Defection back to IE, anyone?

James, being alone among the readers of the Netscape and Mozilla section isn't that much of a surprise. I didn't expect that many who post here. A wake up call it surely isn't. There are many users of Firefox who have gone back to IE. If you didn't realize this, try posting in other computer sites and you'll see--just don't go to the Mozilla/Netscape sections! As far as features are concerned, when the tabbed browsing and password manager become less buggy, all the features I like will be in IE. The only real question mark is security. It has been eons since I've run IE as my primary browser. We'll see if SP2, MS Antispyware, and Spyware Blaster will keep my comp clean of spyware.

 

I've IE & FF on both machines, i too usually use IE6 for the above reasons already stated: browser acceptance, links open correctly, don't need to add a lot of plug-ins (they're already there in IE, a good/bad t'ing maybe but no prob here .

I've not experienced lockups or security probs caused by either, aside from the occasional Hijack attempt stopped by SpywareBlaster; like most of us here i'm loaded with FW & good AV, Adaware Pro Adwatch, Spybot, etc. But, FF is usually faster downloads for me, the effective tabbed browsing is nice, but not req'd here.

I'll stay mostly IE, am looking forward to final IE7.

Open source is excellent, stimulates the entrenched bigshots, but i don't mind a bit paying for value rec'd from the MS megalith Finally bought Office Pro 2003 for instance, a great set of apps, worth it to me.

 

But if that is true, why bother to ask such a question (Defection to IE, anyone?)? Since in your mind there are many who are returning to IE, why bother to come into the Netscape and Mozilla group to ask it? Or are you seeking to either confirm it (since you're not truly convinced) OR to persuade others to join you? Really... if what you say is true, then this entire thread makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Furthermore, I have no idea what you are talking about when you make the claim that tabbed browsing and the password manager are buggy. Please, provide substantive proof of this claim because it certainly has not been my experience. As for the other comment that a ton of plugins need to be added to make Firefox as useful as IE, I simply say balderdash. What plugins are you adding and why? Which pages are not opening correctly because Firefox is so limited and barebones? If you make such claims then I think you should be willing to support them.

As for the new and improved IE 7 being the panacea for all the security woes currently afflicting IE, I seriously think you'd better rethink that position. Do you honestly believe they've rewritten the millions of lines of code in IE's engine? No way, Jose. They're adding some bells and whistles... things that have long existed in Firefox and the Mozilla suite in order to bring this dinosaur into the 21st century. I also use MS's anti-spyware and Spyware Blaster and Ad-aware. And STILL there are examples of spyware that are able to sneak through as it were.

Geeze. They've hacked into NASA for crying out loud. An unauthorized person infiltrated cardholder data at CardSystems Solutions Inc., which processes transactions for MasterCard and now they're claiming about 40 million credit card holders (and some 14 million Mastercard holders) are at risk. If these huge concerns are unable to prevent hacking, what do you think your chances are with a couple of freebie progs protecting you and a sieve like IE to browse the net?

Like I said before, if that's your plan then good luck to you. You're going to need it. As for me, I'll stick with Firefox since it's far more secure than IE could ever hope to be.

 

Do yourself a favor and drop the psycho-analysis. You'll sound much more intelligent. I'm simply trying to find out other people's reactions to Firefox, and see if others felt the same way. If you feel that this thread makes no sense, then feel free to post in others that are more to your liking.

You certainly have no idea of what I am talking about. You really don't have any idea of what you are talking about either. I wrote that the tabbed browsing feature of the MSN toolbar was rather buggy, but that it would probably get fixed at some point in the near future. Read at least the first post in this thread, for crying out loud.

You can say balderdash all you want. I enjoy reading pdf files and viewing video clips while surfing. In my experience, Firefox doesn't handle these as well as IE does. In particular, it freeses when I use adobe. And its not just me. Read --you really ought to try this before posting. It was causing so many problems that they made a sticky for this in the mozillazine thread.

You are convinced that these hackers wouldn't have done this if these companies used Firefox? That very well might be true. Do you have any evidence to support this?

 

Yeah I've thought about slimbrowser or maxthon. Both of them (last time i checked) used the roboform password manager, which limits the number of entries. I don't believe the new MSN Toolbar's password manager does this. As far as I'm concerned, the 2 big draws of the IE shells are tabbed browsing and password management, which MS is slowly working on. We'll see how long it takes them to get these features to work as seamlessly as FF has it.

 

You know... you're beginning to get on my nerves. But I'll let it pass. When you begin to ascribe intelligence of lack thereof to another, you'd better be certain that your own analysis is correct (and I can assure you... it's not).

You say that you are defecting to IE. Fine. Here's something from a poster on another forum. I'm including it for the simple reason that he DOES know a good deal about software and hardware and I respect his take on things.

Quote: At my workplace we receive several computers a week, brought in for repair, most of which are riddled with spyware. Some are so badly affected, in that spyware has attracted several viruses, they need to be reprogrammed. Complete reformat and reinstall the OS.

While Gecko based browsers such as Firefox and Netscape (when it's using the Gecko engine not IE/Trident) are not so easily susceptible to malicious things like spyware, continued use of IE and/or Outlook Express increases the risk of infection.

At the end the day, make sure your system is protected by anti-spyware programs as well as anti-virus programs, keep your use of IE and Outlook Express to a minimum or, if you don't know how to restore your system from malware damage, you may lose your data, and you'll end up having to spend money getting your PC fixed. End of Quote (credited to DJGM)

Now you really have NOT adequately explained why you are so curious as to who is going to join you in your defection. So, why not try a little self psycho-analysis and see if you can't come up with your real intentions. You ascribe it to curiosity. But that does not really explain anything. So far no one appears to be ready to join so has your curiosity been satisfied? And if not why not and if so what does that tell you?

And don't get so bent out of shape and begin to make personal remarks when someone questions your motives. I never once made a personal remark so it is highly inappropriate for you to have done so. I simply asked you WHY you believed this thread necessary. I also stated my reasons for thinking a defection to IE was unwise and even at that I wished you well. Try to control your emotions.

 

I see I'm making some progress with you. Don't get to uptight--I'm just trying to get you to read and understand other folks' posts before you comment on your own.

James, I'm getting the impression you are simply making statements like this to start a flame war. The fact that you didn't respond to any of the specific points about browsers, that I made in my last post strengthens this impression. At any rate, kindly point out any statement I have made that is incorrect. If you are so certain my analysis is incorrect, please use quotes--this makes it more likely that you know what you are talking about when you are making statements about what I've said.

 

Not interested, Paul. I don't have to comply with anything you dictate. You're a relative newcomer here not me. I happen to love Firefox, Mozilla, Netscape and Thunderbird and I resent someone starting a thread about DEFECTING to internet explorer. If you want to defect.. then defect and be done with it. I could care less. Now... if THAT sinks in, great. This is my last post on the issue. I have a very strong feeling you simply started this thread out of frustration... sort of like the person who tells everyone he's going to commit suicide. He's not. He just wants attention. The person who intends to do it generally goes ahead and does it. Do you follow my drift? Just DO IT and be done with it. No one really cares one way or the other. No one intends to DEFECT to IE, Paul. And I very much doubt you do too.

 

I see that quoting me and then showing how what I said was wrong, isn't that easy.

Entirely irrelevent to this discussion.

I see. I think its rather clear that you resent this thread. At this point all I can do is suggest that you control your emotions.

OK James so that was your last post. Well we'll see if this thread dies out, or if I get any more feedback from anybody else here.

 

I hope we can get back to the original topic, especially in view of the fact that Arie referred to this thread in this week's HelpWithWindows Newsletter.

Somehow, threads such as this one tend to deteriorate, but I have trust in our members to not let personality conflicts take over, or to allow it to turn into a Microsoft vs. Gecko flame. Let's just keep on truckin' in our usual cool manner...

Ramona

 

Gotcha. From here on out I'll be on my best behavior.

 

Paul,

When reading over the thread I totally overlooked a question you asked:

Those applications are certainly strong deterrents to spyware/malware, unless a trojan is invaded by a virus.

I think the threat has actually escalated, Paul. I like to read the security sites, and especially the statistics. The Secunia site has some rather interesting pie charts that actually cover 2003-2005, based on security vulnerabilities, those already fixed, partial patches, etc. I wish you would take a look at these charts which really speak for themselves. I believe these charts will lay it out for you. I have attached two, below.

I think that the browser you prefer has so much to do with the browser you used on your first PC, or the first PC you used at work. What you became familiar with seems the best, and the unknown is usually less appealing. That may be over simplification, but also human nature.

Ramona

 

Hmm the charts say FF has 28% unpatched, versus 31% for IE. Of course, the absolute numbers are higher for IE, but that goes with the territory of being the dominant browser.

The secunia stats I saw a month ago argue your case even more so. It had to do with teh percentage of threats that were critical or highly critical. For FF, it was like none were highly critical, and only 14% or so were critical; for IE, it was 28% or so highly critical. I'm recalling from memory b/c I wasn't pushed for the info on a FF thread I was posting in, and did the research but didn't save the doc b/c nobody asked me for the info. I'll get it later on.

OK. Given all this, can you help me digest their significance? When they talk about these vulnerabilities, they are talking about things that tweaking javascript and ActiveX settings won't fix? I suppose the answer very well might depend on teh particular vulnerability.

 

I suppose so, but on the other hand, ya gotta keep in mind that this first love (IE) betrayed me I realized that even though my BSODs on my Win98 box had been cut in half by no longer using OE, I was still freezing up and getting spyware, until I switched to Mozilla (0.8--the suite was back then). So I really do have plenty of warm tummy feelings towards Mozilla. I've used it as my primary browser, ever since then, a year or so after that. So I really am familiar with FF (at least I know how to do what I want to do on it). Its just that the sorts of things that I see happening are things that I don't think should be happening on something that is 1.0.

Anyways, your statement is a generalization, and as such, is generally true. I'm not sure its germaine to my considering going back to IE if I get the functionality that I get here in FF, tho.


The "Not to Change the Topic Dept. "--thanks for helping provide some upward momentum to this thread, Ramona. I read that Arie has linked to this thread in a newsletter. Do you think its too early for me to get an agent?

 

Paul,

Is this a test?

Well yes, it would depend on the specific vulnerability, but let's take the last critical IE vulnerability as a case in point. (I may really get in trouble here as I know next to zip about IE.) It is non critical vulnerability and the workaround is to disable Active Scripting support for all but trusted sites. Just as you suggested.

However, the critical vulnerabilities would be a different story. I don't know if you recall, but last July the Department of Homeland Security's U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team recommended for security reasons using browsers other than Microsoft's Internet Explorer. Rule of thumb on a highly critical vulnerability in IE calls for waiting for the patch/update from the engineers at Microsoft.

As you know, Gecko browsers are not patched, but rather a full Release is issued with the fix for the security vulnerability. These new releases usually come within a few days, and Mozilla has been distinguished as being the vendor most expedient in fixing a vulnerability.

I hope this helps...

Ramona

 

Now that was funny.

Yeah I remember the gov't advisory. As well as all teh spyware I used to get.

Who knows, maybe Deer Park will be a bit more stable.

OK--so what are called critical vulnerabilities are as a rule, generally not able to be worked around by tweaking Active X/javascript settings. OK. I can accept that.

BTW--I went to secunia--by way of clarification what I told you before:
from (apparently) all the advisories from 2003-05, by level of criticality:

Internet Explorer Firefox

Extremely: 14% 0%


Highly: 28% 17%


Thanks to secunia, I've learned a new word: criticality.

 

Something you should look into right away. Be sure to mention the discounts at restaurants!


O.K., here's a Highly Critical Security vulnerability:
http://secunia.com/advisories/12959/

A vulnerability has been reported in Internet Explorer, which can be exploited by malicious people to compromise a user's system.

The vulnerability is caused due to a boundary error within the handling of certain attributes in the <IFRAME> and <FRAME> HTML tags. This can be exploited to cause a buffer overflow via a malicious HTML document containing overly long strings in e.g. the "SRC" and "NAME" attributes of the <IFRAME> tag.

Successful exploitation allows execution of arbitrary code.
--

Now this "criticality" is something to worry about, and hopefully you have a backup browser to use until the patch is issued.

Ramona

 

"until the patch is issued "--unless I've misread the MS site info, they released the patch last December, and the vulnerability didn't affect SP2 (which I didn't have till this March, btw). But this is to belabor the point.

I hear ya loud and clear: there are plenty of unpatched vulnerabilities in IE and I can't expect Spyware Blaster and MS Antispyware to take care of them.

 

Good boy!

Yes, using the old Security Advisory merely for an example.

G'nite Paul