CPU Clock Multiplier

Hi all.

I think this is a Hardware problem, if not, please move it to the appropriate forum

I don’t know exactly when this started. But it happens now just about every time.
I have a 3000+ Athlon XP Mobil CPU in my E-Machines Computer and it is working fine. When I Encode some movie I always adjust the multiplier to 14 and it will cut the time to do this in halve. The problem is that when I adjust it back to 6 ( that is the startup speed) My monitor goes black. The Case fan is still going and the hard drive light is on, but nothing is happening anymore. I have to press the power button to shut down and then reboot. This happened in the past once in a while, but now it happens almost every time.

I use Central Brain Identifier and oversoft CPU informer (not at the same time) and both have the same problem. I can adjust up, but not back down.

Since both Programs are doing that, I think this is a Hardware problem.
Thanks
Sven

 

Update

Within the last hour I also downloaded and tried RMClock, 2 versions (1.4 + 2.2) same result. Monitor goes Black, all fans are still spinning and HHD Light stays on.
Oversoft Informer gave me an error stating that it has encountered a problem and needs to close aso and wants to send a report to MS.

Anyone?

Thanks
Sven

 

Sven:

It took me a couple of reads, but if you have an AthlonXP M 3000+, the multiplier is 16.5 running at stock speed on a 266Mhz (133x2) system bus. This is an unlocked 462 pin Barton core processor which will run on a 400 Mhz system bus. In fact, its one of the best overclockers ever made. Now, if you have a 754 pin 64 bit 3000+ Mobile, that's a different story. I've done quite a few systems with 32 bit AthlonXP Mobiles but would appreciate confirmation re: your processor, as I'm in a bit of a fog due to your comment on the muliplier set at 6. I may or may not be able to help.

 

Are you sure about that, Rockster? I run an AthlonXP 2600+ Mobile and the default multiplier is 6 and the default bus speed is 166.

Sven, when you adjust the multiplier down are you going into the bios to do this? Or are you doing it through a Windows software app?

 

Thanks to both of you for your post.

I have several clock adjusters that I tried. See my first post.
I do this from within windows and do not go into the BIOS.

The startup clock is set to 6. I think that is how they set it at AMD. I can set it to 16.5, but that will make it very hot in a very short time. That is why I set it to 14.

Rockster, you are correct, it is an AMD Mobile 3000+ Chip. FSB 266.

Thanks
Sven

 

Chiles4:

Am I sure? Since all I've ever done is drool over this particular processor, no I can't be. Here is where I pulled that spec but I've got a decent amount of experience with 2500+, 2600+ and 2800+ Athlon Mobiles and am easily able to get 12x200 from 2600+ and 2800+ so 16.5x133 sure sounds like the correct spec to me. I also think the 2600+ is 15 for a Barton and 16 for a Thoroughbred. Perhaps the confusion comes in with 16x133 being the same as 8x266 so perhaps its related to how the specific motherboard BIOS designates the system bus. DFI and ABIT both use 133 (166 on a non-mobile Barton) and I think ASUS boards were the same.

Still one heck of a family of CPU's any way one measures it.

As to the software overclocks - haven't done much in that regard since a little 200Mhz (actual speed) WinChip that I pushed to the 230's, and SoftFSB was probably the best solution I found at that time. As to OC'ing in general, if I can't set things in the BIOS, I don't venture at all. Unfortunately, I have a sneaky suspicion that a standard emachines BIOS is going to be somewhat crippled so Sven probably doesn't have many options outside of a software solution. I'll do some hunting. Sven - can you give us a Motherboard model # and revision #?

 

Thanks for trying to help.

The MB is a L7VMM rev. 1.0

Hope this helps.

In the beginning I never had that problem. The programs where working fine.
Since all do the same thing, I suspect a hardware problem.

Thanks Again
Sven

 

Sven:

Looks like this was a standard ECS motherboard and I'm linking you to ECS here for this board revision 1.0a. Are you running the emachines BIOS or one straight from ECS? This may be the wrong Rev# so check the descrepency between 1.0 and 1.0a but there was a reference to correcting a checksum error in the latest ECS release. I also noticed that you can adjust the system bus in the Advanced Chipset settings page (ECS BIOS) - looks like one can go beyond 140Mhz without too much strain on the AGP and PCI bus speeds. Maybe you are already there but if not, you may want to give the ECS BIOS a try. If you are a skeptic, you can email the BIOS files to jack@badflash.com and he'll program an extra chip for you. I'll also look for some beta and custom written bin files but don't hold your breath just yet.

Personally, your (software) multiplier settings on the low end (6) seem too low by my thinking but you are the one in the hot seat. I'll get back to you after I get a chance to do some more investigation. Also curious as to what you are running in terms of the HSF - your "very hot" comment is out of character for an Athlon XP mobile, especially at stock speeds. Even with a sizeable bump in core voltage, these puppies should run in the high 30's low 40's until they are really pushed.

 

I found this wiki and it looks like I was way off on the specs of mobile XPs. I think all these chips default to 6x multiplier because the desktop mainboards don't recognize them. And their FSB is 133 not 166 as I said above.

Sven, if you can't find a solution to your problem, you might consider leaving your rig permanently overclocked. I had a Mobile 2600+ which I ran constantly at 12.5x200=2.5Ghz (IIRC) with no troubles. (But I have to admit, to get it stable at that FSB, I had to do the L12 socket-wire trick but you wouldn't have to do that if you simply upped the multiplier) You'll need some serious air cooling - and chances are it wouldn't be quiet. One piece of trivia to keep in mind is that there are only so many times you can write to your bios chip. After a certain number of writes (1000-2000?) you can't do it anymore - so I've heard.

Sounds like you're the perfect candidate for AMD's Cool'n'Quiet in the Athlon 64 platforms.

 

Gary:

This catches both of us with a little 'brain cramping ". I just went back and edited an earlier post to reflect 166Mhx (333) on "non-mobile" Bartons to clear any confusion but I suspect that you, like me, always used these at 400 Mhz (200x2) instead of the 266 published bus. Who ever thought of running these things at stock speeds - what a crazy idea?



edit: as to Motherboard recognition of same - thats one of the things that made that Abit NF7S Rev2 so great.

 

Rockster,

I upgraded my computer a while back and you can still read about it in a previous set of posts by me, you and mattman, called " 3000+ with 266 fsb? "
I don’t know how to link to it.
In post 19 it talks about my bios upgrade and in Post 20 it talks about Right Mark Clock utility. At that time all was working fine. I could go all the way to 16.5 and back to 6 after I was done. It is only lately that I was getting errors from windows telling me" cpu informer has Encountered a problem and needs to close" Then, within the last month or 2 I can not reduce the clock at all. My screen will just go black and the HDD light stays on and the Case and CPU fans are still going.

I do not set the multiplier to six, it is the start up default setting. When I bring it up to 16.5 the temp goes up to 61c and that is when I will go back to 14. the temp then stays at about 57c. I can not do that anymore because of the shutdown. Same happens when I go back to 6. when it is at 6 the temp is at about 40c.

I tried messing with the setting in my Bios, but that will freeze my system.

Thanks
Sven

 

Sven:

I just read the thread you referenced. You appearently have a very good BIOS which includes either a beta or custom written bin that recognizes this CPU. Because of the temperature differentials (today vs May 2005), I would suggest that you clean your HSF with a small but wide artist's brush and canned air (thats what I use). And, since its been two years, I'd also look at the case fans and either clean them or replace them. There has to be a reason why you are now running hotter and you should be able to correct this.

Since you once had everything working just fine and now are struggling with what I have referenced as your software overclock, I'm not as inclined to be looking for a "hardware" solution. Before dismissing this however, you want to take a closer look at two other "points of interest ". Visually inspect all of your capacitors and look at your chipset fan (either a fan/heatsink or a bare heatsink). It may smart to upgrade this also. SVC is a good place to shop for this and case fans.

Now, it may be time to install process monitoring software to determine just what is going on and hopefully your problem's origin. Mark Rusinovich has written some very good software for this and someone else may have another recommendation. I also believe there was a recent release of an upgraded version and will check this out for you. In the meantime I would be curious to know if you are getting any kind of repetitive pattern of errors in your Event Viewer - check for both Application and System errors.

I don't want to turn this into one of those smorgasbord posts which throws out umpteen different ideas hoping at least one has some validity, but I would like to know if you have updated any motherboard or more specifically chipset drivers since May of 2005. If so, I'd reinstall your original drivers.

Keep us posted and thanks for referencing that 2005 thread - it is very helpful knowing the bigger picture.

 

Hi Rockster

The temp in 2005 in post # 24 was a misread. I was looking at the wrong readout. I corrected it in post # 26. Running at 6x the temp is 47c and at 14x is 57c.
Only when I go to 16.5 will it go beyond 60c. I throttle back to 14 when it happens.

As you suggested, I cleaned out all the dust bunnies’ with compressed air, and looked at the mother board, but I can not find anything wrong with it. Not sure what I am looking for to tell the truth.

What, for instance. Is HSF?

The fans for the CPU, the case and the power supply are working fine.
Here is the event viewer readout for CPU Informer the last time it gave me an error.

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 4/15/2007
Time: 2:10:38 PM
User: N/A
Computer: SVENALBRECHT
Description:
Faulting application cpu informer.exe, version 0.9.5.0, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x83f44589.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 63 70 75 ure cpu
0018: 20 69 6e 66 6f 72 6d 65 informe
0020: 72 2e 65 78 65 20 30 2e r.exe 0.
0028: 39 2e 35 2e 30 20 69 6e 9.5.0 in
0030: 20 75 6e 6b 6e 6f 77 6e unknown
0038: 20 30 2e 30 2e 30 2e 30 0.0.0.0
0040: 20 61 74 20 6f 66 66 73 at offs
0048: 65 74 20 38 33 66 34 34 et 83f44
0050: 35 38 39 0d 0a 589..


A second error report below does not even give me the Software that has the problem:

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1001
Date: 4/14/2007
Time: 10:41:35 AM
User: N/A
Computer: SVENALBRECHT
Description:
Fault bucket 380314947.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 42 75 63 6b 65 74 3a 20 Bucket:
0008: 33 38 30 33 31 34 39 34 38031494
0010: 37 0d 0a 7..


I have about 4 of the one below on each and every day!!

Event Type: Error
Event Source: W32Time
Event Category: None
Event ID: 29
Date: 4/17/2007
Time: 5:11:13 PM
User: N/A
Computer: SVENALBRECHT
Description:
The time provider NtpClient is configured to acquire time from one or more time sources, however none of the sources are currently accessible. No attempt to contact a source will be made for 14 minutes. NtpClient has no source of accurate time.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.


Last, I did not change any driver, unless ms is doing it through automatic updates.

Thanks
Sven

 

Hello SVEN,

I will put in some thoughts, but I don't use overclocking, so some of the figures might go past me.

You seem to have several CPU "clocking control" programs running at the same time. They may be conflicting.
To control the CPU in such a way, the clocking program will need to control the BIOS settings and I would expect that they would need a very good set of chipset drivers to do so (look up any motherboard manufacturer's FAQ's as to why third party programs cannot read temperatures and voltages correctly).

It is getting worse...
I am wondering if the Northbridge chip might be getting overworked. The Northbridge chip controls the AGP and might explain why the screen goes black. This might go back to cooling(?)

http://martybugs.net/wireless/openwrt/timesync.cgi
This program will be trying to control the time settings over both Windows and the BIOS.

I don't like trying to control the BIOS from inside Windows (at least without perfect drivers).

Matt

 

Hi mattman,

I think you misread that. I have several Clocking control programs, but I only use one. I downloaded the others to confirm that it is not the software that has the problem. All 4 programs have the same outcome. When I throttle back to 6x, they make my monitor go black and nothing works anymore.

I don’t think Temp is a problem, because this happens even if I just launch the program and set the clock to 14 and then immediately go back to 6, the screen is black. It had no time to heat up.

However, my Northbridge chip might be going bad.
How do you know? Can you test for that?

Sven

 

Very doubtful that this is the case. You would be well served to focus on drivers. Matt and I have been doing a little conversing behind the scenes, discussing your situation. The first thing that jumps out at me is your temperatures. 32 bit AthlonXP+ mobile chips usually run much cooler because they run at a lower voltage. I have a tough time getting beyond mid 40's even when severely pushing things yet you are referencing 50's and 60's while running below stock speeds. Now, I'm talking almost a 33% overclock running in the low to mid 40's versus your eclipsing 60° with no overclock. That tells me there is considerable room for improvement re: your system's overall cooling. This could be a major contibutor to your problem but I don't think its the primray cause.

My best guess at this point (yes, its only a guess at this stage) is that you need to rollback your chipset drivers and see what happens.

 

Rockster,

Let’s say the temp is too high, how do I get it lower? Do I need to replace the Thermal grease? Or even the heat sink? The heat sink was new when I installed the CPU and it was rated for a 3600+ AMD.

As to the chipset driver, I did not replace any. Unless MS is doing that with there updates.

How do I proceed?

Sven

 

Sven, heat/temperature also means the removal of heated air from the case. The cooling system depends on transferring heat to air via the heatsink. The heated air then needs to be removed and replaced by cool air (BTW, HSF=Heat Sink Fan). The case needs a steady flow of cool air flowing through it or heat will not be removed. I mentioned the Northbridge chip, it will be the second largest chip on the motherboard and probably has a heatsink over it and maybe it's own small fan. You can test if the case has enough cooling by removing the cover/panel and maybe even directing a desk fan into it, that will reduce temperatures (supply cooled air) and allow you to decide if

1) You need to remove the heat from the chips/processors. 2) You need to remove the heated air from the case.

Software/drivers...
First look at that time synchronization program which is giving you the blue screens. I would uninstall it. I would uninstall all the CPU clocking programs, then find updated chipset drivers. I would then test changing the CPU clock settings through the BIOS rather than using third party control programs.

"It is getting worse..." sounds like hardware is being overstressed and is slowly breaking down to me.

With overclocking, you may be stressing other parts of the system apart from just the CPU.

Matt

 

Sven:

Matt has just put forth an excellent overall strategy and course of action which I fully endorse.

All Others: Its important to understand that Sven really isn't overclocking his processor. Its actually underclocked when running at anything less than a 16.5 multiplier on a 266MHz bus (133x2). He is using a software tool to set the multiplier because he can't do this within his BIOS and as Chiles4 suggested, it appears his motherboard and BIOS can not identify this processor.

I think the ultimate dream world solution would involve modifying the actual BIOS bin files but finding someone who can do that or has done that for this board and CPU may proove to be next to impossible. Since Sven once had it all working quite well, the immediate challenge is getting him back to that condition and Matt's recommended approach looks like a very good one.

Sven: If you are using anything other than Artic Silver on your CPU heatsink, replace it. I think your HSF is fine other than that (provided it is squeaky clean). My earlier reference to capacitors may have been confusing - they are those little garbage can shaped things on your motherboard - if any are bulging or show signs of leakage or discoloration, please let us know.

 

Rockster, mattman,

Thanks for you help.

I will be getting some arctic silver and replace it.

Now that I have a better idea on what to look for I will also inspect the MB again.

As to ship set driver, I have no idea where to find them. I will uninstall all clock modifiers. I don't know what program is trying to get the time that gives me the error. Any idea where to look?

I have too fans in my System, 1 is in the power supply the other is mounted to the back of the case. Of cause there is 1 on the CPU. There is none on the other chip, just an aluminum heat sink.

I have some things I need to do over the weekend and on Monday I will be going on a business trip for 1 week. I will try to post again before I leave.

Again, thanks for your help
Sven