Resolved Seeking suggestions for fast components for new computer

Could you help me to understand the technological advances of the 5930 vs the 4790?

 

No disrespect or offense intended. You came here for help because, I assume, neither you or your son are computer hardware experts. I am, and providing sound advice for your stated tasks is all I am trying to do.

Fair enough. But I then would ask that you consider that someone with their own list of respectable credentials in computer hardware might know hardware better than you or your son. I don't have a PhD, but you can follow the link in my sig to determine if I might have some advanced expertise in computer hardware.

I never said they make no sense. In fact, they make perfect sense. I am just telling you he is building a gaming rig. Not a research or a CAD/CAE computer. So he can state his priorities are engineering tasks all day long. That does not mean the components he is choosing fall in line with his stated priorities.

And sorry, but your car analogy is not relevant. This has nothing to do with ancient technologies (the Fairlane) vs. modern technologies (the state-of-the-art Tesla). All components listed are modern components. This is about picking the right tools for the "stated" tasks!

If you want a vehicle for "play ", you can buy a brand new state-of-the-art sports car. If you want a vehicle for "work ", you can buy a brand new state-of-the-art pickup truck. Can you tow a trailer with a sports car? Sure. Can you race around in a pickup? Sure! But are you using best tool for the job. No.

Again, sorry if I offended you.

 

Thank you for all your suggestions. They have given us much to think about and discuss. He is now finalizing his decisions and will start building this computer. It is always nice to know that windowsbbs.com is available to share multiple perspectives and helpful assistance. You are a great asset to anyone who wants to better understand computers.

By the way, for those who aren't familiar with using GPUs for parallel computing, here is a link that discusses that: http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home_new.html

Here is another article explaining how the GPUs my son chose (04G-P4-1972-KR) are the most advanced CUDA GPUs ever made: http://devblogs.nvidia.com/parallelforall/maxwell-most-advanced-cuda-gpu-ever-made/

 

All well and good but irrelevant as workstation cards have GPUs too.

 

I understand going with 2X16GB DDR400 allows possible additions in the future, over 4X8GB DDR400 (and costs nearly $200 more), but what other advantages/disadvantages would there be to going 2 sticks or 4 sticks (Crucial CT6204362 $622 DDR4 PC4-17000 • CL=15 • Dual Ranked • x4 based • Registered • ECC • DDR4-2133 • 1.2V vs Crucial CT6204365 $434 DDR4 PC4-17000 • CL=15 • Single Ranked • x4 based • Registered • ECC • DDR4-2133 • 1.2V • 1024Meg x 72)?
Another option would be to buy 2 unmatched single 16GB sticks for a total of $426
They also have:
part #:CT6220844 $499
• DDR4 PC4-19200 • 16-16-16 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR4-2400 • 1.2V • 1024Meg x 64
part #:CT6204341 $419
• DDR4 PC4-17000 • CL=15 • Dual Ranked • x8 based • Registered • ECC • DDR4-2133 • 1.2V • 1024Meg x 72
part #:CT6204371 (very low profile, as compared to standard profile up above)
• DDR4 PC4-17000 • CL=15 • Single Ranked • x4 based • Registered • ECC • DDR4-2133 • 1.2V • 1024Meg x 72
part #:CT6204360 $419
• DDR4 PC4-17000 • CL=15 • Dual Ranked • x8 based • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR4-2133 • 1.2V • 1024Meg x 64 •



It looks like I have to RMA the Antec 302, as it isn't configured to accept 240mm closed-loop water coolers. I've put together a list of some compatible cases for my son to look at, but I'm open to comments/suggestions from any of you. The list is: Antec P280, BitFenix's Ghost or Ronin, or Fractal Design's Arc Midi R2, Core 2300, FD-CA-CORE-3300-BL, or Define R4. These 7 are compatible with his system and are mostly under about $80. He needs something that can handle his ASRock X99 Extreme 3 MOBO, 2 Evga 04G-P4-2974-KR GPUs and a 240mm or 280mm closed-loop radiator, is quiet, has good air flow and cable management, has 2 exterior 5 1/4" bays, 3 interior 3 1/2" bays and 2 interior 2 1/2" bays. I'd like to hear your experiences with these or similarly configured and costing cases.

 

Bad idea and NOT an option, in my book. To ensure "dual channel" is enabled for the best RAM performance, you need to install RAM in matched pairs. I recommend you download the motherboard manual and read up on selecting and installing memory in that motherboard. And while on the website, note the QVLs (qualified vendors lists) for RAM and CPUs. Note you MUST buy a listed CPU. But there are too many RAM makers and models for motherboard makers to test them all, so you don't have to buy listed RAM, but you must buy RAM with the same specs as listed RAM.

On that dual-channel memory architecture motherboard there is no real "performance" advantage with 2 sticks or 4 sticks (assuming they total up the same). But as you noted, 8Gb sticks are lot less expensive than 16Gb. If you go with 2 x 16, you have room to add another 32Gb for a total of 64Gb in the future without tossing out the old 8Gb, if you went with 2 x 8 at the start. But 4 sticks consume twice the power as 2 - even if the total RAM amount is equal.

As I noted earlier, I don't go for cases with fancy facades or flashy lights. I expect my cases sit quietly and discretely off to the side and NOT draw attention to themselves. I don't want to be distracted by my case when I'm trying to pay attention to what is being displayed on my monitors. Most Antecs are rather plain looking (a good thing, IMO), though some come with blue interior lights. I don't see the point, except to allow you to inspect through a side window for dust build up.

I've had a couple builds with that Antec and it is a nice case (but then I like Antec cases). Removable washable air filters are must for me (I don't like breaking down systems to lug outside to clean) as I don't have to clean the interiors near as often. "Blowhole" (top mounted) fans generally provide great cooling as they take advantage of heat's natural characteristic of "rising ". But fan noise can become obtrusive if the fan throttles up to full speed - especially with lessor quality fans that use lessor quality bearings and poor aerodynamics. Fortunately, Antec makes excellent fans too.

But it is a heavy case. And once fully populated with parts, is even heavier. Not fun when lugging outside for thorough cleaning of the heat-blanketing dust that WILL be drawn in - even with cases with air filters.

BTW, I recommend you download and read all the manuals for all the components now, to get familiar with the features, installation, etc. before delivery and impatience to put it together sets in. Pay particular notice to mounting and ESD control.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

I figured the unmatched sticks would be out, but I presented it as it is an available option. It looks like the system-compatible Crucial options that make most sense would be:

Dual-sided non-ECC unbuffered 2133 4X8GB for $391.94
Single-sided ECC registered 2133 4X8GB for $433.98
Single-sided non-ECC unbuffered 2400 4X8GB for $485.00

Does it matter if I go ECC registered or non-ECC unbuffered? I figure I listed the RAM from slowest to fastest. Would there be significant improvements warranting the extra cost?

I've been checking out the manuals. I assume you mean electrostatic discharge when you say ESD control.

 

Yes. It is critical remember a static discharge from your body (just from squirming in your clothes) can have more than enough potential to totally destroy ESD sensitive devices (high-density ICs like processors and memory modules), yet be well below the threshold of human awareness. That is, the potential of the static "spark" (voltage "arc ") can be so tiny, we as humans cannot hear, see or feel the discharge, yet be large enough to cut a Grand Canyon size (microscopically speaking) gorge through the sensitive device.

What does the manual say?

In terms of slowest to fastest, the amount of RAM is much more significant than the speed.

 

That simplifies the process. I had read that both were compatible, but further research told me ECC only works on Xeon CPUs, so we're limited to the dual rank CT4K8G4DFD8213 @ 2133 or the BLS4K8G4D240FSA @ 2400.
Dual-sided non-ECC unbuffered 2133 4X8GB for $391.94
Single-sided non-ECC unbuffered 2400 4X8GB for $485.00

If he won't notice the difference between the 2133 and the 2400, we'll just go with the cheaper one, as they are both 32GB.

 

OK, here is what we came up with:

CPU: Intel Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate 99.0 CFM closed-loop liquid CPU cooler
TIM: Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra
3 extra fans: Aerocool DS 120 North America edition
Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme3 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
Memory: Crucial CT4K8G4DFD8213 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory
Storage 1: Crucial CT256M550SSD1 M550 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage 2: Seagate ST1000DM003 Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal HDD
Video Card 1 & 2: EVGA GeForce GTX970 Superclocked 4GB GDDR5 256BIT DUAL-LINK DVI-I DVI-D SLI Ready Graphics Card (04G-P4-1972-KR)
Power Supply: Antec HCG M 850W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)
Wi-Fi: TP-Link TL-WN822N
Monitor: ASUS VG248QE 24-inch LED-lit Monitor
Case: Thermaltake Versa H34
Battery Backup: APC Back-Ups 550

 

Here are more pictures:

 

More pictures:

 

My son has his computer up and running, though he hasn't overclocked it yet. He is very pleased at the speed and how cool it runs, so far. Eventually, he'll get a Bluetooth reader/writer, but he's not in a rush for that.

Let me talk about the case, as it is new on the market. Overall, I like the way it is put together, though be aware that the metal is coated, so you can't ground yourself on the case. The component system is nice, as it allowed us to remove the unused HDD bays for better airflow. This and the Versa H35 are the only cases on the market under $100 that can handle a 360mm cooler. We couldn't see paying the extra money for the H35, as the only differences are cosmetic. The front panel is very hard to remove, but, once off, I found coating the pins with silicone grease a simple solution, and now it works fine. The front foam dust filter isn't removable for cleaning, unfortunately. Thermaltake recommends just using compressed air from the back of the panel. The top filter is held on by magnets, and the bottom filter slides in, so they can easily be removed for cleaning. We'll compare stress temps with the top filter on and off. An opening can be cut around the top radiator, if airflow and temps are better without the filter. The back panel is extended outward, to give more room for cable management behind the mobo. Though there are 4 places to connect SSDs on the back, we found our connectors didn't fit on the left side, only the right. Shorter connectors would work for the left side. We have 4 intake and 4 exhaust fans. Three exhaust fans are on top, through the radiator, while one is at the upper rear. There are two intake fans in the front and two underneath. We used the Thermaltake fans that came with the case as the two intakes on the bottom, and used the 3 Aerocool DS 120 North America edition fans on the front and rear.

 

Is the metal coated on the inside of the case? That is what I always touch to discharge myself.

 

It is coated all over. Only the threaded holes provide a ground.

 

This is a nice "gaming" rig.

Again - he's voided the CPU warranty by using an after market cooler. If he doesn't care about, then I don't - as long as he doesn't seek warranty support without telling Intel he used an alternative cooling solution (as that would be fraud!).

I am puzzled with the selection of such a puny 550VA (~330W) UPS??? That makes no sense whatsoever! Especially with those two monster gaming graphics cards where EVGA recommends a minimum of 500W PSU with just 1 card!!!

I am a strong proponent for using a "good" UPS with AVR on every computer, but it has to be properly sized. And that one sure isn't - and I am confused why an aerospace engineer would not pick up on that.

I would suggest getting bare minimum a 900VA (~540W) UPS, but more realistically, at least a 1300VA (~780W) if he wants to protect his monitor too and have more than a couple minutes of backup power in the event of a power outage. In fact, if me, I would look at 1500VA. And I hope it is understood that backup power during a full power outage is only a minor benefit for having a "good" UPS with AVR.

 

His CPU didn't come with a cooler, so there isn't any significant warranty to void. This computer runs cool, quiet and very fast.

As this computer cost a bit more than he intended, he went for the 550. He can always upgrade later. He just wants the opportunity to save whatever he might be working on before the computer shuts off; he doesn't plan to run the computer on the battery.

 

Then he got an OEM CPU and you are correct, no warranty concerns - except OEM CPUs are warrantied for just 1 year vs 3.

I probably still would not trust that UPS to hold power for the computer in the event of an outage, or a sustained sag - even if only the computer is connected to the battery side of the UPS. Note that many outages last mere tenths of second - plenty of time to cause the computer PSU to shut down without us humans even being aware anything happened.

What he needs to do is task his computer with a demanding load, then pull the UPS plug from the wall and see (1) if it holds at all, and (2) if it does hold, for how long. And for sure, it is important to note that monitor consumes up to 45W (~50VA) too. If he wants to see what he is doing when the power goes out, the UPS needs to support it too. And if network connectivity is important, it must support his network gear as well.