Athalon 64, X2 or not

I'm fairly certain that the specific technology that went into the Deathstars (glass-coated platters?) is long gone. My last purchase was a Hitachi. I did alot of reading up of reviews, benchmarks, etc. and came to the conclusion that the Hitachi I bought simply kicked butt in it's category (250MB PATA).

It's usually not a good idea to be completely loyal or disloyal to a company forever. I routinely switch back and forth between ATI and Nvidia depending on whose got the better hardware in the price range I'm looking at.

Gary

 

Hey "O.C." Rockster2U,

How about some tweakin' time??

I have been reading a bit. Among other things, ASUS supplies an applet called AI Booster that "aims to overclock your PC without the need to do it through BIOS setup utility. You can now use this easy to use graphical interface. AI Booster will boost up your system's performance real time, without the need of restarting. "

Sounds cool. Any experience with it? If OK, I will install and we can get on the love train. Thanks, Lar

 

Hate to disappoint you but I have absolutely no experience with that AI Booster - maybe someone else can comment.

The first thing I would recommend is to download and install in its own folder, this little executable. You can then make a shortcut to it and drag the shortcut to your desktop or quicklaunch bar or make a program folder in your startup folder. I usually create a program folder under Documents and Settings>all users>startup>programs called PC Tools and then create a shorcut to that and put it on the quicklaunch bar. Then I dump shortcuts to various utilities in that folder. Regardless, before you start Overclocking, you want to get a good handle on stabilty - I will run this program (Jouni Vuorio's Stability test) for several hours and make adjustments to any settings if required. Then I will first start by slowly buming the multiplier in small increments. When I find a "wall" I'll bump my core voltage ever so slightly to regain 100% stability. Once stable, I'll assess changing bus speed and reducing the multiplier to get me back to the same overall speed and will keep working this angle until I hit the wall again. Now I've got a couple of targets, assuming my memory is still stable under all conditions. Lets use this approach for our initial adventures before we get down to somemore advanced settings. note : run that stability test after each change and pay careful attention because you have a normal mode and an agressive mode and can use both for fine tuning. Check back and we'll go further with some memory timings but this is going to require time and patience.

 

Larry, are you familiar with overclocking an Athlon 64? It's a whole new ball game from oc'ing an Athlon XP.

Googling on Athlon 64 Overclocking Guide will give you some info if you need it. Oc'in a '64 is far less of an exact science than it was on the Socket A platform.

 

Rock, I will digest your suggestions. I installed the AI Booster (AIB) and it shows the CPU stuff and does allow adjustments (somehow) but it seems to ignore the Memory adjustments. Acc to AIB, my CPU iand mobo are 39 degC. Are these good starting points?? I hope so because the Toledo chip already has a Zalman fan on it. I also installed PC Probe (no, not that kind) and it shows a bunch of readings. All seemingly good for keeping track of the o/c mod impacts. I ran the CPU Stability Test today (not home yet from work). I will report its findings. Turns out my son must HAD to ck on AIM. Will try it again tonight. Needs 24hrs. What will I get at the end??

Chiles, what is "overclocking "? LOL. Really, first time, period. Are the 64 and Opeteron 165 chips the same in this regard?

I am amazed that this is such a pain in the arse. Should be automated by now.

Thanks, Larry

 

be forewarned --> if JR put AIM on there and also included all the AOL connection manager, broadband, coach, search & AOL Browser stuff, you are already hosed.

 

Overclocking is the choice of the owner (and may or may not be offered by the CPU manufacturer). Automated?...until you see smoke rising from the back?
This is the realm that manufacturer's have not guaranteed. Here you "sneak it up a bit" until the system becomes unstable. You are making savings to go into those realms.

Make the most of your O'C experience. You are pushing that CPU pretty hard. I would not like to miss the opportunity to get "down and dirty" with my hardware like this.

39*C, sounds good, check all your monitors as you proceed.

Matt

 

Jr was only alllowed to install AIM, no other AOL cr*p. Even that was "Do I have to" on my part. There was definately no winning that one.

Re CPU Stability Test, can I surf (or AIM) while the test is ongoing? The prog notes do not say. Thx, Lar

 

Larry, since you used the term "oc" or "o/c" I thought you were familiar with overclocking.

Yeah, for all intents and purposes an Opteron is an Athlon 64. I usually recommend people do their oc'ing in the bios so they can truly grasp the elements of what they're doing.

OC'ing on an Athlon XP was more satisfying. The whole goal was simply to boost your FSB as high as it could go. OC'ing with an Athlon 64 is like trying to plug three holes in a dike with two thumbs. It's more "fluid" in nature and there is no exact goal to achieve though the basic goal on an Athlon 64 is to get your cpu running as fast as possible at the possible expense of other factors.

Another pointer is to try an get your RAM to run at a command rate of 1T. This is key for Athlon 64s. You can do this with one stick of RAM or two sticks of 512MB but forget about it with two 1GB sticks. With 1T enabled, your memory throughput figures go way up. But I think I'm getting a bit OT here...

And Larry, if you've got a possibility of a youngster installing stuff on your PC, you might want to image your disk while it's still relatively "clean" in case of possible infection by spyware or by AOL.

Gary

 

Hi Gary,

I do have 2x1Gb of PC3200. Sorry, but is "1T" a Bios setting for the memory? Fortunately, Jr is not prone to installing whatever and whenever. AIM is one of his mainstays but knows to ask first with other downloads and programs.

Can XP Pro do an image or do I need Ghost or something like it?

Hey Rock,

I am now running CPU StabTest 5.0. There is a 6.0 which has a GUI instead of CMD Prompt window. Which is preferable??

Lar

 

Yes, 1T is a bios setting concerning memory.

And you need a third-party app like Norton Ghost to make an image. Unfortunately, the latest Norton Ghost is a big piece of bloatware. I use Norton Ghost 2003 on a bootable CD and it works flawlessly.

Not sure what imaging app to recommend. I use Acronis TrueImage 9.0 and it's great at doing backups, clones, and images but I ALWAYS make sure I have a ghost image created by Norton just in case something goes flaky in Acronis. The irony is that I have had Norton images go bad but never had an Acronis image backup go bad. It's just that I've been using Norton 2003 since it came out years ago.

Gary

 

Hi, Larry.

Here are a couple links for studying background basics of memory.

Corsair Memory Basics Presentation
Requires speakers and Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Shockwave Flash installed/enabled.

Tom's Hardware "Ups and Downs: Memory Timings Put to the Test " (13 web pages)

 

Here are the results from my first CPU Stability Test (5.0). This is supposed to be a starting point for my oc holiday, right?

[SIZE= "1"]CPU:
ID: 15-3-2-0
Actual Speed: 1813 MHz
Info: Opteron 165

Test Results:
Errors: 0
Worktime: 1d, 0h, 0m, 47s

Other info:
MaxTempSize: 100 MB

System info
Owner: Larry B
CPU: Opteron 165
Motherboard: Asus A8n-Sli Dlx
Cooling: Zalman Al-Cu
RAM: 2x1Gb Corsair TwinX XMS
OS: XP Pro

Additional info:
N/A

Time: 9:34:09 PM
Date: 9/14/2006[/SIZE]

 

Larry:

Sorry to be so slow in getting back to you but its been a rough few days and my once bullet-proof 19 year old body got replaced somewhere along the way with a recurring herniated disc that every now and again renders me a horizontal mummy. Regardless, I'm up and about - walking and chewing gum at the same time again.

Your first pass on JV's torture test looks great - you have a nice stable system. I know, you're ready for next steps .......... so here we go. I didn't realize that Opteron was locked at the upper limit re: your multiplier so that actually makes our job a little easier - we can skip a step. Your multiplier is going to stay at 9 and we will have to make all adjustments to the (HTT) Hyper Threading clock frequency. What you want to do is push this in increments and then test stability with that same little tool. Easy does it here. Your Opteron should do about 150% with a little core voltage bump but we want to leave the core voltage alone for this first series of adjustments and longer term, we don't want to push that voltage very much at all. Go ahead and bump your clock frequency roughly 10-15% for starters. That should take you to between 220 and 230, which equates to 1980-2070MHz. Then run that tool again to check stability. Following that, I'd advise subsequent bumps in the 5% range and should you become unstable then we will look at your core voltage. If you become unbootable at any time, you will need to clear CMOS in order to restart. My procedure for this is to disconnect power to your machine, open up the case, disconnect the 24 pin power header from the motherboard, pull the CMOS jumper from 1&2 and place it on 2&3, wait 10-15 seconds, re-jumper 1&2, reconnect the power header on the motherboard and plug your computer back in. Boot to BIOS (del) and reset eveything as before.

The best place to read anything memory or BIOS wise is Adrian's RoJakPot. There is no better site on the Internet and there is both a paid subscription version and a free version. Here's a link to the free version. If you ever want to get sickly serious, I'd recommend subscribing. I'm also sending you a different link related specifically to your processor. Keep me posted on your progress and take little steps, not big ones. Good Luck.

 

Hey Rock, sorry to hear about your back. Been there. Every 2 years or so I lay for a week watching Rockford Files and Magnum P.I. reruns. Glad you are back on the trail.

Re: OC...

Allright, I am ON it!!

I did some research and I took the chance of starting at 240 since other "stories" indicate that bumping the HTT to 280 without a vCore bump is not unusual. Since the CPU Stability Test takes 24 Hours each time I run it, I would like to save some time. This incremental increase of 5%... would 15 Mhz be a little "too" rounded up?? Pleeeeeeez.

Oh, the ASUS manual says that in case of a need to reset the CMOS after over-overclocking, the BIOS has a feature with which simply re-booting will automatically reset the BIOS to default. Sweet.

I am also using CPU-Z to easily monitor the freq results of each bump.

What about your thoughts on JV's v6.0. I think I read comments from JV that one should know in just 12 hours if the system is stable or not. Any experience with it?

Gary, thanks for the image info. I hope to do that soon. I do have a copy of Ghost but not sure how to do the bootable CD method. I'll read up. I am already jazzed that my core speed is already over 2,150MHz!! Jammin'!!

Thanks, Lar

 

Lar ........

Sounds like you are well on your way. As to the size of the "bumps" - you be the judge - in the early stages, bigger bumps certainly aren't going to hurt you, but as you get closer to the envelope you'll need to keep the incremental increases relatively small. JV's 6.0 - if you researched it and feel good about it, go for it. The guy is one of today's geniuses and I can't see him putting out a newer version that would be anything but "better" than its predecessor.

I certainly don't want to jinx the situation but it sounds like another round of congratulations is in order. Just one question - any regrets regarding that HP machine at Costco?

Regards,

 

Thanks for the Congrats. I think it is a little early I certainly needed the kickass support that you have all given me. Thank YOU!!!

Honestly, I do have a few regrets, mainly about the time spent. Over time, that loss will be outweighed by the benefits of having a much better system over the long haul. That overview came from y'all.

BTW- Apparently JV had pulled the 6.0 when he went to payware. I was lucky enough to find it somewhere else. I only knew about it as I had seen screenshots of it in articles about OC'ing.

It appears that 240 as 250 will not even let it complete the boot and 245 freezes up. Meanwhile, are there any other factors that could be affecting this or is it off to vCore land already?? The OC birdies have mentioned that lowering the memory speed a little can have FSB benefits. Is that right, feasible, beneficial, advisable?? Also, what is Hyper Threading Frequency all about? Right now the vCore is set to 1.35v. JV's CPU Stability Test 6.0 seems prone to bugs and crashes. I have reverted to 5.0. I will download it again and try it again tomorrow just to see.

Side Note: I am about to post another question. Let me know what you think. I still have my old P-3 1GHz ASUS system and am thinking about reformating and going from 98SE to XP Home. I have already repartitioned the 80Gb primary drive to one single partition and my 2nd 120Gb HDD still has its original single partition. Is there an easy way to do this and is it worth it with this aging dinosaur?

Thanks, Lar

 

OK, a couple of quick comments. Yes, you are going to get more out of it by backing down your memory timings. This kind of goes to what Gary was referencing re: overclocking a 64 being an inexact science - an art if you will. What are you running at now re: memory timings? You can take a random shot at something like 3-3-3-7 or 4-4-4-8 but a little research on your specific memory should get us a better answer. I know you have XMS but what was its original rated speed - they have several different varieties, the best being 2-2-2-5, followed closely by 2-3-2-5 and 2-3-2-6.

Skipping around a little - your P3 is very salvageable and should run quite well with XP but I'd opt for Pro vs Home. A Home upgrade retails at $99 but I've seen it as low as $60 without rebates at the Box stores. Pro OEM is going to run $130-$139 and an upgrade is $199 - go with the OEM. I've put XP on machines as slow as 450MHz but use 750-800MHz as my own seat of the pants threshold for those wishing to convert from 9x or 2K. I do know someone who was running XP on a 233 but had shutdown all but 7 running services. A 1000Mhz PIII will run XP quite nicely with 512MB of memory.

As to your question regarding Hyper Threading Frequency - On AMD Athlon 64 CPUs, the term FSB is really a misnomer. There is no FSB, per se. The FSB is integrated into the chip. This allows the FSB to communicate with the CPU much faster than Intel's standard FSB method. It also can cause some confusion, since the FSB on an Athlon 64 is often referred to as the HTT. If you see somebody talking about raising the HTT on an Athlon 64 CPU and is talking about speeds that you recognize as common FSB speeds, then just think of the HTT as the FSB. For the most part, they function in the same way and can be treated the same and thinking of the HTT as the FSB can eliminate some possible confusion.

Another factor re: stability - FSB:RAM Ratio: If you want to raise your FSB to a higher speed than your RAM supports, you have the option of running your RAM at a lower speed than your FSB. This is done using an FSB:RAM ratio. Basically, the FSB:RAM ratio allows you to select numbers that set up a ratio between your FSB and RAM speeds. You are using the PC-3200 (DDR 400) RAM which runs at 200MHz. But you want to raise your FSB to 250MHz to overclock your CPU. Obviously, your RAM will not appreciate the raised FSB speed and will most likely cause your system to crash. To solve this, you can set up a 5:4 FSB:RAM ratio. Basically, this ratio will mean that for every 5MHz that your FSB runs at, your RAM will only run at 4MHz.

To make it easier, convert the 5:4 ratio to a 100:80 ratio. So for every 100MHz your FSB runs at, your RAM will only run at 80MHz. Basically, this means that your RAM will only run at 80% of your FSB speed. So with your 250MHz target FSB, running in a 5:4 FSB:RAM ratio, your RAM will be running at 200MHz, which is 80% of 250MHz. This is perfect, since your RAM is rated for 200MHz. Actually read as 2 x 200 = 400MHz

Larry, lets try changing some memory timings and the FSB:RAM ratio before we start looking at making any core voltage changes. We'll get some more speed with a voltage change (no question there whatsoever) but lets first see where we can go at 1.35 making a few other changes. Longer term, this is going to benefit you when we finally do nudge that voltage.

 

HI Rock, thanks for such thorough helpfulness.

1. Old System- I already have the XP Home. Any hints on how to easily reformat the drives and go from 98SE to XP.

2. OC re 100:80..... The only adjustment for memory is in the DRAM Config/Memlock Index Value which is currently 400MHz. Is that the "ram speed" adjustment you are talking about?? Does this indicated that my CPU/mem ratio is asynchronous as I can set it independently? Does it also indicate that I am already at 5:4? There appears to be no "ram divider" setting per se.

3. OC - There is an adjustment called Hyper Transport Freq that ranges from 1x to 5x to AUTO. It is currently set at AUTO. Can I play with that, too!!

4. OC- The factory mem timings for the XMS is 2.5-3-3-6 at 2.75v for AMD boards. I had bought them thinking that they are CAS 2.0 as adverstised... but that damned asterisk got me again (its only 2.0 with Intel). I have the BIOS set that way at this time. I have tried 3-3-3-7. I see no difference in core speed. Will I instead see its benefit in my CPU Freq ceiling?

5. In CPU-Z, the memory timings are called out are those that I set in th BIOS, but in SPD, they are different. What does that mean? Are those the default BIOS settings?

6. OC- I saw a website a forum entry from user that has my same mobo/CPU and memory.

Any thoughts?? Looks like he got a 2601 Core Speed by using a 12.5x multiplier (my max is 9) at 208MHz FSB, 2.52 is unknown to me at 1.568 vCore.

Thanks, Lar

 

I decided to input the infamous 2-2-2-5 timing into the BIOS and see what happens. Whoa!! Deeeednt like dat wun bit. Nosireeeeeeee. BIOS ROM Checksum error.

Even the reset jumper didn't help that one. Luckily the mobo CD is designed to reset the BIOS to default. Last chance before Willoughby.

All back to our previous status. Still hunting for that 2.5GHz Core Speed!!

Thanks, Lar