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NERO - full backup vs ??? and CD-RW size?

Discussion in 'Other PC Software' started by savagcl, 2005/09/20.

  1. 2005/09/30
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    UhUo, clear the area, Matts getting his fighting hat on! :D :D

    An update first, Matt.

    I went and bought some DVD+R's (16X) and some CD-RWs (24X). I then
    reinstalled nero after clearing it out using their tools. I also put the reg tweak
    in to show actual write speed.

    I put in a DVD+R (16X) and burned a folder. The write speed (actual) showed
    as starting at 7.0X at the finish it was 9.1X (since speed was increasing,
    maybe(?) it would have hit 16X in a long dvd burn.. but i doubt it!

    I put in a CD-RW (24X) and it wrote at 12X. The same CD-RW wrote at 24X
    in the TDK (cd-rw) drive.

    Conclusion:
    1. The max write speed of the DVD drive is 16X (regardless of the DVD speed being rated higher) (is there a higher speed for DVDs) . Havent seen 16X yet but maybe!
    2. A CD-RW will only get half of the rated speed in the DVD drive but full
    speed in the TDK CD-RW drive.
    3. I dont like Nero, its to d*mn finiky and their backup software is a bummer.
    4. I'm going to buy the new EZCD Creator (7.5) and dump Nero.
    5. I'm going to get a new DVD DL device.

    Now,
    Intel(R) 82801FB Ultra ATA Storage Controllers - 2651 SATA Controller on MB
    Intel(R) 82801FB/FBM Ultra ATA Storage Controllers - 266F SATA Controller on MB

    Primary IDE Channel >>>> Master: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B (DMA2).
    Primary IDE Channel >>>Master: ST3160023AS (DMA5) >>>>Slave: ST3160023AS (DMA5) (Slave is normally disabled and powered off)
    Secondary IDE Channel >>>Not Applicable, Nothing there.

    Intel(R) 82801FB/FBM USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 265C USB2 driver = TDK CD-RW Drive (normally powered off).

    Boot device sequence = DVD, SATA, Ethernet, Floppy

    Gota love it!!!!!!
    clif
     
  2. 2005/09/30
    jaylach

    jaylach Inactive

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    I use Nero for the backing up that I do. Image of beta test drive and such.

    I can't speak for earlier versions but Nero 6 DOES have selective backup without doing a full backup first. At least Nero 6 Ultra does. I was fortunate enough when I bought my Memorex DVD burner that 6 Ultra came with it as an OEM install. There are actually two different backup programs. Non Ultra versions SEEM to use Nero Backup. Ultra seems to use BackitUP. It is BackitUP that allows the selective choices. Backup may or may not allow selective after a full backup. I really don't know. BackitUP does from the start.

    I hope this clears things up a bit as BackitUP seems, to me, to be a pretty solid backup utility.
     

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  4. 2005/10/01
    Eck

    Eck Inactive

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    I can't see any gain by, in my opinion, downgrading to flaky Roxio software.

    Some love it. I can imagine flamer's burning to reply right now.

    I used Easy Cd Hard Drive Reformator from the 3.5 versions through the last 5.0 updates. I was happy to find Nero 5.0 with my 2nd burner and as soon as Nero 6 Ultra Edition came out I bought it.

    I can tell you that Nero has always allowed more freedom as far as different advanced sorts of burning options available.

    It has rarely conflicted (with the exception of the always flaky packet writing InCD that I only tried once) with other software.

    When there are problems they are usually fixed with a mid update patch (if serious enough) or the next nearly monthly update. Roxio doesn't update unless thousands complain in forum's all over the net and news articles come out dissing them! Figure a couple of updates a year when things are really bad.

    Like I said, Nero offers new features, updates, and bug fixes nearly every month. Problems don't get too far before they fix them.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't spend my money on that if I were you. Now, the new Nero 7 is about to be released and I've heard that the beta has been buggy. But I certainly expect problems to be fixed rather quickly. The first release of Nero 6 had plenty of problems with all the new features, but got fixed up pretty fast as users reported the problems.

    By the way, on one of my machine's, an ASUS A7V880, I boot to SATA, have nothing on my primary IDE, and have my CDRW as master and DVDROM as slave on my secondary IDE channel. It all works properly. I don't believe a redesign of your setup is necessary but it's good to at least know what you've got there.

    Make sure your chipset drivers are current, things work properly, and then it might be that with your setup that's the speed you can expect from that particular drive. Like I said before, it could be a problem with the drive itself but if it's too late to exchange it at least it's burning fine. Just a bit slow.

    Your CDRW burns at top speed, and you're burning with the DVDRW successfully albeit a bit slower than you expect.

    It doesn't seem that things are dire enough to move everything around and probably need to format considering all the changes Windows would need to figure out.

    I wouldn't bother as long as everything is pretty much going smoothly.
     
    Eck,
    #43
  5. 2005/10/01
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Thats food for thought. I'll give my full attention.

    Out of town for a week, so will have plenty of time to digest what you said.
    Wont be out of touch tho, will use my daughters system.

    Thanks, Guys/Gals/whatever,,,,,
    clif
     
  6. 2005/10/01
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Yes, watch out, I have got that hat on.

    Clif, we spoke before about getting a new motherboard.

    You have dumped the original "Gateway Windows" and you are running a retail version, so you will not have the original drivers. I think a lot of your problems stem from this. OEM manufacturers offer very few updates for their drivers, software, BIOS, etc. (the BIOS updates on this Gigabyte board are up to version 12), these are things you might expect, but won't find. You have found problems with their "after sales" support, I would think that after they sell the product, support is the last on their list. You have a modified version of an OEM, from my experience these do not work correctly, you need the original drivers. Gateway support won't want to help you. The people here can't work out the cause of the problems.

    Please, my friend, don't throw good money after bad.
    You will only need a new motherboard and case. The rest of your hardware can be transferred. The people in the Hardware Forum can help you select a compatible one. I think with a new motherboard you will find that the DVD-RW works correctly and Nero will be more friendly (you then set your background settings and just use the wizard).

    How much time have we spent together trying to fix this machine?
    Get a new motherboard.

    Matt
     
    Last edited: 2005/10/01
  7. 2005/10/01
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Hi Matt, How u doing?

    let me clean up.
    Gateway did send me a new tower with new MB. I just had to turn off the
    MB sound and the MB graphics (I can do better than that).

    The MB "seems" to be working ok now but one never knows.
    I am running the OEM version of winxp and 1 of the first things on my list when
    get home again, is to format and install the real winXP. That may clear up
    everything......... I'm also looking for a good 24in. monitor with the 4ms
    response time and great resolution. I know, not there yet but sony is working
    on one and i understand its soon to be released.

    A new MB and case is not out of the picture yet tho.

    Who knows, maybe when i get the real winxp installed, these nits may just go
    and disappear. If not, plenty of time to consider replacing other parts. I'm a
    patient man.

    thanks Matt and have a good one (remove hat, open beer!),
    clif
     
  8. 2005/10/01
    Eck

    Eck Inactive

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    Wow, a manufacturer sent you a new setup.

    That's incredible, and I'm not being sarcastic!

    Please listen to mattman, though. Listen, an OEM XP is the same thing as a retail XP with just the addition of a few help program's, and specific drivers meant for the OEM board slipstreamed into the setup.

    So I don't think a retail XP install would result in any difference with the exception of not having the proper drivers for any proprietary hardware. These probably won't be found on the Gateway site, so you'd be worse off.

    If there's anything you don't like in the OEM setup you usually can either uninstall it or at least not use it. But unless Microsoft releases a completely new Windows that also includes the proper drivers for your OEM motherboard there is really no point in buying the same version. By the way, Microsoft often does incorporate drivers that'll work with older OEM motherboards in new Windows versions as they want folks to have a good experience if they do purchase the next Windows version.

    It doesn't seem that software is your problem. But the way to find that out is to use your drives on a different computer and see what happens.

    So basically Gateway actually replaced the motherboard of the system that had been giving you some of the problems mentioned you worked stuff out here with, eh?

    That's cool.

    Here's hoping you get the thing configured so you get your stuff done. I wouldn't spend a bunch of money if you're satisfied with things as they are.
     
    Eck,
    #47
  9. 2005/10/01
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Eck,

    Its true, they sent me a new tower with all the stuff inside Only after ragging
    them for 3 1/2 days and about 15-20 phone calls. I know its all new because
    i didnt send them the broke one until i recieved the new one.
    Actually, the new one was better because they had included a graphics card
    (guess they had lots of complaints about the on-board graphics) and the new
    one had both vga and digital hookups (broke one only had vga).

    I didnt really like the recovery scheme they had. It was a cd (program) and
    5 gig of my HD to hold all the restore stuff. This kinda put a damper on making
    any changes.

    I already have the winxp full version with sp2 so no money spent there. One
    thing i liked about gateway is no proprietary hardware, anything can be
    changed or upgraded without having to buy from them including the software
    . I'm looking forward to the next release of windows. My sys is supposed to
    be capable for running 64 bit addressing.

    thanks for the input,
    clif
     
  10. 2005/10/01
    Eck

    Eck Inactive

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    Ah! Good. Even better.

    Sometimes restore partitions are hard to get rid of and interfere with things as they are hidden drives.

    Partition Magic and similar software overcomes the problem as they let you see all partitions, delete them, etc.

    So in this case, as you have a full XP SP2 cd it would be better as you would then eliminate the wasted space from the restore partition. I don't see any other benefit though.

    If you get a computer without an OS and would like to install the full version on that, you can still call Microsoft's activation by phone system and tell them your hard drive crashed. They'll just give you the "activate by phone" numbers to input and from then on that system will activate by internet normally if you need to reformat, etc. You'd just need to promise that it's only for this one computer, which would be the truth. You'd then return to using the Gateway cd on the Gateway.

    You would delete all partitions on your Gateway and the recovery cd would work again. You would need to show the cd an unpartitioned drive though, so it would reinstall its own hidden recovery partition again.
     
    Eck,
    #49
  11. 2005/10/02
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Dummy-spit over. I am trying to think of good reasons to keep the Gateway, not convincing myself of any though :D . I can't see how it would be that the DVD-RW "sort of works ".

    Just looking at the drive arrangement:
    Primary IDE: DVD-RW is master... HDD is master and slave?? Does not look right to me.
    I would not run the DVD-RW as master on the primary channel, slave maybe, but better on the secondary IDE alone.

    If you have had both Nero and EasyCD installed, the ASPI layer drivers may be corrupted. Maybe the format would be a good thing (first try the reset method I mentioned). Don't try running both at the same time, even uninstalling one and installing the other may scramble the ASPI.

    The CD-RW is USB. You mentioned a problem when Nero recognizes it. I might wonder about a resource conflict (or even a power consumption problem on the USB system).

    I cannot think of many(any) reasons to blame the DVD-RW. I would find out what is the cause of it's incorrect function.
    If you got another DVD-RW and it worked perfectly I would be VERY surprised :confused:
    Edit: Ask the people at the CDR forum what they think about a firmware update for it. You should be able to use the LG 4163B firmware.

    Matt
     
    Last edited: 2005/10/02
  12. 2005/10/02
    Eck

    Eck Inactive

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    Heh, good awareness. I missed that. Huh? That drive arrangement must have lost something in the translation. That's not how it is, so perhaps try to explain it again?

    There shouldn't be a problem with Easy Cd and Nero on the same system as long as either no packet writing software is installed or only one packet writing software is installed. Lots of folks have Sonic, Ahead, and Roxio all on the same system with no conflicts. Heh, mostly burning software fanatics I guess, since they all do mostly the same stuff!

    The versions of Easy Cd I remember would install DirectCD by default. I needed to do a custom install and uncheck it if I didn't want it. I suppose the 6, 7, and 7.5 versions probably work the same way, but now call it something else, like "Drag to Drop." I only saw it in a review and don't remember. Whatever it's called it isn't completely reliable. Someday you'll reach for your backup and find the cd unreadable. I'd stick to burning normally with cd mastering software.

    Nero, on the other hand only installs InCD if you specifically start its installer.

    By the way, Roxio's packet writing software has a better reliability than InCD and can use Cdr's as well as Cdrw. However, the Nero normal cd mastering software has proved the more reliable and fully featured.

    But, this really doesn't pertain at the moment since Cliff is only thinking about dumping Nero and using Easy Cd. I think he only has Nero at the moment.

    He should keep the Gateway if it suits his needs and the included hardware and software works properly. If something is messed up because he likes to mess around with different hardware and software, well, any pc he has would get just as messed up if he doesn't do it right.

    So, we can try to help him out if he can give us his configuration correctly. But, at least in my opinion, buying another machine to play with isn't necessary unless he wants more toys to play with. (He, he, I've got four but certainly don't need or use more than one at a time!)

    Cliff, did the new Gateway hardware and software work properly out of the box? If so, it's not a new computer that you need, but a better design for your additions. Or not, if you're reasonably happy with the results you're getting. Weird, that the DVD writer doesn't write at advertised speed though. So you can keep playing with software but I do think something's wrong with how you have your hardware setup. That, or the drive is defective but still performs somewhat.

    Again, your full XP won't be any better at using the hardware than your Gateway XP. It's still Microsoft Windows XP, just with some Gateway additions.
     
    Eck,
    #51
  13. 2005/10/03
    jaylach

    jaylach Inactive

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    Too lazy to go back through all the posts but has it been mentioned to make sure the burner is set to allow DMA?
     
  14. 2005/10/03
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Eck, the last time I had an ASPI problem the optical drives disappeared. No amount of driver resetting could get them back. The system was 98SE with Nero and InCD. I asked on the forum here, (think was Mise) asked me if any new software had been installed...ah-ha!, I had upgraded Media Player. Went back through the installation of Media Player and removed the "burner" (a cut-down version of EasyCD). The system was immediately back to normal.
    WinXP may be a different kettle of fish, but I still don't trust them together.

    Matt
     
  15. 2005/10/03
    Eck

    Eck Inactive

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    I hear ya. Drive disapearence is often associated with that Roxio stuff. There's even a Microsoft Kb article regarding a fix. It involves what might happen after uninstalling the Easy Cd software. The fix was to remove the registry lines that involve upper filters and lower filters.

    I think my simply unchecking "allow cd burning on this drive" in the drive's properties page and rebooting before my Nero installs on a fresh XP probably reduced the possibilites for things to conflict. That turns off the built in Media Player Roxio burner.

    I recall one time that I needed to access some old cdrw discs I had made with DirectCD. XP would have read them but my computer had 9x at the time. Nero was already installed. I installed my Easy Cd Creator 5 using a custom install and only checked DirectCD. After rebooting I applied the latest update and rebooted again.

    I then had some elements of Easy Cd Creator, like the start menu shortcuts and the GUI. The only program that would open from the links, as it was the only one installed (on purpose) was DirectCD. So, I was able to read and use my old DirectCD created cd's.

    The system ran fine with the latest WMP with its Roxio stuff, Nero, and DirectCD installed. I also was using ForceASPI 1.7 (4.60 ASPI) and it functioned fine.

    I guess I was lucky! I never tried installing full versions of competing burning software at the same time, but know of folks who do this without problems as long as they don't install competing packet writing solutions.

    My only ASPI problems occurered recently when running the latest Nero 6 versions along with the newer ASPI 4.71a2. I lost DMA on my cdrw drive, digital cd playback, and my DVD's wouldn't play.

    Using ForceASPI 1.7 to kill my current ASPI and install the older 4.60 fixed the problems.

    I don't think the newer ASPI plays nice on a machine with the later versions of Nero 6 installed.
     
    Eck,
    #54
  16. 2005/10/04
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    sorry about the config confusion.
    the first HDD is a master and the second HDD is a slave, both are on the same primary IDE
    channel when both are connected and powered on (rare for both to be "on ").

    I'm not at home so cant elaborate more than that for now. I will double check when i get
    home.

    Interesting trip, my toyota 4runner worked great until i hit the first toll-booth, then the
    clutch went out. It is 9 years old, so, what the heck, i just bought a new 2006,
    sport-edition 4runner. Auto prices have gone down a little bit (but not so you'd notice).
    The new one was 34K (got them to 32K) plus with a 8k trade-in for my old 4runner.
    Guess that will put a knot into any PC upgrades for a while!!! All totaled 24K + trade-in.
     
  17. 2005/10/04
    Eck

    Eck Inactive

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    Aww, you just wanted a new truck, didn't you?

    Those Toyota'a go a long time. For a few hundred bucks they would have put a new clutch in there for you.

    It reminds me of when I was like 3 years old (story told to me much later), and my Mom needed new tires so she bought a new car instead. This was back in 1962! She went from a Thunderbird to an LTD. I guess she liked boats. They didn't have SUV's back then, they had Ford LTD's. Darn it! Nice white Thunderbird. I kind of remember it. Ugly black LTD. That one I remember fully.

    But, have fun with the new truck! You don't need a new computer anyway. Sheesh, my circa 1999 computer still runs fine.

    I see, those were 2 hard drives both on the primary channel. Nothing wrong with that. I still think it's the DVDRW drive, but like I said the way to be sure is to install it on a friends computer (if you don't have another one to try it on) and see what speed it burns at. Or perhaps the drive's firmware had problems with the initial build and just needs an update from the manufacturer. Sometimes these updates never happen. They hope you'll ditch it and buy another one. Doesn't hurt to search the website though. You could luck out.
     
    Eck,
    #56
  18. 2005/10/04
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Darn, my secret's out. The old truck was 9 years old and getting grouchie, like me!
    Heres a pic.
    I think i'll try the firmware that Mattman mentioned whenever i get home.
     
  19. 2005/10/08
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    OK, so i got a new plextor 740a. Will try it when i get home.
    Needed one anyway, the original one had a problem with the door opening and closing
    (binding i guess). Had to push the door to finish closing and hope it would open all the way.
    If this dont correct it, i will live with it.
     
  20. 2005/10/08
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    The Toyota sounds good. I am a Toyota fan. I mistreat mine and it still runs like clockwork :)

    I know everybody doesn't think this is a problem, but I do. I think you should run the DVD burner off the secondary IDE. Swapping the DVD and the HDD on the primary IDE may cause problems with recognition in the BIOS. Give it a permanent home on the secondary IDE. Connecting or disconnecting the HDD should be OK, but the BIOS will have set the drive's configuration, it will just find that the drive is there or it is not there. Swapping back and forth with an optical drive on the primary master IDE I do not think is ideal at all.

    Matt
     
  21. 2005/10/08
    savagcl Lifetime Subscription

    savagcl Geek Member Thread Starter

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    Mattman,

    I'll put the new dvd on the secondary!! And see how that works.

    Thanks, Guy,
     

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