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BSoD on startup

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by TinyTuba822, 2010/01/15.

  1. 2010/01/24
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    I was not doubting the legality of your OS :) As I posted not a great deal of info available that I could find.
     
  2. 2010/02/04
    TinyTuba822

    TinyTuba822 Inactive Thread Starter

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    Ok, let this go for a week to see if more blue screens came up, and they sure did. Here are the last few errors that the computer actually logged. Some didn't get logged.

    ntoskrnl.exe -DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL 2/4/2010
    ntoskrnl.exe -DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL 2/3/2010
    ntoskrnl.exe -UNEXPECTED_KERNEL_MODE_TRAP 2/3/2010
    fastfat.SYS -FAT_FILE_SYSTEM 2/3/2010
    ntoskrnl.exe -IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL 1/29/2010
    ntoskrnl.exe -IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL 1/25/2010
    usbccgp.sys -SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED 1/25/2010
    ntoskrnl.exe -KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED 1/24/2010

    Some of them are different, but they involve the same file. Each time I get a blue screen, chdsk runs. When I do startup repair, I usually get a blue screen while its running, or it goes back to a previous system restore point that doesn't solve the problem.
     

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  4. 2010/02/04
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    It's difficult to say if this is a hardware or software problem ....

    You posted that the hard drive passed the quick and long scans so that is unlikely to be the source of the problem.

    Memory problems could be an issue, but ......
    The only satisfactory way of testing RAM is to test the installed RAM in various configurations. If you have a single module swap it around the slots. If you have a pair of modules run each one singly, swapping between slots; then run them in pairs swapping between pairs of slots. If you have 2 sets of matched modules do not get them mixed up.

    However given your posted experience and the fact that we are dealing with a laptop in which some of the memory is likely to be buried in the bowels of the computer - often under the keyboard this is not straightforward.

    Despite the quote above it would not harm to run Windows Memory Diagnostic which is built into Windows 7.

    If that throws nothing up you may have to bite the bullet and make a repair installation of Windows 7. This assumes that you have a full 7 installation CD - I don't know what Dell provide these days - a full install DVD, a Recovery DVD or a Recovery partition on the hard drive.

    It is not clear if data is lost making a Repair Install, but it most certainly will be using a Recovery DVD or partition as this restores the computer to the delivered state.

    So the message is - back up all your data and ensure that you have the installation media for any programs you have installed.

    There is no guarantee that a Repair Install or Recovery will solve your problem if it is the result of a hardware issue.
     
  5. 2010/02/05
    TinyTuba822

    TinyTuba822 Inactive Thread Starter

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    Pete, it sounds like a hardware issue, as the memory failed a stress test when I ran the dell diagnostics DVD. That was the only thing that came up when I ran both of those tests. However, I cannot open the computer until later today as I do not have a screwdriver on hand. In addition, a Repair Installation has already been done to the computer before I made this topic.

    Also, I only have a recovery DVD from Dell. I have a Windows 7 Professional CD, but the license is currently in use on my desktop computer, and I only have one license.
     
    Last edited: 2010/02/05
  6. 2010/02/05
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Good news - at least you have a candidate for the source of your problems :)

    If the laptop is still under warranty a clear case of RMA'ing it - if not try to ascertain which module/slot is faulty by running one stick of memory in each of the slots in turn with the second slot empty. Repeat for the second stick. If both sticks run OK in one slot but not the other you are looking at a faulty slot on the motherboard.
     
  7. 2010/02/05
    Gi0

    Gi0 Inactive

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    This one applies in every version of windows?Just asking,cause the reference i found in microsoft is titled Parity Errors in Windows 3.x..I always thought that if memtest found no error after 3-4 hours of testing,then there's no error to be found.
    I had no idea about this and i found it quite interesting,thus my first post:)
    Apologies to the topic starter for hijacking his thread.
     
    Gi0,
    #26
  8. 2010/02/05
    TinyTuba822

    TinyTuba822 Inactive Thread Starter

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    Pete, it's still under warranty and I took it over to Geek Squad. They ran their scan which also did a memory test, and they suggested reinstalling the OS. They wanted to do it for me and charge me $120. I'm going to try to obtain a copy of the OS myself, since it didn't come with one and it was supposed to.
     
  9. 2010/02/06
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Gi0 - Welcome to WindowsBBS :)

    The quote comes from a later KB - Parity Error Messages May Indicate Bad Memory which references W98 and Me.

    In our experience it is also applicable to later versions - there have been cases on the BBS where the memory has passed through a memory tester without issue, but has still been found to be faulty. The advantage of swapping memory modules around is that both the memory and the motherboard slots are checked out.
     
  10. 2010/02/06
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Tiny

    If the laptop is still under warranty it should be the supplier's responsibility to either fix it at no cost to you or to replace it. It is currently 'not fit for purpose' as we would say in the UK.

    As I understand it the Geek Squad are troubleshooters/repairer's - not suppliers. I must say that from what I have read here on the BBS from time to time that they are not highly regarded :) It is surprising that they failed to replicate the memory failure that the Dell diagnostics revealed. That does not fill me with confidence :)

    If they will not resolve the issue FOC your next port of call should be Dell.

    I would not think that a reinstall of the OS would resolve the problem - you have already made a repair install which comes close to a clean install.

    IMHO it is the supplier's responsibility to deal with problems like this - not for you to go spending $$ in the hope of fixing it yourself.

    Footnote ....

    You have a Recovery DVD from Dell - this will restore the computer to the state in which it was delivered to you - note that any programs that you have installed and any personal data will be wiped out. This is essentially the same as making a clean install with a retail OS DVD, the only difference being that you will not have any of the software installed by Dell and more importantly you will have to download and install the motherboard drivers from Dell - unless you also have a Dell driver CD.
     
  11. 2010/02/06
    Gi0

    Gi0 Inactive

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    Thanx for the info and nice to find you!A great site as far as i ve seen:)
     
    Gi0,
    #30
  12. 2010/02/06
    TinyTuba822

    TinyTuba822 Inactive Thread Starter

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    The only problem is that the recovery CD only has the Dell Diagnostics tests on it, and drivers. I think the recovery software is on the computer itself, but I'm not exactly sure where. When I did a repair install before, I didn't insert any CD's.

    Also, I was working with dell yesterday via the internet. The only thing the tech support guy did to get rid of the blue screens was remove some of my programs from startup, run CCleaner, and remove Zone Alarm. He told me that since I am using a 64 bit OS, I don't need a firewall or AV software. He also told me that Avast has a firewall installed in it, even though I only downloaded Avast! Antivirus.
     
  13. 2010/02/06
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Then you have a Recovery Partition on the laptop and the CD is, as you rightly say, diagnostics and drivers. It would be correct to assume that when you ran the Recovery function that the laptop was returned to the as delivered condition?
    Does that mean the BSOD issue is resolved?
    That is absolute rubbish - I am surprised at Dell coming up with an irresponsible statement like that - 32 bit or 64 bit has no bearing on this at all.
    Wrong again - Avast free is pure antivirus, Avast Internet Security does indeed include a firewall, but is not free.

    If you want a free firewall to replace the Windows firewall I suggest Comodo which I currently use on 7 x64.

    I am sure you mentioned to Dell that the memory failed the stress test? What was their response?

    Main question is are you still seeing BSOD's - if not I might point the finger at Zone Alarm which has been removed.
     
  14. 2010/02/06
    TinyTuba822

    TinyTuba822 Inactive Thread Starter

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    The very next boot up I did after he said that the BSOD's will be gone, a BSOD appeared, and the culprit is ntoskrnl.exe

    Yes, when he told me those things, I really wanted to smack him upside the head.

    Yes, I mentioned the memory failure test, and he ignored it.

    I have to locate the recovery software. When it asked me to do a re-installation, it came up during bootup before the login screen, since I got so many blue screens and couldn't get to the login screen.

    EDIT: I found the recovery software and have restored the computer back to the factory defaults. However I got two blue screens after attempting to turn my computer back on after the reinstallation. Dell is sending me the Windows 7 DVD that I am missing. This is sounding more like a hardware problem since the blue screens are still here.
     
    Last edited: 2010/02/06
  15. 2010/02/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    This is most frustrating for you :mad: I agree - a hardware problem and I would still put my money on memory - we don't have anything else to go on.

    You have run the Dell diagnostics - I wonder if you can run Windows Memory Diagnostics as noted in my post #23 for confirmation of a memory problem.

    Alternatively download WMD from here ....

    http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

    and create a boot CD to run it - full instructions given.
     
  16. 2010/02/08
    TinyTuba822

    TinyTuba822 Inactive Thread Starter

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    WMD didn't catch anything when I ran it, but I managed to find the option to restore back to factory defaults that I couldn't find before. When I told it to restore without backing up my files it started the process, and gave me a blue screen for "MEMORY_MANAGEMENT" at about 30% through the system restore. The computer no longer boots, so I had no choice to run to best buy, since that's where my warranty is.
     
  17. 2010/02/09
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    You did right - it looks like a serious hardware problem either with the memory or the motherboard slots.

    Please keep us posted as to the outcome.
     
  18. 2010/02/09
    TinyTuba822

    TinyTuba822 Inactive Thread Starter

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    That really looks bad on Dell's part, as this laptop was purchased at the beginning of December in '09 and I'm already having problems. Geek Squad says it will be at least another 3 weeks before I get the computer back. They have stated that it is indeed the memory.
     

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