NERO - full backup vs ??? and CD-RW size?

Hello Clif,
I don't think the backup program offered by Nero is a meant as a full-blown, configurable backup program. It is set as "this is the way you have to do it "... because it is a add-on (a freebie), not meant to be used by those serious about having a "backup this or that" style. I think you would have to do "full" backup first before the other options became available.
It does not suit me either so I don't use it.
I would look at specialised backup programs for when you want to do something specific. Even good old Windows Backup. In Windows Backup you could select those folders and create a backup file (.qic) on your harddrive, you then burn that file to a CD or DVD. If your system happens to fail, when you get Windows running again, run Windows Backup, open the file(s) and just tell it where to reinstall.

The Nero backup would be good with a near-new install that would fit onto a (few?) disks. If you have quite a few gigabytes, it would become hard to handle.

Matt

 

Matt,

Thanks for the info. I'm still getting used to nero, eventually will get the hang
of it.

I updated to Acronis 8.0 and it does sys backups just fine. Acronis 9.0 is out
now and i got the freeby update because i was within a 30 day, free update
window. It also works fine on my system. So i dont really need the nero
backup now. I'll just ignore that part of nero.

Which only leaves 2 questions, namely -
1. Write speed - I put in a dvd+rw (1-4 speed) and it writes as 1x. I put in a
high-speed cd-rw (up to48x) and it writes as 10x ? I put in the speed patch
but no difference.
2. Still researching at the plextor 740a and the benq, nero site doesnt list
either unit as compatable.

Another note: Since Acronis is working for me now, i managed to get rid of the
hidden, protected "G" partition (a partition containing all the original software
that came with my sys, including all the bloat-ware). Glad to be rid of it since
way over 50% didnt apply to my sys anymore and now i have a small (5 gig)
partition i can use for temporary files.

Thanks for the input Matt and have a good day!
clif

 

savagcl

How large are the files Acronis makes?

Suggest you keep your system partition small; mine is 9+ GB so Ghost files are 3+GB and easily fit on a DVD with room to spare. I have a separate partition for programs and another for data, so they can be backed up separately, on a very different schedules that allow for the fact that there's less change than in the OS and data.

Generally make images on second HDD and then drag to a DVD-R which seems faster; never tried to write an image directly to a DVD and not sure it would, working in DOS. Keep a spare 40GB HDD on my desk to use as a slave for computers that come through here that don't have a second drive internally.

Wouldn't dream of using CDs except for individual files and/or folders.

Ghost allows for retrieving individual files from an image; does Acronis?

 

To reply to your first question about backups. A full back up is needed first inorder to get other backup options. The other thing is that there is no real point in backing up to a CD-RW when CD-R are dirt cheap.

Install Force ASPI drivers. Also the speed problems with burning can be effected by a hardware setting.

Right click on My Computer->select Properties->select Hardware tab->select Device Manager->select IDE Controller

What ever controller your burner is on check and make sure that your burner is NOT in PIO mode. Also another thing is to put your burner on your second controller and make it your primary drive.

 

sparrow,

I have 5 gig (used) on the "C" drive, Acronis creates a 2.28 image of the
backup onto an external HD (USB2) in about 1.5 minutes, maybe a bit more to
verify the image. Acronis has 5 levels of compression, i use the "normal" one.

Yes, you can retrieve individual files or folders with Acronis 9.0, and apply them
to the HD. The next version will include DVD support (hopefully this means
dual-layer dvd's also).

And i just leave the image(s) on the (USB2)HD except maybe just before a
massive change (rare) I can copy the image to multiple dvd's if needed.

clif

 

Dcrypter,

I think having to do a full backup initially should be up to the user, not all
people want to do a full backup (like me). But i can use acronis to do my
backups and leave the nero backup alone.

Just to clarify, My 2 internal HD's are SATA and dont use IDE controllers.

I have 2 primaries and 1 secondary listed. The first primary (device 0) shows
Ultra DMA Mode2, device 1 = NA.
The second primary (device 0) shows DMA Mode 5, and device 1 = NA.
Nothing on the secondary IDE (not Applicable)

thanks,
clif

 

Clif, have you tried other media?

If you are using the "wizard ", you may need to go to the standard Nero Window and set the burn speed there. Look in the manual about burning and writing (the manual will be in the Ahead folder).

See if anything here may be applicable:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=86375
Another that relates to what Dcrypter is saying:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=87930

I hope the others may be able to gain something from those if they can.
I have had little trouble with burn speeds, in fact, I like a slow read and write speed to ensure there are no errors.

Matt
mmmm...Did it burn faster originally?...You have had so much trouble with the drives on that computer (one of the SATA drives was really slow). Maybe it is the computer that is the problem...not the drive or the software. (I know, I've said that before in your posts in the Hardware Forum. Seems to be a common factor though). Have you thought of it that way Clif?
mmmm...It could be the way the (fixed) drives have been set up (you have a slow harddrive and a slow optical drive).

 

Matt,

I'll check the manual again and visit those links.
This is the new system Matt, the HD's are working as expected with a fairly
good response time.

I havent seen any way to adjust the speed settings. Their "InfoTool" shjows a
speed of 40x for the dvd (read and write) but when i try to burn, the highest
speed selection options i get is 12x (and it wont even do that).

Thanks guy, I'll hit the manuals, no telling what will fall out.

clif

 

Cliff, can we assume this is a typo? You meant to say CD.

 

DennisL,

Yep. I shouldnt do msg's late at night (or else, get closer to the monitor)

thanks,
clif

 

Yeah, Nero or whatever you're burning with is not picking up the correct burn speed for your drives.

At times I've noticed the same thing. I get to the page in Nero where it says what speed it's going to burn at and it's 12x instead of 52x.

When this has happened I have checked the DMA status for the secondary IDE in Device Manager (the channel with my cdrw drive on it), saw it correct at UDMA2, DMA if available, rebooted, and when I ran Nero again it picked up the correct speed.

Now, sometimes Windows XP will reset the drives to PIO Mode if a certain number of errors have occured. At times it will reset it but won't even show it as PIO in Device Manager!

The only fix I know of is to toggle it back and forth from DMA if available to PIO Mode, rebooting between each toggle and ending up on DMA if available.

If it just wont stay on DMA if available, then you have to actually right click the secondary channel and uninstall it. After rebooting Windows XP will reinstall the channel and the drives in DMA Mode as this is the default.

Then all will be well until XP counts up its allowed number of read errors and switches it back to PIO again.

This shouldn't happen too often unless a chipset is inherently unstable, but it happens at times to the most stable systems. Once in a while the best systems get read errors and XP only allows a certain amount.

 

Eck, sounds very logical, so a question (if you can expand or extrapolate):
If Clif "toggles" back to UDMA2 mode, do you think that if he was to set his read and write speeds down a little (say, one or two down from Max) he may not get the errors that are resetting the mode to PIO?

(Trying to think of a long term solution if it is going to happen regularly)

Matt

 

Good advice.
I'm talking to some guys over at cdrlabs and he told me the same thing about
un-installing the primary ide and re-booting.

"Great minds think alike! "

Will do that and post results here.

clif

 

Try this site for all kinds of CD/DVD help. I actually met one of the moderators at BestBuy while shopping for sale items on DVD blanks a while back. Good luck

http://club.cdfreaks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48

 

Acronis response:
However, you should be aware that the current version of Acronis True Image
doesn’t write to DVD directly, instead it utilizes third party UDF packet DVD
writing software.

We recommend you to install an UDF packet DVD writing software such as
Ahead InCD or Roxio DirectCD, format DVDs by means of this software and
then use formatted disсs with Acronis True Image.

Gateway support was a lost cause (why did i even try ).

I uninstalled the primary ide for the dvd unit and rebooted. No change,
however. Its still at UDMA2.

Matt, I tried dropping the speed from 40x to 32x but as soon as nero "saw "
the cd-rw, it set the speed to 10x and greyed out the box.

Think i'll buy some new 16x, or better, dvd's and try them.....

This from the nero infotool:
Drive : HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B
Type : DVD-RAM Recorder
Firmware Version : A101
Buffer Size : 2 MB
Date : ?
Serial Number : K2355AG1556
Vendor Specific :
Drive Letter : X:\
Location : 0:0
Mechanism : Tray
Read Speed : 40 X
Write Speed : 40 X

Drive Information
------------------
Drive : TDK CDRW4800B
Type : CD-RW Recorder
Firmware Version : S7S8
Buffer Size : 2 MB
Date : ?
Serial Number
Vendor Specific : týÜ
Drive Letter : H:\
Location : 2:2
Mechanism : Tray
Read Speed : 48 , 40 , 32 , 24 , 16 , 12 , 8 , 4 X
Write Speed : 48 , 40 , 32 , 24 , 16 , 12 , 8 , 4 X

Thanks for help,
clif

 

Found this sticky discussing CD and DVD hardware issues. It has numerous links, registry checks/edits, technical information/explanation, trouble shooting/testing approaches. Good luck.

 

Just an addition tidbit extracted from my above post.
A handy informational tool .... Filter Driver Load Order (third in list)

It is a non-installed .exe file (188KB). Choose a drive in left panel, then click on any driver in right panel (listed in high to low) provides who, what, where details.

 

UDMA 2 is good! That's what most cdrw, DVD writers, etc are. Hard drive's use the faster UDMA 5 (or, with Maxtor drive's, UDMA 6).

So it's not Windows settings causing the problem for you.

Lowering the speed in the burning software would be something to try, but Nero seems to be doing that all by itself (unfortunately!).

Packet writing software oftentimes interferes with normal writing and even DVD playing software. Those drivers run all the time in the background and programs that need to use the drive have trouble when they need to control things.

Some use stuff like that all the time though. Nero InCD only writes to cdrw, not cdr. I don't know about DVD's though. Probably also only the rewritable variety.

Roxio DirectCD, or the newer version called something else I forget (something like Burn to Go?), has had less problems reported than InCD. At least as long as you use a newer version like the last DirectCD or the new whatever it's called that comes with the newer Easy Cd Creator versions.

Still, I would look for a backup program that doesn't need packet writing software installed.

I wish it could be pinpointed what's up with your drive's not burning at full speeds. Something is definately wrong. These drive's do break, some sooner than others and there's no telling when even with the best one's. They sometimes give warnings like not reading disks at times or not burning at reported speeds.

If the drive was recently purchased perhaps an RMA or return? If it's been around awhile it might be going bad.

Of course, if you've had other problems concerning your IDE Controllers it could also be a motherboard defect or burn out.

If I were there I would definately try to get ForceASPI 1.7 and use it to dump the current ASPI and see if things improve with no ASPI layer. Then, if still strange, try installing the version it installs. There's a read me in it that explains things. It's possible the ASPI layer is causing problems that either no ASPI or the older ASPI might fix.

 

OKAY! Maybe it's time to get serious (see this this is my serious face...drat, no it's not, it's got more hair than me).

We have been working from the the problem back through the possible causes.

Let's try starting at the other end.

Clif, what is your total drive configuration? What is master and slave on the primary IDE, secondary IDE and your SATA setup? Do you boot to the IDE or to SATA?

My first try would be to go to Safe Mode and uninstall the optical drives. Shutdown, open the case and disconnect the data and power cables to the opticals. Boot into Windows. Try an over-the-top installation or "repair" of Nero.
Shut down and reconnect the DVD drive, but as a different configuration. It should be set as master or slave on the secondary IDE. I would set it as master. Boot into Windows check the DMA setting, etc, then try a burn. I would not reconnect the CD-RW until I knew how the DVD-RW was functioning. Testing completed, reconnect the CD-RW, firstly as slave to the DVD-RW on the secondary IDE, see what happens.

____________________________________________________

When we talked about your configuration before I think you said that you have a HDD on the primary IDE, but it is for storage and you boot the SATA drive. I would be inclined to set the boot order in the BIOS to the IDE HDD and have a boot.ini file there to redirect it to the SATA drive. You won't lose any speed (apart from a millisecond for it to read the boot.ini file). This would let the system boot/startup the "natural" way and set all the drives the way it is expecting too.

Maybe you have changed your configuration or boot system since then. Let us know.

Lets get this machine working!

Matt