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Primary/secondary dual fifo drivers for Win98 SE

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by mossman, 2004/01/23.

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  1. 2004/01/23
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    I have a new Chaintech 9PJL3 which has the Intel 865 PE
    + ICH5 chipset. The computer is set to dual boot Win98SE
    and windows 2000. In windows 2000 when the system starts all devices work and I used the factory CD to install
    the chipset drivers. In Windows 98SE the CD is not auto
    starting but can be accessed from my computer. When
    I try to install the chipset drivers the setup goes part way and brings up an error message that a file in Windows temp
    can not be installed. System devices shows me 2 Ultra ATA
    with a primary and secondary 82801 dual fifo for each with
    an error that the drivers are not installed or are wrong.
    Emailed Chaintech and Intel to request support but got
    only an auto reply from Chaintech saying wait. The intel
    site and multiple others point to an update infinst for the chipset which does not work. README specifically says it is
    target for ICH4 . In any event without the correct IDE ATA
    drivers CD does not work and Win98SE will not shut down or restart. I really need a solution. Thanks
     
  2. 2004/01/24
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Hi m,

    I would go to the Chaintech website and find the latest 98 drivers for your M/B (you are certain that is the model number of your board?).
    Boot into Safe Mode and check in Add/Remove Programs and remove any references to the motherboard hardware. Go to Device Manager and remove the listings.
    Reboot to Safe Mode again and run the installation of the new drivers.

    Luck
    Matt
     

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  4. 2004/01/24
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thank you for your post. Chaintech site shows only the current drivers and bios as this is first release. I can find no others except the incorrect list from Intel itself or sites like Download.com or Drivers hq which as I said point to WRONG /incompatible update. Also tried link from Intel which points to an alternate only to find it instantly reports
    incorrect chipset. As best as I can tell the problem is the
    chipset is the new 82801EB (part of ICH5) not the older 82801 series. The infinst_enu.exe fails instantly. An alternate zip file is available. I unzipped it to a new folder,
    removed the primary/secondary dual fifo from device drivers,
    restarted manually(system will not restart or shut down at the moment) and waited for it to once again find the primary/secondary dual fifo so I could manually point it to the new folder. It put back what I just took out.
    I am running dual boot Win 2K which is working correctly
    and looked to see what drivers it was using. It pointed to
    some drivers which are used for Win2K as well as the drivers which are supposed to be installing for Win98SE: a pair of .sys files which are not in the unzipped folder or
    on the factory CD. If I could locate them they would usually be in an .inf formwhich is what system/devices/
    update driver is trying to locate. I thought it might
    be a problem with the APIC. So I turned it off in the bios.
    I went back to sytem devices and deselected the automatic settings. But that was not the problem or at least may be only part of the problem. If I can find the correct .sys drivers and .inf for install that may solve my problem. The bios is by design supposed to support
    IDE/SATA and the much newer PATA. I bought the board because it specifically says Win98SE compatible and in
    the manual it shows that in the Phoenix Award bios
    is a COMPAT mode for older (win98+ other) systems.
    Of course no such setting exists. You can choose SATA
    only,AUTO, or Enhanced( presumably 2K or XP only).
    In the device manager you can set the parent ATA
    to default,single IDE, or dual. Having exhausted all
    combinations of settings and trying unusable downloads
    I am out of ideas.
    Thanks
     
  5. 2004/01/27
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    Chaintech has now posted a version two bios for this board which I downloaded and installed in the hope it would help.
    Result - no difference, and yes the model number of the board is right off the box and listed on their site. It is
    for a Pentium 4 478. Its a great board if you are running
    Win2K or XP and is loaded with all the bells and whistles
    Bios supports mps 1.1 or 1.4 (hyperthreading) which if you
    have XP and one of the Pentium chips with HT enabled -
    mine is a 2.6 with H/T this is a great combination. Unfortunately its not doing for me since I still need Win98SE
    to retrieve some data libraries. Any buyers?
     
  6. 2004/01/28
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Maybe you have said it:
    It may be a matter of turning off the "bells and whistles" in the BIOS settings for Win 98 to function normally.

    You may have to manually record the current settings before you change them (I've investigated BIOS settings backup programs and they don't seem to do much, but you may find a good one at reasonable? $'s).

    Work with your motherboard manual.

    Matt

    PS Even the "Plug and Play OS" setting (if it has it) may be the cause. 98 uses that setting, 2000/XP does not.
     
    Last edited: 2004/01/28
  7. 2004/02/02
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    I did not see your post or I would have got back to you sooner as I am getting more than a little anxious. The manual is garbage. The manual says there is a compat
    mode in the bios for win 98 and previous or other OS's.
    Trust me, there isn't one. IT's really bad news bears.
    Yes I have shut down or tried to shut down all but essentials.
    Hyperthreading is disabled. I use an audigy soundcard so
    the onboard sound is disabled. The memory config is
    dual 256 DDR400 with 2 meg ram and at least it works.
    Nothing is overclocked or out of the ordinary except for the
    addition of the SATA setting which allows me legacy (SATA
    only) , auto, combined (SATA/PATA) and enhanced. Its set to auto. There is a settting for APIC which I should be able to turn off but the choices in this bios do not let you manually set the IRQ's. If you disable the APIC the system crashes.
    There are onboard chips to enhance /control the pio of some devices. Also set to auto. If you disable system crashes.
    Although the box and the manual says the system can run in win98se I think the manufacturer is just trying to increase his market share because my candle is beginning to burn down as I try to find a way to make it work. It is really annoying to know it works well with 2K and XP and
    I can't access my data libraries .
    There are a pile of cd.vxd's,disk.vxd's ,Torisan3.vxd,
    BIBMEM.drv sitting in windows\system\iosubsys which
    is where intel says the drivers for the cd and disk are supposed to be but they are not listed in device manager as the drivers or anyrthing being used. It's a puzle.
    Chaintech says its not a hardware problem ask Microsoft.
    Intel says it's not their baby. After a bit you really want
    to tell these folks what you think of them.
     
  8. 2004/02/02
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Some things I can't see in what you have said:

    What is your HDD setup (SATA only, IDE-SATA) and where is Win98 (same HDD as 2000)? How many HDD's?

    Is Win98 a fresh install on this system?

    What software accesses your data libraries?


    I think the problem lies in the "basic setup ", don't get too clouded by the "effects ". Are there any other things you can tell us about your setup?

    Matt
     
  9. 2004/02/02
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    System config:
    1 Maxtor 80G master 0 w partions c to k and Win98SE is on
    C; Win2K s on I; WinXP is on D.
    2. Seagate 80G master 3 controlled by onboard chip
    and bios settings. Used for mirror image as backup.
    3. LG combo CDRW/DVD master 1
    4 Audigy soundcard. On board sound off
    5 On board Realtek lan enabled and working.
    6 Siig cybermedia parallel port for lpt 2
    7. Nvidia T1 4400 video board
    8. Dual memory (2x256) 400 DDR w/ 2 M in config.sys
    9. 1 floppy disk drive
    All working. Everything hard configured with seperate cables
    and jumpers properly set. No magic,no smoke or mirrors.
    This is a new tower with a FULL OEM CLEAN INSTALL of win98SE with a dual boot of 2K/XP
    Win 98SE is on C: and this for the moment is primary system. Linux anyone?
    I have configured the identical system with a Gigabyte
    P4 Titan SINXP 1394 with no problem. Only the Intel
    chipset install is in trouble.
    Factory CD tries to install drivers in windows\system\iosubsys .
    Error message show folder in C:\windows\temp\ xxx\valuesh1 can not install , FAIL,followed by Ikernel
    illegal operation and shutdown. The intel download
    site gives download with same result.
    Must find an inf which will install device drivers from
    device manager and or drivers that work.
    Also if it helps: the intel files which are installing in iosubsys are a generic load of vxd's many of which
    (like Torisan3,nec and others) have absolutely nothing to
    do with my system. Intels generic package is just loading the iosubsys with unnessary files. Files which are
    Win9x related such as cdtsd.vxd,cdvsd.vxd,disktsd.vxd,
    diskvsd.vxd,voltrack.vxd have no association? and there is
    a couple of other files like BIGMEM.drv and ESDI506_.pdr
    without association. No.sys files or .inf
    Manual extract of intel .zip download also fails at same point of instal. Tried a suggestion to use regedit
    and remove HK local enum and reinstall WIn98SE
    drivers and nearly fell out of my chair as when the system tried to reboot it came up as far as the desktop and powered down. Never seen anything like it Will not try that again. Was able to restore a prior registry.
     
  10. 2004/02/02
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    I cannot spot the problem offhand. You have a lot of factors involved and I haven't dealt with a lot of them.

    What I would do though, is to find a spare HDD, remove your current drives, load a good install of Win98 onto it and see if that would run properly. This would tell you if the system will ever function correctly with Win98 (if the problem is with the motherboard itself or higher up the chain eg Windows or the drivers).It should remove so many combinations of factors eg drive setup.

    Sorry I can't help you more, hope you find it.
    Matt
     
  11. 2004/02/03
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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  12. 2004/02/03
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    Hmm. Have mostly been used to seeing the parallel used
    for printers where it has been a trusted high speed connection. This seems to point out as you say that a PATA
    was available before but they must be making a comeback because there are now multiple new motherboards all offering this as a better solution than the SATA. I found the
    SATA from Seagate super simple to install,well documented and came with software that was easy to understand and
    work with and I am very pleased with it. Only the Chaintech mobo came less than well prepared for Win98SE. I suspect if I took out the SATA setting in the bios which would disable my seagate my CDRW/DVD would work properly. At this point it looks like I will have to start from scratch and install each device one at a time and hope for the best.
    I got an email from Intel saying the infinst installer MUST
    work for Win98SE. Ha ha. Of course they are not sitting here at midnight trying to figure out why it doesn't.
    As for the data libraries they are from proprietary tax
    programs,accounting programs and some computer
    which must be maintained for six years. Frankly I got as
    good if not better results from an old 486 than some of todays machines in my opinion but if you need to stay up to date to use todays programs - no choice. If I can't find a solution soon it looks like time for EBAY for my new mobo
    since the rest of the tower is new and working perfectly.
    As for the settings no I am afraid that the auto setting is the only one that works in WIn98SE. Thanks for trying. I did have one thought and that was I noticed XP has a WIn98 folder in it and from reading I am told some system
    files are shared. At the very outside do you thing the dual
    boot is interferring somehow?
    As I said the Seagate has a complete mirror of C on its
    first partition of the original clean install and is bootable.
    Windows starts up and shuts down properly BUT without
    installing the AGP driver (part of the chipset core) I have a video settings problem. Its when you try to install the chipset drivers that everything goes cuckoo Maybe if I
    can seperate the agp driver from their install I can force the system to work.
     
  13. 2004/02/03
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    PATA is what you (everyone) has used until the arrival of SATA. maybe they have improved it's performance.

    Have some more for you, but now time for ZZZZZZZZZZZZ's

    Matt
     
  14. 2004/02/04
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Just to check, the motherboard drivers should be loaded straight after the clean install of Windows, before any other drivers.
    Something I wondered, but I haven't had to deal with boot (manger) problems before.
    These three things (above) are why I suggested installing Win98 on a drive of it's own. It may be in the setup. If you "give up" and decide on another motherboard, why not give it a try on your current C: drive (if you can't find an old HDD) and without the multi-boot. A new motherboard will mean reinstalling all of your Windows systems...fun, ha-ha.

    I asked about which software you need to run because someone here may see a workaround for XP and 2000 to access the libraries. Sounds like "compatability mode" is a non-starter.

    Loading the AGP controller sounds like it may be at the source of the problem. My (VIA) CPU to AGP controller in Win98 is listed under System Devices, could see what the standard Microsoft ones look like and make Windows install (reinstall) those. Recommend you work in Safe Mode.

    Windows(98) has a lot of ways to install drivers: detect hardware, select from list, have disk, install infs, etc. Have you tried other ways?

    I will reread the things you have said. That last post seems to have some things that will may give us some leads. Can you see any other differences with the original install?

    Hope there's some leads here.
    Matt
     
  15. 2004/02/04
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    Outside shot - can you copy your chipset drivers (install disc) to a folder on the HDD and try to install them from there - won't be the first time I've had to use this work-around.

    ;)
     
  16. 2004/02/04
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks for your patience.
    1 Simple approach: remove bad devices from device manager in safe mode and let windows reinstall. Not.
    2. Try update from Intel download. No. Hours of work and no result except for error message on reboot that a dll in a
    folder in windows temp could not install followed by IKernel fail and close.
    3. More tricky approach: edit HKLM. Crashed system. Nearly gave me a heart attack.
    4.Try edit HKLM after restore prior registry managed to get tower working again. This time when tower restarts Windows renamed autoexec.bat and replace with "placeholder ", followed by error messages showing missing vxd's and or insufficient memory then stops. Can not boot
    again.
    5. Enough, toss out Windows and disable SATA in bips.
    6. Run setup. Back to full OEM clean install. Now intel
    chipset instal works. Reinstall video ,lan,usb ,sound,
    fax, lpt2 drivers. Completely clean system.
    7. Sytem restart, shutdown working again. Cd rom workiing again. Only recycle bin invalid?
    8. Reset bios to access SATA.
    Mode 1 SATA only -second master . Boots from
    SATA (Its a mirror of C so its finding windows) but
    at boot no CD install and at Desktop NO CD!
    Mode 2 Auto No . Gets to CD stage at boot and
    stops.
    Mode 3 Combined. Select primary or secondary and tries to boot from SATA with no CD.
    WHEN SET TO SECONDARY SLAVE BOOTS FROM IDE
    MASTER 0 properly but no CD.!
    Mode 4 Enhanced. XP only.
    Time to sell? Just found many reasons to buy board with Via chipset.
    One other thing I had a problem finding a CD RW with firmware that still runs WIN98SE. Bought Liteonit and a
    couple of others and ended up taking them back because they are all now 2K or XP only. I have a gigabyte SIN 1394XP with SIS chipset and had terrible time with CDRW
    because the dma was not being set and the firmware not compatible with 98SE. With all of todays new on chip programming at boot replacing the autoexec commands
    is it possible the LG CDRW firmware is killing us? I don't
    think so because everything including CDWR works until I try to set SATA
     
  17. 2004/02/04
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Sorry, but I am still a little lost as to which drives are SATA based and which are IDE (parallel). Looks like everything (apart from the Recycle Bin, which wants to put a copy on every drive and probably can't read the SATA drive) works with a clean install. It's when SATA is initiated that Win98 loses the plot.

    I take it your main HDD (Maxtor) is SATA based and the mirror HDD Seagate IDE (parallel)? This may be the source, along with trying to install the motherboard drivers after the dual boot configuration with XP/2000.

    If you set up WIN98 on the SATA drive it will probably see other drives differently when seen from the mirror (IDE) drive (why you are losing the CD-RW).

    Do you think you can do that clean install and driver load AGAIN on your SATA drive with SATA (Auto?) enabled. This time install Win98 as if it were stand alone. Install the motherboard divers immediately after installing Windows, then the video, then upgrade DirectX, then install the other drivers. Don't initiate a dual(multi) boot until 98 is going well.

    The motherboard drivers may be setting up according to whether they are on a SATA system or IDE (they will have to see the other drives a different way, ie through different drivers.... that's maybe why things aren't working). If the main drive is SATA, the "miiror" (IDE?) may never function alone because the motherboard drivers were set up as SATA and not IDE.

    I think you will have to get your setup proceedure EXACTLY right for it to "fall into place ".

    Hope I am reading it right, as I said I am a little hazy in some areas and I have little experience with SATA. Let me know if any of this is unfeasible.

    Matt
     
  18. 2004/02/05
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    Hi Matt. Thought I lost you or you just got tired of this stupid board. To try and clarifyThe Seagate is the SATA drive and used for backup. It is a clone of the Maxtor right down to the partitions but the Maxtor is my main drive and it is the Ide
    although the bios says the SATA is being handled as Ide Master 3. I used a tape drive for backup for the longest time
    and it was extremely reliable but as hard drives got bigger
    this SATA when it works is terrific. Simple to install, smaller cable and the Seagate people put a lot of thought into
    their software bundle for it.
    Yes I did EXACTLY as you wrote when I did the first install.
    That method is what gave me my original error message
    with the problem of primary and secondary dual fifo errors.
     
  19. 2004/02/05
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    Most interesting thread but tough to follow - requires real concentration. Personally, am also at a loss re: solution because I follow your logic as to approach. Couple of comments, not necessarily suggestions.

    Limited SATA experience here too, but my DFI board disables primary on IDE #1 when SATA is enabled (4 IDE & 1 SATA channels on MB). Encountered some setup hurdles when I added SATA WD Raptor as final drive (set as primary sytem drive #C however) because it didn't want to place nice with 4 IDE HDD's running from #3 & #4 - problem fixed after extensive trial and error.

    You can get a BIOS Savior form Eskit Data which will permit a second BIOS chip with different bin and setup configuration - permits toggling between first or second BIOS for different hardware settings.

    There is a skip driver tool in Win98 which will permit you to force a work-around if you can't get past what Windows wants to load or has loaded for you. Haven't had to use it for a couple of years but you can access it from System Information, Tools.

    Good Luck - will continue to follow this with interest. Sorry, little or no help from these quarters on this one.

    ;)
     
  20. 2004/02/05
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    I have to go away for a few days, so don't think I've abandoned you.

    Looks like Rockster may had headaches with SATA setup as well. It may difficult with any motherboard you try.

    As rockster says, trial and error? Could put some of the BIOS settings phrases into a search engine and see if someone has come up with a proceedure or at least get an idea of why it is happening.

    What do you think of using the SATA as main HDD and IDE as mirror (backup)? Do you think that could get things going?

    Matt
     
  21. 2004/02/05
    mossman

    mossman Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks guys. Having crashed the system a couple of times I finally tossed out windows and reinstalled it. I tried the intel infinst download and ran it from the HD after clean install with SATA shut off. To my surprise it worked this time but should never have to do that. Then I put back Nvidia drivers, sound,lan,lpt, and fax/voice/modem. Now I had clean system with CD but no SATA and when I turned on SATA I had no CD at boot or on desktop. Somewhere along the way the system had put a dummy file in place of the autoexec bat and hid it. I removed the attributes and put back my correct autoexec.bat. Time to open the case and try again. I got a suggestion to try and move the jumper to set CDRW as slave..
    That did not work. I took out the IDE1 cable completely
    which was being used only for the CDRW and the factory HDD cable which came with the board. I put in one of those 133 round cables from IDE 0 to Maxtor IDE hard drive and ran the second end up to the CDRW/DVD combo as primary slave. I once again moved the jumper on the CD combo to slave and closed it up. I reset the SATA bios setting to Auto and saved it. To my surprise now when the system restarted it showed the CD at boot,loaded the mscdex driver, gave it a letter and got to the desktop. The Cd is working again and the two hard drives are both being recongized ; but, there is no reason this board should not recognize the Cd as second master since that setup works in Win2K and XP In any event it is working somehow and as long as it goes for a little while longer I will be out of the doghouse. I will be able to change to whatever windows or linux is around. Thanks again. I will keep that last suggestion on file since I that that Rockster
    on fiile as you never know when it may come in handy.
     
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