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Help needed to access Safe Mode

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by aks, 2007/06/06.

  1. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Actually it doesn't - same hal error. I had not tried that route until you posted above.

    So if the boot.ini is on the HD all is well, but the same boot.ini on a floppy does not work and gives a hal error.

    I feel a format coming up and maybe a new HD to be sure.
     
  2. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    I double checked with a fresh cut and paste of the HD boot.ini to the floppy and still get the hal error.
     

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  4. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    Now that I fully realize that you are still dual booting Vista and XP, I think what you are experiencing is normal. I should have picked up on that earlier when I first saw the remmed warning lines in your boot.ini file.

    I see lots of people posting similar results with Vista so not to worry. I think your HD is fine, it just has some different code following the MBR.

    I see where some have even reinstalled XP after installing Vista in order to restore the MBR but I'm not sure if that's wise. Then you would need to reconfigure the boot.ini file to allow Vista to boot. Then you would have a non-standard system that is clinging to the past.

    You either have to accept what MS dictates or go out on a limb.

    It looks like we are in for a new trip up the learning curve. :(
     
  5. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    No I am not :) the reference to bcedit in the boot.ini is a remnant of those days - if you see my revived thread you will see the steps I have taken to eliminate Vista and repair XP .....

    http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=62819

    IMO the Vista install wrote some code to the HD which I cannot erradicate. As I posted earlier I feel a format and a new HD coming on :(
     
  6. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    OK, I get it now.

    Well, why not use mbrwork and have it write all zeroes to the boot sector, both MBR and EMBR. Then let it install the standard MBR code. It does all that well. So long as you have your backup images, you have the risk pretty well managed. I think the EMBR is where your Vista code will be found.

    It can make a backup copy first so there's little risk. I have played around with it and never hosed anything yet.

    Reinstalling XP clean would also put the boot sector back to XP liking but that's much harder work.

    MBRWORK
     
    Last edited: 2007/06/07
  7. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    mbrwork is a new one on me :)

    So. If I understand correctly I would run mbrwork and then restore from an Acronis image - by booting from the Acronis boot CD? Never used Acronis to restore - just to image and check images.

    Then I should be able to make a repair install of XP?
     
  8. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    I was hoping for even better than that. I hope to fix the boot sector and still use the present drive data.
    I would do it this way:

    1. Make a boot floppy and place the mbrwork utility on it.

    2. Boot to that floppy and run mbrwork. Select to backup the first sector. Give the backup a name when asked so you can relate to it.

    3. Then record all of the entries that the XP partition is showing when you have it selected.

    4. Now you're relatively safe.

    5. Now allow mbrwork to write all zeroes to the mbr and embr.

    6. Allow mbrwork to install a Standard MBR.

    7. Review the setting displayed for the XP partition and see if you need to edit to get them back to where they were.

    8. Exit the utility and pull the floppy and reboot.

    9. If you don't reboot successfully, run the Recovery Console and do a fixmbr command. The while there run the fixboot command. That will get your boot.ini file back on track without manual editing. We can still manually edit it later if need be.

    That's what I think might do the trick for you but I'm flying from memory and hope i didn't leave any steps out. Analyze it and come back with anything that you have questions about.

    Basically what we are trying to do is wipe the Vista entry from the MBR and EMBR so that the Recovery Console will see the drive and be able to repair the boot sector.

    As you have said, you have plenty of backup images if need be when thing turn sour. I don't want to use any of them unless absolutely necessary since they will restore the boot sector with the code that contains Vista.
     
  9. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    BTW, deploying an Acronis image is a piece of cake. I assume you have made the boot disk and tested it, either floppy or CD.

    Be sure you can see the drive that has the images stored on it while booted to the floppy.
     
  10. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Many thanks - I'll give it a go.

    Just checking an up to date Acronis image that I have just made and will then update the backup of the other partitions on the drive.

    Fingers crossed :)
     
  11. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    Pete, I just tested the procedure and I can give further details now. Are you still there?
     
  12. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Yes - I have run into a problem.

    Using the same boot disk as earlier with mbrwork copied to it I cannot boot as before - hal error.

    Can I not run mbrwork from a command prompt?
     
  13. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    It worked for me and here's what I find:

    After booting the mbrwork floppy and starting the utility, I recorded all the setting for the partition i was working on. In my case it is partition 0.

    Then I selected menu item 1) and allowed it to backup the first track. It doesn't ask for a name so not to worry.

    Next I selected menu item 3) to reset the EMBR area to zero.

    Then I selected menu item 4) and reset the MBR to zero, ignoring the warning. (All partition info left the table at the top.)

    Then I selected menu item 5) and installed the standard MBR

    Then I selected menu item and 9) and proceeded to reenter the partition numbers i had written down earlier. If you get those wrong, just type Q and you can start over. When you finish it must be exactly as it was shown before except the 80 will not be there yet.

    Then I selected menu item 6) and set the partition active. The 80 will then be displayed to indicate an active partition flag.

    Then I selected menu item E) and exited.

    Upon rebooting, the system disk was not found so I booted to the XP install CD and invoked the Recovery Console by press the first "R" offered. Then select the proper installation to work on.

    Then from the command line I ran the fixmbr command. Then pull the CD and reboot. It then said insert boot disk. I don't know what that was all about so rebooted to the mbrwork floppy and found that all the partition entries were blank again. I reentered them as before and exited. Rebooting was successful and all is back to normal.

    That's all the details I can supply and I hope it's applicable for you. FYI, I have three HD's and I dual boot separate copies of XP. The Recovery Console only saw one OS although i had anticipated it would show both. Anyway, that's the drill.

    In review, I think you should try just writing zeroes to the EMBR and leave the MBR alone. Then you wouldn't get involved with the partition entries. That might accomplish your goal much easier. If not, no harm done.
     
  14. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    You'll have to format a disk in XP and tag the "make msdos start-up disk" option. Then put the utility on it.

    The utility will not run under Windows dos box.

    If this newly created dos boot disk won't work then Vista has us completely thwarted. I can't discount that possibility.
     
    Last edited: 2007/06/07
  15. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    OK - appreciate your help :)

    I'll go for it again and post back - either from here or the laptop :)
     
  16. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    OK, I'll check back later. As I always warn others, do be certain you are manipulating the correct partition. :)

    If all goes sour, you can run menu item 2) and put it back to the original version.

    I just remembered a little stumbling block that had me going for a while. When you select item 9) to edit the partition entry, the first number it asks for is the partition number as listed in the table above. It took me a while to realize what it was wanting. Then it proceeds to ask for the other numbers in the order they were listed, left to right (ignoring the 80 entry), as originally entered in the table. As I said before, the 80 flag will not be there until you run the item 6) command.
     
    Last edited: 2007/06/07
  17. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Well, I'm still here, but appear to have achieved nothing despite apparently writing 0's to the EMBR and MBR. Not everything went according to your list ...

    There was no 80 in the partition table

    When I attempted to re-enter the partition information it would not accept a 3 digit number in what I thougt was the appropriate column, so I hit A (/) to recover partition information and the correct values reappeared albeit against partition 0 rather than 1 where they were before.

    Despite that the computer booted up withput the need to resort to the Recovery Console and all partitions are still present and working.

    I still cannot perform a repair install as the CD still does not find an OS installed - I loaded the SATA drivers at the appropriate point in setup.

    I'm clearly out of my depth here and feel even more strongly that a new drive and a clean install is the way to go - or just live with the problems I have with this install.

    FYI the partition table read ....

    0 | 0 | 0 0 0 | 0 | 0 0 0 | 0 | 0
    1 |0 | 0 1 1 | f | 239 63 1023 |15120 | 234420480
    2 ) All zeros
    3 ) All zeros
    For partition 1 I could not enter the third digit of 239 and aborted at that point.

    Hitting A (?) restored the values above, but values for partitions 0 and 1 were transposed.

    Thanks again for your help - any further suggestions welcome!
     
  18. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    I should add that Recovery Console sees the Windows Installation although the install sequence does not.
     
  19. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    There are actually 9 partitions on the drive, but only 4 were shown in Mbrwork.
     
  20. 2007/06/07
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    I think you have fought the good fight and even though you haven't gained anything, you haven't lost either.

    I think this operation is hard to orchestrate from afar and would have been dangerous for someone without your insight. I wouldn't have started into this with anyone of lesser ability.

    That said and recognizing the caviat given by mbrwork ( MBRWork: Note: This utility should only be used by power users who understand how computers work.) I suppose we have done well enough.

    I still think it can fix your drive problem but it may take more hot licks than we can't do from afar. Feel free to try it again since you can see it is relatively safe.

    The missing 80 flag only means that the partition in question is not tagged as active and will not be bootable on its own (stand alone). It would boot in association with another bootable drive with a boot manager of some sort.

    If this all gets so convoluted as to be more trouble than worth, you may have already suggested the better solution - wipe the drive and install XP clean. Then you might even get by with deploying an older image of the XP partition onto the drive. If you connect the drive as the lone drive and install XP fresh, it will initialize the drive anew and write the new boot sector. I can't guarantee that a "repair install" will do that but I would try it first to see.

    Lots of possibilities but perhaps better for a rainy day diversion. If the system works as it is, there is lots to be said for that. :)

    All the best.
     
  21. 2007/06/07
    djmaxx007

    djmaxx007 Inactive

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    Also

    this happens a lot when the battery gets low on many wireless keyboards. the receiver should be plugged in to the ps2 or usb port obviously, and basic keyboard support is contained in the bios, not windows. this includes all F keys. so keyboard drivers are irrelevant when this kind of thing happens. when this happens again try a fresh battery and if that doesn't work then of course use a ps2 keyboard. check for obvious things too like making sure the receiver is properly plugged in. less work to try the battery thing and if it usually works
     

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