EMM386 won't load on boot

a couple of notes - the important bit's at the bottom

awhile back - I did try to put W95 on top of W3.1/DOS6.20 (not W3.11). I think it was because I just followed the easiest route, sort of hit OK to everything and that's what it did. It was my first go with W95...

I ended up with a lot of what I see in the dirlog of C: on blakstons, like the old C:\WINDOWS folder retained the earlier date. And I got left with WINA20.386 too, and there was a bit left in C:\DOS

I ended up having to give up on it - what finished it off was trying NU95 but it was a mess even before that...

==

about all the files 0 bytes and silly dates and times - they may look awful - but aren't they just files which were open when the PC ran amok?

'coz files only get blessed with size, date, time when they get closed...

just mentioning that in case its looking disproportionately bad to blakston... but it's just what happens, if the file never gets close the way it should that's exactly what you can get, 0 bytes showing, and time/date that don't mean anything at all. And bad FAT entries for the files...

OK there's a lot of them; OK it might overload repair jobs; but if no repair job is attempted - if instead, they just get left behind when the important stuff gets moved - has to be a better chance, surely

If this holds good: what really matters is that the user files we are trying to protect and salvage can be accessed OK, given the problem with the FAT for C:

When I do my backups from C: to F: say, it always messes the FAT for C:

because what I'm doing it with is really for transferring from old HDD to new HDD (it's the Western Digital EZ-BIOS floppy, can copy a partiton, really useful it is too)

here's the relevance though:

C:gets left reporting FAT errors, if you run scandisk (either) but these don't matter one jot; it's only one copy of the FAT that's in error. (blakston - there are several copies of the FAT for a drive) No files misreport length, or become inaccessible, or any of those horrible things which can happen as a result of File Allocation Table errors spotted by scandisk.

I can boot from C: when it's like this; W98 launches perfectly happily; the only way of knowing that it's happened seems to be defrag or scandisk - because these utilities compare the various copies of the FAT to check they agree with each other.

I think this matters here. Just because scandisk is reporting FAT problems does not imply there need be any problem at all with getting at the files - they may well be OK, we just don't know from what's been done so far.

At the worst the drive could be failing. But equally possible (to me anyroad), all the files could be perfectly OK - in terms of getting them copied onto a different partition. And when they are on the new partion the act of copying them has writtem new FAT entries which are good (check me pls - but is this not how it works)

sorry for being so long winded - but I think this is quite important.

It's no way proven there's going to be any hassle at all getting the user files over safely; leave the crud behind; leave the FAT problems behind - it might all pan out very well if done correctly and carefully.

and we could check this without any possibility of messing things up. not even hard to do, at least "test the water "

I think we should at least try to suss it out a bit before giving up.

Best Wishes, HJ

attempting to redirect the energy behind this from concentrating on what's wrong to trying to put it right anyway Ithin its time we got lucky

 

Hi Hugh,
I am not certain I understand what you just said...... Too much info to digest that I have no definition for in my experience.

Did you say, I could somehow look at my existing files and clean up or possibly eliminate the worthless ones and just transfer the intact uncorrupt ones to my partition Drive D???????????

 

blackston

I can see a good chance you can rescue all that matters, and would like to try a test, perhaps two

before any attempt is made to scandisk C: (any method)

we can test from the floppy. Not ideal but it will show what out chances are

I'm sorta assuming that you are going to get a new HDD to make sure of things - one day

but we could do a few things right now to show us "which way to jump "

how is the floppy drive in your friend's PC behaving, pls?

GL, HJ

 

Hugh Jarss

If you are referring to data files like I mentioned before about My Docs etc then fine.

Or any music files may be OK.

Just do not try to salvage ANY OS files.

And now that you mention it I believe I read something about SE ( maybe going ) over top of DOS 6/Win3.1.

If this is true then that could be part of the problem. Win95 would overwrite some of the DOS 6 files to make them compatable. 98 and above DO NOT do that.

If two version of DOS exist and the wrong version gets used then you can be in deep unrepairable doo-doo. Because the HD is set up and initiallized in DOS. The FAT(s) is ( are ) DOS

I do not believe DOS 6 is 32bit compatable.

And until something else or better comes along that is where I am putting the root of the problem. That DOS date of ?/?/1993 SCARES ME.

That brings up another idea ( be it wild or other wise ) IF the machine was ever set to be Dual Boot and it did not work properly. It can be Bye-Bye time.

That I did run into when I had DOS-Win3.1/95 as a Dual boot. I KILLED both systems.

BillyBob

 

if we can "test the water" and copy a file or two and show they're OK that's a really good reason to get the new HDD isn't it?
GL,HJ

 

Without being 100% sure that his is not a Virus problem I would be a little cautious of using floppys on someone elses PC.

UNLESS that party has a DAM good Virus program and activated at all times.

BillyBob

 

Hi,
My friend's floppy is fine. I simply rebooted and it was OK.

I donot know if my computer was set up to Dual boot, I don't even know what that is.

So what do we do next for the check? I have about 29 floppys if it is possible to transfer some important files to them to reload in a cleaned computer. Is that an option?

 

what I propose uses known OS file but will not transfer it and does not use D: or E: yet

I want to find out whether the FAT error actually matters like this

using the startup floppy:

(don't want to trust to fc on existing C

want to suss: starting "with CDROM" from floppy,

can we read the CDROM OK are the drivers OK for this CD drive; if so

we can run FC from location on CDROM, (mine isn't even compressed)

(NB my CD is FE so if anyone can let us know path to FC on the second edition W98 CD pls pls...)

so we try FC /B several known files comparing W98CD version to where they should be on C:

if we hit gold, we find files where they should be and check them for integrity at the same time

would be excellent pointer that the FAT error will not matter when it comes to accessing the actual user files

at least it would tell us if the whole thing is knackered.

blackston - next comes test to check we can read the CD OK...

 

Yes. It is a very good option if the files will fit on a floppy.

In fact it the best option to use.

BillyBob

 

I've been following this with an appetite for grabbing all the DOS info I can follow - you guys are good.

Now that you've come back down to my level, I guess it tough not to participate - comments with regard to current state of affairs - just disconnect the old drive for a much needed rest and use a new drive set as Master.

FDisk it, Format it and do your install. I'd stay away from your friend's XP Home, because you wont get around product activation if he's already the registered user and has done the SP1 update. You would want XP Professional, not Home anyway. That says -Win98

If you want to get real good - pull all your cards except Video and then do your install. You can add cards and drivers back in one at a time - minimizes any interrupt problems. Once you've got hardware installed - reload your software and tweak everything so its running good. Test drive it for a while.

Now - back to that problem drive - jumper it as slave and hook it back up on the same cable with the new drive. Boot that puppy up. Now you can go cruising for files to copy from your new drive (D) (alias of old C).

Simple and straightforward from here on out until you see whats salvagable from (D) - be patient get the new drive running right first.



Edit - OK, you guys aren't quite ready to do this - didn't mean to interfere - when you are ready, you have my .02 for what its worth.It's back to you gentlemen - I'll stay quiet.

 

greetings rockster well met

blakston wants it blow-by-blow thus (colours as before) I propose:

start from startup floppy, choose 1 for start with CD support

this will take a while (longer) but eventually you will end up seeing A:\>

now pls look above up a few lines. I want you to see something like

The diagnostic Tools were successfully loaded to Drive F:

and a line rather like:
Drive G: = Driver MSCD001 Unit0


can you please let me know if you see G, or another letter, or is there an error message?

GL, HJ

edited for correctness and colours

 

checklist - as I have it

A: will be the floppy
C: we don't touch (at this time)
D: will be partition2
E: will be partition3
F: will be the RAMDRIVE (pls don't worry about this) and
G: should be the CD ROM

 

Hi Rockster2U,,,Welcome to the discussion.

At this point I assume any progress is on hold until I can get another Hard Drive to hook up.
That will be a little while.

I guess this thread is dead till I get a new Hard Drive.
I will posy a new Thread When I can get a new hard Drive and get it loaded.
I will need instructions on how to Fdisk it. I have no idea what that means.

 

Basicly what Rockster2U is saying is;

Stop wasting time.

Bite the the bullet and start over FRESH. And get rid of the very possible case of Versionitus.

And I fully agree to pulling ALL cards except the video to do a new install. I myself do not but that does not make it the better way.

Starting in the middle with an already half trashed system is USELESS.

I guess I have said all I can think of so will just keep an eye out for when the new system is built.

BillyBob

 

blakston, can you see a line like the Drive G: line, pls?

or are we throwing in the towel here?

 

Hi Hugh,
OK,,,Drive G: = Driver G MSCD001 unit 0
Next is:
Drive H: = Driver MSCD001 unit 1
Next it says
To get help, type Help and press ENTER
Then is A:\>

 

Hi Hugh,
Still here,,,,,,,,, let's do the tests.

 

I have to get to the bank before it closes.
Be back in 1 hour.

 

good man don't give up quite yet!

now I'd like you to put the W98 CD into the CD drive pls

then I want you to do

A:\> dir g: <enter>

and then

A:\> dir h: <enter>

and let me know both results, even if they appear to be negative it tells us quite a bit

sorry for going slow I have to try and get it legible at your end!

GL,HJ.

 

ok blakston God Speed

an hour suits me fine I can get it better sussed meanwhile

==

rockster: (or anyone) if you have a second edition CD it would cut out a step if you could inform:

1. path to fc on the CD
2. check that it isn't compressed

else I suppose
g:\> dir /s fc.ex?
h:\> dir /s fc.ex?

will give it...

I must break for ~15 but will surely be back later

Very Best Wishes all, Hugh

==
first edition:

C:\WINDOWS>dir /s r:\fc.exe

Volume in drive R is Windows 98
Volume Serial Number is 5CF8-AB80

Directory of R:\tools\oldmsdos

FC EXE 20,574 11/05/98 20:01 fc.exe
1 file(s) 20,574 bytes