engineering care.

If you know different numbers, then you posted those numbers. Show us why that cannot be true. Calling someone wrong iwithout numeric specs is how the naive post insults. Where are your numbers?

Intel ATX specs say a computer must work - and even startup up with a full load - when an incandescent bulb is at 40% intensity. If you dispute this reality, then post numbers that prove otherwise. Claiming it is wrong only because you say so is equivalent to demeaning.

Also explains the myth about power loss causing hardware damage. Again the challenge. If you know international design standards (even 40 years ago) are wrong, then you have listed specific components destroyed by low voltage. Or quoted numbers from those design standards that define damage. Why does one standard define all low voltages as the "No Damage Region� Why does one of us read those specs to know this stuff?

An informed tech posts facts and numbers to prove the point. A claim without such citations is classic junk science. Or nothing more than a slur of others who learn before knowing something. Where are your numbers?

So where are your numbers that dispute the 50% incandescent intensity? Its not hard. Numbers are available even in manufacturer specs. Where are your numbers?

 

You make ridiculous statements without any supporting evidence then expect me to prove you wrong. How about providing some supporting evidence yourself? Show us where a GE oven, or Black and Decker coffee pot has "Automatic Voltage Regulation" circuitry. For certainly, if they did, it would be something they would brag about and advertise - and charge more for. Or do you suggest it is so common, there is not a need to advertise?

You claim AVR is inside all electronics and, in fact, you claim there are better designed regulation circuits in every appliance! Hogwash!!!!!!

Oh? Show us!!!!!!

The ATX Form Factor Standard says NOTHING of the sort!!!! Demeaning? It's a stupid statement! In fact, it is flat out falsehood you clearly just made up! Demeaning? You did that to yourself.

You need to step back INTO reality and get a grip, and STOP MAKING THINGS UP THEN EXPECT US TO BELIEVE IT!!! The ATX Form Factor Standard for Power Supplies, in Section 3.1, page 9 says ABSOLUTELY nothing of the sort of claim you say. In fact it CLEARLY says the following,

90/115 = 78.2% - no where near 40 or even 50% like you falsely claim. And it says NOTHING about ANY incandescent bulbs, and it certainly says nothing about 40% of anything. Don't make up stuff, westom!!!!! And don't talk to us about reading the standards when CLEARLY, you have not!

You cannot compare a DC switching power supply with a light bulb! That's ridiculous!!! A light bulb is an AC device that contains nothing more than a filament - a big fat resistor type device that gets hot and glows - or are you going to claim a light bulb uses AVR too?

This is 7th grade Intro to Basic Electronics stuff here. Common sense says you are wrong. You can run a light bulb at 50% power because it is a simple AC device - a wire that gets hot when current is run through it. A DC switching PSU is not a simple AC device. It is an AC to DC converter, among other things that feeds sensitive, high speed digital electronics.

I did not say the standards are wrong. I said you are. And please, tell us about digital electronics from 40 years ago.

And for the record, I did not say low voltage events damage anything. I said,

 

Good. Now this is where I again demonstrate who graduated from schools that teach science. And who instead graduated from the Rush Limbaugh school of Insults and Demeaning Comments.

What is an incandescent lamp intensity when 120 VAC drops to 90 VAC? The math is quite simple - an exponential relationship to the power of 3.5. When AC mains drop to 90 VAC, then an incandescent bulb is at 36.5% intensity.

And because only one is educated, then that one can cite the source: IES Handbook. light bulb industry bible.

How often do AC mains voltage drop to 90 VAC? Well, how often do your incandescent light bulbs dim to 36.5% intensity? Virtually never. That means every computer is working uninterrupted.

Electronics must operate normal and ideal even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Why do AC mains vary so much when Bill posts myths? Why do AC mains not vary when we watch our light bulbs? Because voltage drops exceeding 5% are potentially harmful to motorized appliances such as refrigerators and the furnace. Utilities maintain voltage regulation so as to not harm appliances that are at risk - motorized appliances.

Only the most electrically uninformed post incendiary attacks to mask a lack of education. His repeated attacks and no electrical knowledge justifies my defending myself in this harsh manner. Those who post with his attitude are often only repeating what they were ordered to believe. Often have knowledge from little if any education.

Neither the power strip protector nor that UPS provide hardware protection. Those devices are recommended typically by people who magically know low voltage causes electronics damage. Know because that is what he was told he must believe.

For the OP: your best hardware protection is one 'whole house' protector from responsible manufacturers. So that protection already inside all appliances is not overwhelmed. Companies such as General Electric, Square D, Siemens, Intermatic, Polyphaser, Kieson, Leviton, or the Cutler-Hammer solution that sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. You see, only a minority are engineers who learn the technology. Who post after learning how electricity works. Who need not post insults in the Rush Limbaugh tradition.

A computer that will work at 90 VAC means it is working when incandescent bulbs are at 37% intensity. A+ Certified computer techs need no electrical knowledge to pass the tests. So many computer experts have virtually no electrical knowledge. Therefore must post slurs in every post.

 

It is clear, Sir you are not a student of electronics, and/or you don't understand what AVR, in relation to a good UPS, does. Plus, you just aren't listening. You can click on the link in my name and see if I am qualified to talk electronics or not, I don't care. But here's the way it is, then I am no longer discussing this with you.

I am not disputing your facts about incandescent lights. But I don't care what happens with an incandescent light. I have NONE plugged into any of my UPS, and as a matter of fact, I don't have one incandescent light, nor have I ever had any incandescent lights in any computer I have been responsible for - and I've been working computers and electronics for a long time. Not 40 years, but getting there.

However, I do care what happens to my computer and PSU, AND my monitors, my network equipment, and my home theater equipment and my big screen TV. And so all are on good UPS with AVR.

Say's who? This is more stuff you are just making up. What's up with that? Here's why that's BS:

(1) There's no way any electronics maker is going to let any light bulb maker dictate their operating range for all their products. Who do think writes the standards?
(2) There's no standard that says what the intensity of EVERY incandescent bulb must be for a given wattage! Next time you are at the store, read the lumens for all the 100W bulbs. They will all be different.
(3) Everybody knows light bulbs get dimmer with age.

Come on! We are talking about sophisticated AC to DC power supplies, not light bulbs.

And "ideal "? Nothing works ideally in extreme conditions. Just because something is capable of working there, does not mean it will work ideally, nor does it mean it will have a normal lifespan.

And excuse me, but you are sadly misinformed if don't think there are MANY low voltage events - all the time. Ask an audiophile. And sorry, but if think the power company's regulation extends down to the voltages in your house, you are mistaken. In the real scheme of things, visible flickers are long outages! At least when it comes to high-speed electronics - not what I'd call incandescents. Most events are too fast to see.

Have you ever lived in Nebraska? Ever heard of thunderstorms? We get them here. Often. They have lightning and strong winds that strike transformers and blow down trees, poles and wires. Often.

The reality is there are surges, spikes, dips and sags all the time. And many, if not most, come from within your building - beyond the reach of the power company's regulators. And the reality is power supplies and regulators circuits are designed to handle most normal ones. But that in no way implies it handles every one of them with aplomb and ease. Car engines are designed to run up to red line too, and breaks are meant to be leaned on. But that does not mean they can take repeated abuse and live a normal life. And clearly, the car would not be running "ideally" at those extremes either.

Electronics age, just like anything else - the heat we feel is from friction caused by electrons - that's wear and tear. Like cars, and just about anything else, no two are exactly alike, and one will fail before the other. And while uncommon, it is not unheard of a failing device taking out another by sending excessive voltages down the line.

A flicker? Remember a flicker is still the full power crashing in, BANG, BANG, BANG in less than a second (60 opportunities every second). All it takes is one. And if you have not backed up your data lately...

Will it happen? I don't know! But a good UPS with AVR is the best insurance against it. It will buffer all your hardware from excess voltage, not just the computer. And a good UPS with AVR won't just chop off the top, but send a good sinewave along too. And for low voltage events, it will use the batteries to boost the power back up to normal - something no S&S can do. And all this regulation is important because if not cleaned up, that dirty work is passed along to the other regulator devices in the PSU and motherboard, which must work harder to clean up the voltage, thus generating heat. More heat means faster aging.

Attacks? No. Just calling for the truth here. No sensible person is going to accept that electronics will run "ideally ", let alone at all, if the line voltage drops to 50%. Yet you continue to insist it will because a light bulb will stay lit. This after I showed you where the ATX standard proved otherwise.

Every computer should be on a good UPS with AVR - unless of course, nothing ever happens to you.

 

Incandescent lamp anywhere and everywhere in the house demonstrates the need for a UPS. No dimming because voltage does not drop that low. Incandescent light bulbs show every consumer that low voltage fears and myths are bogus.

Low voltage: 90 VAC is an incandescent bulb at less than 40% intensity - not 78% intensity that so many assume. 78% demonstrates how so many know before learning facts and numbers. The engineer with well over 40 years experience provided numbers and conclusions only after learning the technology.

So you learned something new. Good. When incandescent bulb is at 50% intensity, all electronics have completely normal voltages due to AVR already inside every electronic appliance. As you noted, all computers must start up and run normally even when 120 VAC is 90 volts. Why. Because AVR exists inside computers. Meanwhile every consumer can learn (view his light bulbs) how often voltage drops that low. Virtually never. Either voltage is perfectly ideal. Or the utility cuts off power. UPS does nothing. AVR exists inside electronics. UPS solves a problem that does not exist.

If utility voltage drops too low (ie bulbs at 50% intensity), then AC utility cuts off power to not damage motorized (less robust) appliances (refrigerator, dishwasher, air conditioner, etc). Just another reason why low voltage is not a problem.

A 120 volt computer in 1970s was required to withstand up to 600 volts without damage. Today that numbers is thousands of volts. More numbers from international design standards. All electronics are required to be that robust. What protection does any and every appliance need? That solution is to earth one 'whole house' protector. A solution that costs about $1 per protected appliance. No UPS claims to protect from the typically destructive transient. Only a "˜whole house’ solution does that protection.

Another myth - that low voltage (ie a flicker) causes hardware damage. OK. You claim to know electronics? Then post the component datasheet that defines damage from low voltage. You made the claim. Where are your numbers? Even supplies many generations older "“ even when I was working vacuum tube power supplies - were not harmed by those mythically destructive events.

Little hint. One criteria in design is to lower voltage to see how low AC voltage can drop befor the appliance powers off. We do this test routinely. If damage ever occured (and it never does), then the product could never be sold. Low voltage must never cause electronics damage.

We are discussing AC to DC power supplies. Designs that had to be superior to what we did with vacuum tubes. Refined and redesigned so many times over so many decades that massive protection and numerous functions are performed by so few parts. Today's supplies are required to be even better. Even back then, low voltage could not damage any supply or its attached electronics.

So what does the UPS do? Provides temporary power so that unsaved data can be saved. None of those electrical anomalies cause hardware damage. UPS does not protect from something that causes no damage. The anomaly that can cause hardware damage (even if using a UPS) is why informed consumers earth a 'whole house' protector - that costs about $1 per protected appliance. A superior solution also costs tens or 100 times less money.

Anybody in Nebraska with lightning and other wind generated transients has no business using appliances without an earthed 'whole house' protector. Or is damage acceptable? Damage that a UPS cannot and does not claim to protect from.

The informed consumer installs a "˜whole house’ protector with earthing that both meets and exceeds post 1990 code requirements. Essential for all electronic protection - including the GFCIs in a bathroom and electronics in a stove.

 

No. That statement is bogus and why this conversation is now pointless. I say once again, flickers are long duration outages - when it comes to high speed electronics - followed by full power returns, in rapid succession. There are 100s of low voltage events that occur too rapidly for the human eye to see - but are plenty long enough to disrupt digital electronics.

Now that statement simply demonstrates a total ignorance and a lack of understanding. First, transients from outside the home are but one, and certainly not the only source of power anomalies. And secondly, Nebraska is but one State located in Tornado Alley, which is only one region with severe weather, or unreliable power. There are 10s of millions of people who live in these areas and westom would have them all - including those living in apartment buildings apparently, buy whole house protection.

You obsession with whole house protection is misplaced. Sure, it can help with a nearby lightning strike, but that is only part of the danger. Whole house protection PROVIDES ZERO PROTECTION for your sensitive devices from other high wattage devices in the house (or adjacent apartments) from sending damaging transients down the line, or disruptive drop outs. I suppose in your world, high wattage appliances never fail and never create power anomalies on their own? Circuit breakers never pop? Kids don't stick foreign objects in outlets?

And who is perpetrating this myth? NOT ME so stop trying to insinuate I am. I seriously don't understand why you continue this naive defense. Do you sell whole house protection or something? A PSU encountering an extreme, long duration low voltage event will simply shutdown. Now tell us, westom, what can happen to data if a hard drive suddenly loses power during a write? How will whole house protection, which does NOTHING for low voltage events, prevent that?

How many computers contain data that is more valuable than the hardware? Mine sure does. Even with a current backup, lost productively during the down and restoration time may be unacceptible - and more expensive than a good UPS w/AVR.

A flicker is not just a low voltage event, it is as I said above,

I NEVER said low voltage events damage hardware. I said it causes the regulator circuits to work harder to compensate for the anomalies, which generates heat, and it is heat that ages, and ultimately destroys. And it certainly can cause data corruption. That said, I disagree that low voltage events are harmless, and I contend they can, in some cases, cause damage as stressed components attempt to compensate.

So, BECAUSE whole house protection does not provide FULL protection from damaging anomalies from ALL sources, all computers should be on a good UPS with AVR. Of course don't take my word on it - let me Google that for you. And please, if you can find anybody who agrees with you that (1) UPS are worthless, and (2) whole house lightning protection is all anybody needs, post a link. I will be happy to read it.