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Resolved RAM or motherboard problem?

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Christer, 2010/10/20.

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  1. 2010/11/17
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    Probably yes. But RAM modules are very sensitive devices - easily destroyed by ESD (electro-static discharge) at potentials smaller than human awareness, or by bad PSUs. If he is willing to risk damaging in his RAM, he should be willing the allow the less risky task of swapping in his PSU. That's just looking at it from the least risky perspective.
     
    Bill,
    #81
  2. 2010/11/17
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I took the same precautions when working on both builds. An anti-static mat and a wrist band connected to the nearest ground point. The subsequent "excessive" handling of my modules has actually bothered me.

    If he accepts, I'll probably nick the whole computer and can make the decision when the time comes. The earliest opportunity will be next weekend (nov 26-28).

    Yes, I too believe in "risk management ". With my mat and wrist band I believe I'm pretty safe but one never knows.
     
    Christer,
    #82


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  4. 2010/11/17
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Hypothetical scenario:

    I swap PSU's. I still have cold start problems.

    What have I proved? That my RAM is bad!

    What have I not proved? If my PSU is bad as well and may have damaged the RAM!

    I swap the PSU's back. I get new RAM and fry them with my bad PSU ... :p ... !

    (This is starting to "get at me" and a joke may revive my spirit. This weekend, from friday to sunday, I'll be away from home and can hopefully forget about it for the duration.)
     
    Christer,
    #83
  5. 2010/11/17
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    Not necessarily that your RAM is bad, just not compatible. But you prove that your PSU is good, and that is significant, IMO.
     
    Bill,
    #84
  6. 2010/11/17
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Corsair say it's compatible and the "same" kit works in other builds based on the "same" hardware (according to my friend and Gigabyte GTS).

    At first, I didn't follow your logic. I "remembered" that you suspected that my PSU might have damaged the RAM but rereading the most recent posts, I found that you didn't.

    You wrote:

    and
    which I got mixed up in my memory (the teflon coated one in my brain). Now, I'm with you!

    However, the shop has offered to lend me a Kingston kit to test. I don't want Kingston but why not accept their offer?

    About compatibility, I've read a few reviews, mostly at Newegg. The negative reviews were in most cases made good after RMA-ing the bad kits. I believe that people are more eager to report failures than successes and there's one guy who had to RMA twice before receiving a good kit.
     
    Christer,
    #85
  7. 2010/11/18
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    You are talking theory vs. real-world. I know Corsair says it "should" work, but that does not mean every single stick will. Until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, each module, each chip on each module, will have slight differences in their electrical characteristics and how each adheres to the "standard ". And with 8 - 16 chips on each module, those differences add up to slight differences for the entire module. This applies to each motherboard too.

    That's great! And for the record, there's nothing wrong with Kingston. They've been making quality RAM for years. It's guaranteed for life too, after all, and that means something in my book.

    You are right - happy people don't complain. And while I buy a great deal from Newegg, I don't like their user review process. Note that electronics (if no mechanical element) tends to be very reliable and provide years of service. If they are to fail, most fail the first time they are powered up, or shortly thereafter. That is why ALL computer makers used to "burn in" (run 24 - 72 hour stress tests) all their computers to "shake out" any that might fail. The same thing was done with each and every CPU, RAM module, etc. But due to improvements in production of raw materials and manufacturing techniques, there were fewer and fewer failures and the costs to run burn-ins (labor, storage, etc). were just too much, costing us all. So now manufacturers test a small sample, then ship the whole lot accepting the small, typically less than <1%, expected failure rate.

    User review administrators, like those at Newegg, prod buyers to write their reviews even before they receive the product. And since electronics, if bad, tend to fail when brand new, frustrated new buyers are more likely to write a bad review. Happy buyers are more likely to play with their new toy and not write a good review.

    So I don't pay much attention to user reviews unless many reviews are reporting the same problem, indicating a trend. And "didn't work" is not a valid criteria for a bad review - I want to see specifics. Most users are not professional reviewers, technicians, or even experienced with that type product. Most users do not have a host of competitive products to compare with. For example, a person with a bad experience with one Epson printer may report that Epson makes bad printers.

    I wish Newegg would come back 6 months after the purchase, then ask buyers what they think of the product.
     
    Bill,
    #86
  8. 2010/11/24
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I've been away from home and have not had time to carry out tests in all slot/module combinations. Tests on BIOS F5a:

    Dual channel, slots/modules 1A + 3B
    Memtest86+ v4.10
    Memory: 4094 M - 4601 MB/s
    Settings: RAM: 666 MHz (DDR1333) / CAS: 9-9-9-24 / DDR3 (64 bits)
    Cold start errors. Reboot - errors. Power off > Restart - no errors.
    CPU-Z
    DRAM Frequency 669.7 MHz, Command Rate (auto in BIOS) 1T

    Single module, slot/module 1A
    Memtest86+ v4.10
    Memory: 2046 M - 3981 MB/s
    Settings: RAM: 666 MHz (DDR1333) / CAS: 9-9-9-24 / DDR3 (64 bits)
    No cold start errors.
    CPU-Z
    DRAM Frequency 669.7 MHz, Command Rate (auto in BIOS) 1T

    Single module, slot/module 1B
    Memtest86+ v4.10
    Memory: 2046 M - 4089 MB/s
    Settings: RAM: 666 MHz (DDR1333) / CAS: 9-9-9-24 / DDR3 (64 bits)
    No cold start errors.
    CPU-Z
    DRAM Frequency 669.7 MHz, Command Rate (auto in BIOS) 1T

    Single module, slot/module 3A
    Memtest86+ v4.10
    Memory: 2046 M - 3981 MB/s
    Settings: RAM: 200 MHz (DDR400) / CAS: 9-9-9-24 / DDR3 (64 bits)
    Cold start errors. Reboot - errors. Power off > Restart - no errors.
    CPU-Z
    DRAM Frequency 669.7 MHz, Command Rate (auto in BIOS) 1T

    Single module, slot/module 3B
    Memtest86+ v4.10
    Memory: 2046 M - 3981 MB/s
    Settings: RAM: 200 MHz (DDR400) / CAS: 9-9-9-24 / DDR3 (64 bits)
    No cold start errors.
    CPU-Z
    DRAM Frequency 669.7 MHz, Command Rate (auto in BIOS) 1T

    Running a single module, each works fine in slot 1 but the transfer rates differ. In slot 3, module A gives errors but module B works fine.

    In slot 1, Memtest86+ v4.10 reports the RAM as 666 MHz (DDR1333) but ... :confused: ... in slot 3 as 200 MHz (DDR400). A BIOS issue? A bug in Memtest86+ v4.10? (CPU-Z reports 669.7 MHz in both slots.)
     
    Christer,
    #87
  9. 2010/11/26
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Yesterday, I posted the first results using Kingston KVR1333D3N9/2G but ... :confused: ... the post is gone. I don't know what I did to make that happen.

    Anyway, two days ago, I fitted two 2 GB modules, dual channel in slots 1+3. It is not a matched pair, just two modules off the shelf. The first cold start (thursday morning) was without errors and Memtest86+ v4.10 was running for twelve hours. This morning the second cold start was without errors, Memtest86+ v4.10 still running.

    My conclusion is that one of the TW3X4G1333C9A modules is defective.

    The question is if I should keep the Kingstons or get a new pair of Corsairs? I like the Corsairs better because they are more robust (the heat spreader). I was worried that I would break the Kingstons when I put them in ... :p ... !
     
    Christer,
    #88
  10. 2010/11/26
    hawk22

    hawk22 Geek Member

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    My Athlon II X2 and Gigabyte board DDR2 just go hand in hand with the G.Skill Ram love it.
     
    hawk22,
    #89
  11. 2010/11/26
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    As I said above, there's nothing wrong with Kingston RAM. And while heatspreaders can help with cooling, so can good front-to-back air flow through the case.

    If me, I don't think I would try Corsairs again on that motherboard - at the very least least not the same models numbers or line. I've been using Mushkin RAM lately and have been very happy with it. And of course, there's Crucial.
     
    Bill,
    #90
  12. 2010/11/26
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    hawk22,
    thanks for the tip but G.Skill is a stranger in Sweden!

    Bill,
    I've used Kingston on earlier builds and have not had any problems.

    I'm a stubborn sucker, though and I have not yet abandoned Corsair for the current build. They work for my friend on the same hardware and also for Gigabyte GTS for their tests on the same hardware.
     
    Christer,
    #91
  13. 2010/11/27
    hawk22

    hawk22 Geek Member

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    Hi Christer, here is a link, you are about to be introduced to G.Skill in Sweden.
    cheers
    hawk22
     
    hawk22,
    #92
  14. 2010/11/28
    hawk22

    hawk22 Geek Member

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    hawk22,
    #93
  15. 2010/11/28
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Thanks hawk22!
     
    Christer,
    #94
  16. 2010/12/10
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I have received a new kit TW3X4G1333C9A. I fitted the modules in slot 1 and slot 3 running in dual channel. Tuesday to Thursday, I have done three coldstarts, running Memtest86+ v4.10 for ~12 hours without errors. Today after the fourth coldstart, still no problems.

    What have I learnt?

    1) What appears to be logical (to me), leading to RMA-ing the motherboard, may not be correct.

    2) If substituting components when being clueless ... :eek: ... be lazy and start with the one easiest to get at ... :cool: ... !

    Bill,
    the reputation of Gigabyte is not only restored but enhanced due to their superb support on this matter!

    FYI: I've posted a followup question over at the Corsair forums.
     
    Christer,
    #95
    lj50 likes this.
  17. 2010/12/10
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    That's great. I've been sold on them for a long time, and that was reinforced a couple years ago when they replaced free-of-charge a 3 1/2 year old (6 months out of warranty) board that had leaky caps. They even paid shipping.
     
    Bill,
    #96
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