Athalon 64, X2 or not

Monarch is fine. I haven't done a lot of business with them but the business I have done with them went without a hitch - used them at least a half dozen times and have purchased processors from them. I still prefer NewEgg but $60 is a pretty big enticement.

Re: OEM AMD - you're going to get 30 days unless you purchase some kind of an extended warranty. Full Retail box gives you three years from AMD itself.

 

HP a1477c 64x2 4400+ not bad.

I've followed this thread for a while and felt I should give my 2 cents for what its worth. I've ******* with computers since my first Bluechip XT (4mhz) with a amber screen, that was 1986 I think. Anyhow I usually build my own systems. I picked up the HP with the 64x2 4400+ chip from Costco. Mostly to check the AMD out because Costco gives you up to 6 mths minimum to return if its not what you want. I already had a monitor so I havn't pulled the 19" Flat monotor out of the box. Its nothing to write home about and no DVI input. I disconnected the 250G 7200rpm SATA drive and stuck in a SATA drive I had laying around so I could check it out with my copy of XP Pro. Thats when customer support showed its true colors as I needed drivers for the wireless LAN etc. Of course I got someone in India that fed me the canned **** that changing the OS would get me off the warranty and drivers we're not available. I could go on but on my own found all the drivers AND programs in the Recovery partition part of the hard drive that came with the system. If you don't want to figure it out let me know and I'll put you on the fast track to it. After getting XP Pro up everythings great. I read something here that the Amythist board is subpar, not true. The ATI chipset is one of the better ones as is the board. Kind of suprised me but do your own search and you'll see. Even the on board ATI Express 200 gaphics posted fairly high scores on some gaming sights that reveiwed the board. I run a very graphics intensive RC Plane/Helicopter Simulator (Great Plains G3) so the ATI wasn't enough. I first put a PCI E GeForce 7300GS (256) in it, on sale for $69 and it was great! But then I saw a 7600GS(256) for $99 and took back the 7300. Even though the 7600 wants a 400 watt PS in the system the 300 watt HP hasnt missed a beat. Even running the high end stuff its fantastic. Of course you can spend more but then your the kind of gamer that needes a ASUS SLI board and 2 cards! I also threw in another 1G of memory for a total of 2G. To sum it up I spent $1200 at Costco for the system with a 19" Flat Sreen Monitor, $99 for a pretty quick video card and $80 for extra memory. Total was $1379 and I can still return it if in 6 mths prices drop or a better system comes along. Plus this system has the AMD cool & quite feature, I sometimes don't know its on its so quite. Plus if you download their (AMD) DashBoard it will show you how it throttles the system to 50% when you don't need the speed but comes up instantly when you do. HP ***** with the India support but so does Norton and most of the others. The HP 1 year warranty is top notch as I have used it with my printers and Notebook. I used a Master Card from Washington Mutual to make the purchase and it doubles any warranty 1 year or less. Anyhow this was a long post but after watching you guys for a while I thought a little info wouldnt hurt the purchase process. For those who feel like flaming me, don't bother it dosnt matter to me and usually those guys are 14 and can only mouth off on the keyboard. See ya later W The F over, thats radio talk.
Recap: Add up the cost of building a system, plus the fact you'll have little if no warranty. If Chips and boards come down in price I'll build my own. At Fry's a 64x2 4400+ chip and ASUS SLI board with cooler was $600. After I added everything up, Basic no frills I had $1000 on the calculator after I deducted the various rebates to get that $20 box with PS, $89 250G SATA HD, $99 Video, $160 GOOD memory etc. And then it was yours to keep wether you liked it or not. All those ********* that magically appear are kinda cool!

 

Addendum to HP 64x2 4400+ Post

I forgot. The monitor is HP's VS19e with VGA input, 8ms response and 700:1 contrast. Really not to bad even though I prever DVI, I don't notice much difference on my Envision 19" that has both as does my video card. Also if you don't mind the 64x2 4200+ that has 2 x 512 cache instead of the 2 x 1meg of the 64x2 4400+ you can get a HP with a 19" DVI input flatscreen for $1050 after rebate at Fry's. You may have to wait till it comes on sale again. Identical system except has dedicated ATI video with 256 memory and that bogus media hard drive slot. Other than that same board etc. You see options are out there, just depends what you want. Without the monitor I've sen the HP 64x2 4200+ for $700-$800.
Later

 

That's a great review RDTS.

How do I flame HP without flaming you or your findings?

I had a reminder today. I'm working on a Compaq notebook (which, at less than 2 years old, has just had the motherboard replaced [AU$500]). The owner asked if I could install a graphics program. The minimum requirements for the program is 512Mb of RAM. I explained that he only has 384Mb of RAM. "There was a sticker on the notebook and the salesman said it has 512Mb ". I had to explain that 128Mb of that RAM was used for the graphics memory...maybe he didn't read or hear the fine print.

RDTS, you have upgraded a lot of hardware on the HP as soon as you got it. Was it "unbalanced" to begin with? A 4.2Gb dual processor CPU coupled with, say, a 300 Watt PSU...scary [personal comment...be careful it does not burn out and take the motherboard with it].

I have nothing but praise for the HP printer support I have come across. It seems to be a different part of the company to the computer side though, at least on their basic objectives. Put it this way, mums(moms) and dads out there that want a computer have little idea what the specifications mean.

A question. Can you find where a 300 Watt PSU is mentioned in the specifications?

Matt

 

HP a1477c 64x2 4400+

Thanks for the comments Mattman. Don't worry about the flaming HP. The printer support I got was out of Canada. At least I could understand them and they were for real technical guys, not canned support out of India. Actually the 64x2 4400+ runs a 2.2Ghz. I checked the power supply the old fashioned way, opened the box and looked at it. As far as a balanced system it was fine out of the box I just couldnt resist changing things. The reviews for the Amethyst board and chipset are actually pretty good so I didnt worry about that. I added the additional drive so if I took back the HP I could be up and running quickly on another system. The gig of xtra memory was laying around so I stuck it in. The strange thing is the Pass Mark test indicated my system got a little slower afterward. The video card was strickly because of the R/C Sym being so graphic intensive. I've actually run it on my HP notebook with integrated ATI 200 graphics, just had to eliminate clouds etc. I had the oppurtunity to hook up the HP VS19e 19" flat screen the other day (came with package) and its actually a better view than my digital 19" Envision EN9250 even though the HP in VGA input. I am checking to see if the 300 watt power supply can handle it till a sale on a 400 comes up. If I build a system instead I'll use it in it. Here's something real scary! I'm presently running 2 SATA HD's, 1 IDE HD, the 2 DVD drives that came on the system and the 7600GS Video card with no problems! So if you just had the HP a1477c system that included the monitor with no upgrades it really isnt that bad. And if you wanted to eliminate the bloatware and use your own OS the drivers and Apps are there you just need to know were to look. If I still added up building my own 64x2 4400+ it would be the same if not more money and no warranty to speak of so for now I'll thrash the HP.
By the way we were at Disneyland years ago and met a guy from Australia who just decided to fly over, nice guy. My neice still coresponds with him even though its been 5 years or better. Funny, there was a guy from New Zealand there also and we were all having a beer. You guys have a little competion thing going with NZ.
Have a good one.

 

I don't really know how on-topic this is but seeing the post above about the MSI mainboard problems, I got a bit inspired. After doing this for about ten years I've come to the conclusion that it's a bit pointless to pick amongst mainboard vendors purely based on QC. It seem that no matter how upscale a brand you buy or how much you pay, you can end up with a lemon just as easily if you had spent half that much.

Just a little while ago, I posted in an Asus forum for a recommendation on an A8N32-SLI Deluxe. When I finish the post, I see this thread topic right below mine:

A8N32-SLI Deluxe POS or what?

And then the first reply I get my thread is that the board I'm interested in is, to summarize, either a flaming turd or the spawn of satan. And a quick scan of the forum seems to point that a significant number of people are having troubles with this board.

If I'm not interesteding in board bling, is there really any evidence that I'm better off buying from Asus or to be fairer, simply a more expensive board? Not that I can see. My friend will only buy Asus simply so he can have bragging rights. But he constantly has problems with his boards. It's so bad I send him hilarious e-mails that mock his problems - he actually gets quite a laugh from them. I always go middle of the road and rarely have any problems of any sort. My current Socket 939 board cost me $72 US.

I think Asus is a great mainboard company but I will most likely meet my maker without ever having bought one. And I've never heard good things about MSI QC though I have heard that their customer service is absolutely top-notch.

Paying more for features is one thing but I don't think you end up with a "better" board per se.

Gary

 

Hey all, I have been absent while experiencing a financial fleecing from family med bills. Now that that crisis is over, back to this crisis.

To start off, thanks again to all for their input and assistance. For the sake of expedience, my current status is that I am buying parts. I already have the video board, memory, monitor, tv/capture board.

I still have to buy-

Mainboard- Still leaning towards the ASUS AN8 SLI (I need 1394)
CPU- Opeteron 165 (o.c to 2.2)
OS- XP Pro
HDD's- Two WD250Gb/16mb SATA2
CD-DVD-RW's- Whatever
Case- Lian Li 7PC

Are we still comfy or has the hardware world shifted on me again??

Thanks, Lar

 

Geeeeezzzzzzz Lar ........
I thought you bagged the computer, went to Amsterdam and got lost in a cloud of smoke. Glad to see you back.

I've been out of pocket for almost 3 weeks myself and just got back into the flow but all still looks pretty good from my perspective. Some price drops in the lesser AMD processors thanks to Intel's soon to be but the "high end AMD's haven't moved at all and I'd call you "high end ". If you want to go back to Amsterdam for a few more weeks, you might get lucky but I'd say that the landscape looks pretty much the same.

Welcome back stranger.....

 

Just wait till the July end, when the prices of top AMD CPUs drop by as much as 30%. I am drooling already...

 

Hey guys, a vacation it has not been. But Amsterdam is looking pretty good right now!!

If AMD prices will be dropping in late July, is there another CPU that I should now consider (vs. the Opteron 165)? Should I move to socket 940 (oops, I meant AM2. Thanks Chiles4)?

Lar

 

Do you mean AM2?

 

Right. AM2. Thanks

 

I have decided to look into getting a sound card with 1394 so that my mainboard options are less limited. I am looking at the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum because it comes with a cool 5.25 header and has a good rep.

Concur?? Options?

As far as mainboards go, that will take some time.. I agree with those that do not like to pay for features that will not be used. However.....after having delved into non-SLI boards, most are only SATA-I. The only one that stands out seems to be the Abit KN8 Ultra. Newegg- Abit KN8 Ultra. The only concern is the mediocre review ratios- 63% Exc, 20% Good. If I include SLI, the obvious choice is the ASUS A8N-SLI Dlx with 72% Exc, 12% Good, 1394 and 3 PCI slots. Newegg- Asus A8N-SLI Dlx

I guess now I have more choices for a sound card as the ASUS has 1394. Uh-oh, I am getting dizzy again.

Hey RSINFO and ROCK, the coming AMD price drops.... will that bleed into other Socket 939 related devices like the mobo's? Will this make the Opteron 165 vs 4400+ question a little more interesting??

Thanks!! Lar

 

All your reasoning seems fine to me, although I would concentrate on "first things first ".

Sound card, you will still have to make a decision on a motherboard first. For me, the sound itself is more important than what makes it (example, speakers would be more important than a remote control or flashing LEDs). If the mobo has built-in audio you can use that until you decide on the best alternative.

CPU, the criteria Rockster identified were speed, L2 cache and price. If the prices are going to change at the end of July, you will need to review those criteria then. AM2, I have not read closely, but I think their major difference is running with DDR2 RAM, but there is no major advantage over DDR at the moment apart from future-proofing.

Make a firm decision on the motherboard, then choose the best accompanying features. That may mean deciding on the CPU type first. If you want to wait for the next technological advance you will never build the computer.

"Dizzy "? You are making very logical decisions. Put them into a step-wise "tree ".

You don't choose the wheels before you buy a new car (at least I don't ).

Matt

 

Larry

Don't hold your breath. Although I have no idea how AMD is going to set future pricing, I don't expect their "high end" CPU's are going to be heading south any time soon. Intel's Core2 is supposed to be quite an offering and should put some pricing pressure on AMD but Intel's mainstream offerings aren't anything to write home about. As to the newer AM2 socket, I haven't seen anything yet that would change my original suggestions to you. I'm going forward on a 165 build for someone next week and looked over the alternatives again pretty closely.

You may want to wait another couple of weeks to see if anything different unfolds, but don't expect anything dramatic re: that particular CPU's price.

As to your audio - if total system price is no longer a concern, then I guess the choice comes down to whatever blows your skirt up.

 

Well, I would like to report that all parts have been purchased and should be in hand within a week or so. I'll post next when they are all in and I am ready to ride.

I would also like to mention that the "rebate" process has gone perfectly with all rebates confirmed or in hand. We had discussed earlier in the thread the pros and cons of rebates.

Thanks, Lar

ASUS AN8-SLI Dlx
Opteron 165
Windows XP Pro
MSI 7600Gt Video
2- 250Gb WD 16mb SATA2
2- Lite-On 16x DVD-RW
Antec 500W Smartpower
Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 Video Capture/TV
Lian Li PC-7b case
Zalman CPU fan Al-Cu blue

 

Was starting to wonder whether or not you had taken up knitting or crochet - great to hear from you and even better to learn that puppy is about ready to start barking. You are a most patient individual and I trust the wait will prove to be worth it. After leaving my new personal build in boxes for the better part of the last three months, I finally got around to it this past weekend - you are going to like that motherboard.

Here's a little teaser for you. Just moved it into my office tonight.




View attachment 1718

 

Hey Rockster, there's some empty space towards the top right hand corner. Surely you could find something to fit in there!

 

Wow, can I assume that that is some kind of dual video (SLI) set up? Looks like a Rockster wind tunnel.

Assuming I have everything in a couple of days....

Is there a website that gives clear, basic baby steps in mainboard setup, Bios setup-updating, HDD, DVD-rw, OS install, etc that will get me going? I have done all of these before (exc mobo) but not as a new build-out. I am still a 98SE user so the XP admin/user interface is of concern. I was hoping to not burden the BBS with overly basic stuff, just on-going minutia and confusion!

 

Hi Lar,

I might have mentioned it previously (I not going back to check ), read lightly through the motherboard manual first, identify the different parts and where all the hardware is attached. Asus have one of the best motherboard manuals and there should be step by step instructions. You don't need to cover the BIOS settings in detail, probably just knowing if there are "setup defaults" and "optimised defaults" (get Windows and the major drivers installed and upgrade to SP2 if necessary before going to "optimised "). There will probably even be instructions for installing the OS using the SATA Controller drivers.

The CPU will have a step by step set of instructions, cross reference this with the motherboard instructions.

RAM is clip-in, just make certain it is clipped in evenly all the way on both sides. There will be instructions in the mobo manual.

Drive setup might be the be the trickiest part, not physical locating them (find a place that does not stretch the cables and has good air flow), but the installation of the OS. Check at the WD website for setup instructions if there is not information or setup disks included with the drive/s. There should be some instructions with their utility software (Lifeguard?, but I have not used Lifeguard for a long time).

If you had an ordinary motherboard, you may not find detailed instructions in the manual. I think you will find highly detailed instructions in the Asus manual, even to the point of at what point to apply power to the system, so I would concentrate on using the manufacturer's instructions which should be highly detailed for the quality parts you are using.

If you have trouble, go to the manufacturer's website and look up your model number. There should be full instructions there, FAQs, etc,etc. Follow the instructions in the m/b manual step by step.

If something does not want to go the way it is supposed to, have a break and return to it later, usually you find the solution a lot easier that way. Don't force anything, it should all just clip in easily (like when you place the motherboard in the case, you need to find the right angle for it to sit flush with the edge of the case). Having patients and taking your time will be the main factor (it should be a walk in the park compared to Ikea ).

Post back here of course if you get stuck. You know we will do our best to help you find the solution, but I think you will find it is all relatively easy.

Matt
Edit: Here's something, check the stickies at the start of this forum if you have trouble:
http://www.motherboards.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=3