boot disk preoblem win95b; ibm aptiva

hi sparrow
thank you again for answering...

windows does not have built-in drivers for this cd-rom drive so it should not comment them out

thanks for posting this url...
what they are talking about is the ibm cd (product recovery) which i can no longer use anyway b/c i have a 30 gb hd (with ezBIOS)
nb: even with ezbios and the 30 gb hd, i HAD been able to use the floppy boot diskette.

i will try changing start-up order to have 2nd device as the hd (instead of the cd-rom)

the issue i have though is getting the pc to recognize the cd-rom drive (in dos and with a proven floppy boot disk (made for this pc))
i have several floppy boot disks and they HAD worked insofar that the cd-rom drive with the normal windows95b cd (from microsoft) was recognized. now with the boot disk in a, i can boot to an a prompt but when choosing the option (on the boot disk) to verify the cd-rom drive, i get an error stating that it cannot find the cd-rom drive...

so my problem right now is that the cd-rom drive is not accessable using a floppy boot disk or msdos

NB: i am able to use this pc normally -- i just wanted to be prepared for disaster and have a floppy boot disk that works.........
and the floppy boot disk used to work (and did so with this 30 gb hd (with ezbios))
thanks!

(i apologize for being EXTREMELY unclear)

 

well i'd ask for a martini but i think i had better drink a gigaQUART of coffee

i read over my initial post and it really is unclear!

 

hi Zander,
thanks for the reply!

except that the normal pc does not have an ide cd-rom and can use generic (any) drivers for the cd-rom.

i tried the *fix* on Don's Web site and it did not work (plus gave errors re: not being able to find cd-rom drivers but did have the cd-rom in windows still)

(i also tried changing the start-up order [from a->cd-rom->hd to a->hd->cd-rom] no difference)
as far as the config.sys and the autoexec.bat, i don't know much <really anything> about them but have read that they need to match wrt ? drivers for the cd-rom (i cannot find the article) but this is what they are looking like now:
config.sys
;DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
device=C:\WINDOWS\cs4232c.exe
;DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001

autoexec.bat
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
C: \WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
PATH C:\PAGEMGR\IMGFOLIO;C:\PAGEMGR;

the part w/ the devicehigh is what i added from the Web site...

i believe that it is seen as ide -- i think since the cd-rom is with the power switch and the floppy drive in that media console (and they all reach the isa card ('media console controller card') and the pc recognizes the floppy drive.
also, watching the start-up literature on screen it mentions the atapi cd-rom (can't recall exact syntax)

not me

mscdex.exe is present but idecdrom.sys is not and i don't see it... not sure how to copy it ?edit on the file? and copy just the idecdrom.sys?

i did not have success using Don's route... and i want to wait re: copying the idecdrom.sys.
i'll post the dosstart.bat here
(in config.sys and dosstart.bat the lowest lines (which are now commented by me) are the added lines from Don's Web site
dosstart.bat
;C:\MOUSE\MOUSE.EXE
;DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001 /P:170,15 /P:1E0,11
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
;LH MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /L:G

Yes it has always been ide.
i think that the problem is that the windows95b cd does not have the ide cd-rom drivers...
THANK YOU!
sincerely
Tanya

 

If you haven't yet copied idecdrom.sys to your windows\command folder it wouldn't work. It needs to be there. To copy it, open windows explorer, in the left pane click on the a: drive and then in the right pane, right click on idecdrom.sys and choose copy. Then, in the left pane click the plus next to the windows folder, then click on the command folder. Now, in the right pane, right click on a blank spot and choose paste. That should do it. Don't forget to remove the semi colons from the front of the lines in the dosstart.bat and config.sys.

I did this sort of quick. Have to get going so I'll take a closer look at your last post when I get home later. For now, copy the file to the command folder and see if it works for you.

 

I'm going to butt in for a post or 2.

First you say the CD is connected via a ISA slot , then say shares an IDE connector with zip drive. Which is it ?

The "VIDE-CDD.SYS" works only with IDE conected CD's.
Going by the name only," idecdrom.sys" likely is for IDE cd's
Hopefully "IBMIDECD.SYS" is for the ISA slot card, but looking at the name ibmIDEcd.sys, it might also be for IDE connected cd's.

If the CD connects via the ISA slot , I think the driver needs to be from cd manufacture ? IBM may have made a special SYS for it.

When you was able to boot to the CD or have the boot floppy see it, did you change ANY hardware, like add the 30g hdd or the zip drive ?

 

hi and thank you again, Zander,

i will do this very soon -- thanks

i'll post back with the results shortly (with the semiColons removed)
thanks again!
sincerely
Tanya

 

hi TopFarmer,

i might be wrong about the zip sharing the controller with the cd-rom ... the cd-rom is apparently *only* connected to the media console controller card (in the isa slot); the zip drive is on its own controller........
i have to open it and cannot just now.
BUT: yes it and the floppy drive and the power switch connect to the board via a cable that goes to the media console controller card (in an isa slot).
i cannot find an online diagram of the motherboard.(unfortunately ibm took most of their references down)
also in the user's manual, it talks about being able to use 5 ide devices...
i have the service manual and will look at it later (tomorrow)

i have no idea which drivers are for what........
there is nothing in device mgr that indicates the media console controller card....

it is a mitshita cd-rom cr 583

i was able to use it with only c, with c and the slave drive; with and without the zip drive
thanks!
sincerely
Tanya

 

hi,
i copied idecdrom.sys into the windows:\command folder; uncommented config.sys and dosstart.bat, and started in ms-dos (cold boot) and initially, this is what i saw:

ATAPI IDE CD-ROM device driver version V 1.44 (10/19/1995)
copyright (c) MITSUMI ELECTRIC CO., LTD. 1994, 1995

ERROR: Unable to detect ATAPI IDE-CD-ROM drive
ATAPI IDE CD-ROM device driver not loaded.

[...]
... C:\> g:\
Invalid drive specification
so i was unable to use a cd-rom drive in ms-dos.

i believe however that this might actually be a positive since the drivers are 1995 and there is only 1 driver file (in command) that is 1995 which is ibmidecd.sys.

the config.sys (before adding the line from Don's site) has the following:
;DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
device=C:\WINDOWS\cs4232c.exe
;DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001

should i UNcomment the last line?
;DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
?
i read an article on making sure that *something* matches in both autoexec.bat and config.sys and i cannot find the article?

autoexec.bat
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
C: \WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
PATH C:\PAGEMGR\IMGFOLIO;C:\PAGEMGR

do you know what should match? maybe the IBMCD001? (i will try to find the article)
i appreciate the help!
thanks!
sincerely
Tanya

 

match /D:IBMCD001 in both config.sys and autoexec.bat (follows mscdex.exe in autoexec) as you have it now.

 

hi sparrow,
thanks for answering

i tried that but again got the errors that the cd-rom drivers could not be found

but this is what is written to the screen:
C:\>C :\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
there is a space between the 2nd C:space\windows\etc.

1. should there be 2 c's?
2. there is the space (between the c: \windows\)
3. also perhaps i should substitute the idecdrom.sys driver instead of the vide-cdd.sys?


thank you!

 

in autoexec.bat have

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G

Note: besure there is no space between C: and \ as you have in prio post dated yesterday May 27 11:52

in config.sys

DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001

If the above works, it will do so only if you have the current hdd in system.

If the cd drive works in WIn95 then what ever you have in autoexec and config on the hdd should be what you need on the floppy. With my old sys with win95 and a Mitshita cd connected to a sound card I had to use MTMCDAI.SYS, but with your IBM hardware IBMIDECD.sys with luck will work.

 

hi TopFarmer,
thank you........

i removed the space

luck ran out
this is the error:
[...start of command prompt...]
ATAPI IDE CD-ROM device driver version V 1.44 (10/19/1995)
copyright (c) MITSUMI ELECTRIC CO., LTD. 1994, 1995

ERROR: Unable to detect ATAPI IDE-CD-ROM drive
ATAPI IDE CD-ROM device driver not loaded.

[...]

C:\>C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
device driver not found: 'IBMCD001'
No valid CDROM device drivers selected
[...end of command prompt...]

i'm just wondering about the configuration of this pc: the media console controller card is in an isa slot.
so the card must have a driver shouldn't it?
the cd-rom is ide:
since it is ide, the driver for it must be a *normal* ide-cd driver?
maybe the config.sys and autoexec.bat should have another driver referring to the controller card in the isa slot?
(i.e. to point to where the cd-rom is located since it is not located in a default place?)
i appreciate the help!
thanks!
sincerely
Tanya

 

I did some testing on my old 486 machine with a Matsui cd connected to a sound card. I downloaded cdboot3 and tried to boot, it did not detect my cd "idecdrom.sys ". I added the routine to setup my sound card and this time when booting it did detect my cd.

The answer seems to be a yes, you do have to set up a driver in the config.sys, but I do not know what. Would guess it is setup correctly in the config.sys on the hdd. Have you posted the contents of config.sys and autoexec.bat from the HDD ?

 

hi TopFarmer,
appreciate the reply!
i have some good news...
and...some info...

i finally got it to boot with the floppy boot disk (cdboot3) by waiting with the diskette until after the post where ezbios text states to 'hold down control key to boot from floppy etc.' it works then. (i.e. it detects the windows95b cd (commercial from ms) in the cd-rom drive).
(the ezBIOS text does NOT appear when one starts the pc with the floppy boot diskette already in the a-drive.)

i also found some notes from the ibm Web site re: not being able to use the cd-rom in ms-dos. (these are from 2001 when i had replaced the original 3.2 hd (it crashed mechanically) with the 30 gb (with ezBIOS overlay) so the ms-dos issue is not *new*
this is what i found):

startOfIBMInfo
<edited>
Vide-ccd.sys is a generic DOS mode CD-ROM driver for IDE-ATAPI CD-ROM drives used in Aptiva systems.
You will need to add some lines to your config.sys and autoexec.bat files.

Supported machines
<snip>, 2159(ALL), <snip>

Editing your config.sys and autoexec.bat files
<snip>

7.Type DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001.
<snip>
autoexec.bat:
11.Type C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G.

Note: The /L:G switch sets the CD-ROM drive to drive letter G:.
endOfIBMOInfo

and these did not solve the problem

currently the errors:
start (nb i bolded the changes)
ATAPI IDE CD-ROM device driver version 2.15 19:25:36 02/09/99
copyright (c) MITSUMI ELECTRIC CO., LTD. 1994, 1995

ERROR: No CD-ROM drives detected at all.
Error: Device driver aborts loading

[...]

C:\>C;\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
device driver not found: 'IBMCD001'
No valid CDROM device drivers selected
end

(still don't know where the console drivers are?)

do you think it is in the windows registry?
(i know there are some programs that can id drivers but aside from other concerns, i doubt any of these could id the media console controller card drivers... it is not standard etc...)

i also have some more info:
this shows how to remove the media console (and make the pc into a *normal* one.)
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/joeyr76/pc/removal.html
(the links to the board and disassembly are 404's)

from sysedit?
(i changed them)
config.sys
;DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
device=C:\WINDOWS\cs4232c.exe
;DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001

autoexec.bat
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
PATH C:\PAGEMGR\IMGFOLIO;C:\PAGEMGR;
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G

and here's dosstart.bat (all from the hd)
;C:\MOUSE\MOUSE.EXE
;DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001 /P:170,15 /P:1E0,11
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
LH MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /L:G

(the above 3 gave the error situation that i posted above)

i REALLY appreciate the help! and thank you also for having tested the cdboot3 on your 486 pc!
sincerely
Tanya

 

I have decieded that the media console card is part of the motherboard and the bios will have all the routines in it to set the card up, so likely there is not a needed OS driver. (there is nothing in the config.sys setting it up)

If I under stand correctly, if you boot the floppy vial the HDD it will detect the CD drive ? That might be understandable , check the autoexec.bat and config.sys on the floppy. Does it have any paths to the hdd "C:" , till the hdd overlay is ran (booting to the hdd) the hdd can not be correctly accessed by any OS.

With a hdd overlay YOU MUST boot to the hdd and then select boot to floppy from its menu, if you want to use the hdd or any programs on it. There is no way around it.

 

hi TopFarmer,
thanks again!

ok

yes.
if i put the floppy boot diskette in drive a and then power on the pc, it passes the POST next i see starting windows 98... then the menu from the floppy boot diskette (with option c to make sure that the cd-rom drive can be recognized with the windows 95b cd (commecial)) next apears ?sorry :-( couldn't be found etc. etc...

however if i power on the pc, wait for it to pass the POST, and wait for the ezbios message "hold control key for status or to boot from floppy..." and THEN put the floppy boot diskette into drive a, the menu option 'c' verifies that the win95b cd is in the dc-rom drive.

?
these are from the floppy cdboot3 diskette
config.sys
device=himem.sys /testmemff
sorry should be testmem<colon>off
devicehigh=idecdrom.sys /D:cdbt001 /P:170,15 /P:1E0,11
files=10
buffers=10
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256
lastdrive=z

autoexec.bat
@echo off
set temp=c:\
set tmp=c:\
set path=a:\
lh mscdex.exe /d:cdbt001
lh mouse.com
menu.bat

does it?

i hope that without the hd (and its ezbios) i.e. if the hardrive dies the boot diskette will still work (i imagine it would)

thanks!
btw i found 2 old config.sys and autoexec.bat (from way before i had the 30 gb...)(done 1998)
i'll post them:

autoexec.bat
@ECHO OFF
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
PATH D:\PGRMR;D:\PRESTO;D:\UMAX;C:\IBMTOOLS
PATH=E:\BC45\BIN;%PATH%
PATH=C:\BC45\BIN;%PATH%
LH DOSKEY
C:\IBMTOOLS\RESUME.EXE
C:\IBMTOOLS\IBMPFILE.EXE
C:\IBMAV95\IBMAVSH /F00

none of the programs are on the pc now HOWEVER, LH DOSKEY perhaps i should add it to the current autoexec.bat?

config.sys
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /testmemff
sorry lol should be again testmem<colon>off
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS I=E000-EFFF X=F000-FEFF
FILES=40
BUFFERS=50
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\IBMIDECD.SYS /D:IBMCD001 /P:170,15 /P:1E0,11
device=c:\windows\cs4232c.exe

(what i wonder is why the cd-rom line has all the switches whereas the current one does not have the switches!)

finally, these are the current 2 files: (on the hd)
autexec.bat
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
PATH C:\PAGEMGR\IMGFOLIO;C:\PAGEMGR;
C: \WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G

config.sys
;DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
device=C:\WINDOWS\cs4232c.exe

(there is NO CD-ROM error with command prompt! -- using the above files HOWEVER still cannot access it in dos / command prompt)

p.s. i just found doskey.com in win:\command folder?

i REALLY appreciate and thank you for the help!
my original problem is solved (just wonder why it will not use the cd-rom in ms-dos...)
thanks!

sincerely
Tanya

 

If I understand correct , when done via the ezbios the CD is detected but when booting direct to floppy the screen displays No cd drive detected, drivers will not be loaded?

IF so there might be a problem with the way A:\wincd.com works when it can not see a good hdd ?? (only a bad guess)

Try makeing a boot floppy within win95 control panal-add remove programs and test it.

When booting directly to the floppy with your current hdd, remove from autoexec.bat
set temp=c:\ set tmp=c:\ it could cause undetermand problems . I have never used a hdd overlay program so not to sure what may happen, but it might not be to good.

IF you bios permits , it should , turn off or uninstall the hdd (that is within the bios) and test the boot floppy.

Not even sure what the problem was

 

hi and thanks TopFarmer

sorry -- the 'no driver' scene is when i try to use the cd-rom in dos (command prompt) when i have unCommented the lines in autoexec.bat and in config.sys
with the boot disk, if i try option c (to verify cd-rom dos support), i get the 'sorry :-( it was not found...'

i don't understand?

if i use the add / remove it won't work nor will the windows98 cd with a floppy

it was to make the pc boot with the floppy boot disk

i have a much bigger problem right now b/c the on/off switch has sunk / gone into the computer (last night) it is in ~ 1/2 an inch...
lol...
i'll try what you suggest (i will give add/remove programs and win98 cd methods a shot tomorrow...) and will remove the ; from the set temp=c:\ set tmp=c:\ lines
thanks!
i appreciate your help!
sincerely
Tanya

 

Hi tanya
I had to leave here unexpectedly, and just got back yesterday. Sorry. I see you managed to get it to boot from the floppy and have cdrom support. I didn't realize you weren't letting the drive overlay load before you booted from the floppy. TopFarmer's right. You have to let it load before you do anything. If you don't let it load, you won't be able to see the entire drive. That's why ezbios is there. Your bios doesn't support a disk that large and this is the work around for it.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that it should still boot from the floppy and give you cdrom support even if you don't let the drive overlay load. I've used Maxtors drive overlay in the past and the only thing I can think of that might be causing it is that perhaps ezbios has grabbed control of the IDE controller the cdrom is on. I don't really remember for sure how these things are set up in ezbios though. I know that when you boot the computer you should be able to enter the ezbios program and make various settings. It seems to me that you do this at the same screen as the one when you press a key to boot from a floppy. Seems to me it says something like press a to boot from floppy, press ctrl>a (or something else) to enter ezbios setup.

One of the things you could do in the setup program was choose which drives you wanted ezbios to control. Seems to me the default was for all hard drives to be controlled by it but it could have been individual IDE controllers too. Don't remember for sure. If you can get into the setup program you might want to look and see if ezbios is set to take control of the cdrom or the controller it's on. If so, change it and then try booting from the floppy without letting the drive overlay load.

It should but I suppose it's possible that if ezbios is controlling the IDE controller that the cdrom is on it may set that controller to none in your regular bios program. I don't really know. If it did and you removed the drive without uninstalling ezbios you'd probably have to first enter your bios setup program and set things accordingly.

If you ever want to format that drive for a re installation of windows you should be able to do that with no problems. Just be sure to let the drive overlay load before you boot from the floppy. You want to do this even if you don't plan on needing the cdrom drive. If you were to boot from a floppy without letting it load and then run fdisk, you'd soon find that fdisk won't see all of the drive. I'm guessing 8gb would be the max but I could be wrong. In any event, whenever you boot from a floppy, let the drive overlay load first. The only way around the drive overlay is find a bios update for your computer that supports 30gb hard drives. That's probably not likely with this computer but you might check it out.

As for the cdrom not working when you boot to DOS, if the driver idecdrom.sys works when booting from the floppy, it should work when you boot to DOS from your hard drive too. Make sure it's in your windows\command folder and then add the lines that refer to the cdrom from the floppy autoexec.bat and config.sys files to the autoexec.bat and config.sys files on your hard drive. You'll have to change the paths in them so they point to the windows\command folder. Then, instead of booting to DOS from the start>shutdown>DOS Prompt route, restart the computer and immediately after you see the ezbios thing you mentioned, start continuously tapping the f8 key. It should eventually stop at a menu. If you get there, select DOS Prompt only. Then at the DOS prompt, type x: (where x = whatever letter your cdrom is) and press enter. If it changes to a x: prompt it's recognizing the drive. If that works perhaps we can get it working when you boot to DOS the other way too. If you're still trying to beat this, give it a try and let us know if it works.

 

hi Zander,
i am really sorry for this delayed reply (circumstances beyond control) also the pc's power button has sunk into the media console. i think that the part i see (the button is horizontal now) is a piece of metal and a black dot on it which (i think) i am using to start and shut off...

i understand that however i don't know why the hd is even involved when i am using a floppy diskette.

i guess that ezbios is controlling the cd-rom drive controller...i thought that to use the ibm diagnostics and utilities cd (it is useless btw) one has to hold ctrl to boot from it (with the cd-rom in the cd-rom drive) (but see below -- no cd-rom drive option)

yup -- hit control for status screen or to boot from floppy...

this would be the ezbios screen and not the bios (ibm's surepath setup utility) screen i guess since ezbios shows up after the post.
i guess also that since this pc (and board) are old the cd-rom being ide is unusual so it will act oddly?

i would not use ezbios at all if i ever had to reload windows on this pc (realistically there is no way i would use > 8.4 gbs on this computer and harddrive)

it is 8.4 gbs max which is also what it is in the bios --

there is none -- latest is 1999...
(the only reason i have the 30 gb is b/c the original 3.2 gb hd failed mechanically)

currently i am very confused about which drivers to uncomment in the autoexec.bat and config.sys...wonder what would happen if i enabled all 3 -- my concern is that the pc won't boot...

the problem is that i do not know which letter to use. the cd-rom drive in windows and the dos prompt under windows is g:\
i'll try the above... also though fdisk in msdos (restarting in dos) has the hd as 29,xxx mbs (i.e. 29.x gbs) so to me that would mean that as you write above i should restart with ezbios and likely it would work (i.e. the cd-rom drive would be recognized by md-dos if it has the ezbios overlay)
wrong (it did not work)

on the ezbios screen, it has hd 1 (only) controlled by ezbios. and there are only 2 options below the status screen (ezbios' status screen)
press a to boot from a
or press c to boot from c
as i say i am really afraid of the pc not running if i edit the start-up files too much but i guess it would not hurt if i put all 3 drivers into both files? (the 3 are in command.com)
i thank you again for the help and apologize for the delayed reply!
sincerely
Tanya