XP Fixes Myth #1: Registry Cleaners

An irregular series of XP Myths involving speedup, reliability and optomization issues. Next in the Series: RAM Optomizers.

Registry Cleaners -- Avoid them

Mark Russinovich (Author of the "Bible ", Windows Internals, co-founder of Winternals and Sysinternals, and since both companies were bought by Microsoft, now a senior Microsoft employee) was asked:

His reply fairly captures my own view:

To which you can the additional problem: applications installed on a machine that is used by more than one person can creates entries for each user in their private registry store: HKEY_CURRENT_USER. Because registry cleaners (and REGEDIT.EXE) operate under SYSTEM permissions with the logged-in user security token, they cannot access these other registry entries.

Quoting Mark Russinovich again:

So you have these issues with a registry cleaner:

• If an application is installed and used only by one user, a registry cleaner run by another user will remove "invalid" entries in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and disable the application from working by the other user(s);
• If an application is installed by User #1, and used as well by User#2, the registry cleaner operation run by User#1 cannot remove the instances of the application created by User#2.

On top of these technical issues that should scare you away, there is the central argument made by Mr. Russinovich: only if the registry cleaner has a sophisticated database of all application software installation registry changes would it have a chance of being safe to use. There is to my knowledge no such animal out there.

Though the Microsoft Knowledge Base has a lot of articles on how to repair the damage created by using these utilities.

Summary:

• Will using Registry Cleaners speed-up my system and make it more reliable?
  It will have no effect on system speed. There is an excellent chance it will make your system less reliable.
• So what should I do about the registry?
  The best thing you can do is to enable System Restore and add to your Autostart applications a registry backup. Strongly recommended for this is ERUNT (freeware):
  
  [ERUNT] Registry Backup and Restore for Windows
  http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/
  
  [ERUNT Download URLs]
  http://www.aumha.org/downloads/erunt.zip
  http://www.aumha.org/downloads/erunt-setup.exe
  
  [Installing & Using ERUNT]
  http://www.winxptutor.com/regback.htm
  http://www.silentrunners.org/sr_eruntuse.html
  http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/erunt.txt
  
• But I backup my registry reqularly using REGEDIT.EXE.
  You might as well not have bothered, the backups created by Regedit are of no use to you.
  
  Neither does it export the whole registry (for example, no information from the "SECURITY" hive is saved), nor can the exported file be used later to replace the current registry with the old one. Instead, if you re-import the file, it is merged with the current registry without deleting anything that
  has been added since the export, leaving you with an absolute mess of
  old and new entries.

References:
http://blogs.technet.com/markrussin.../02/registry-junk-a-windows-fact-of-life.aspx
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/XPMyths.html
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/erunt.txt

 

It would be foolish to argue with someone of Russinovitch's caliber and a downright dumb double dare to dispute the way this has been presented by Bill.

Enter the dumb fool ............

I've seen a lot of true garbage programs that claim to be good medicine for registry maintenance, however, given the choice of no registry cleaning application versus a good registry cleaning application, I'll stand on the wrong side of the fence regardless of my repect for the opinions of either Mr Russinovitch or Mr Castner.

Personally, I wouldn't be without something like jv16 PowerTools or RegSeeker. To clean up a system after uninstalling an unwanted application, I'd recommend either one to most users who have moved beyond rookie status and understand some basic fundamentals about Windows and its architecture. Ditto with periodic maintenance, registry searches and "fixing" certain types of problems. I'm pretty comfortable with both of these tools and quite frankly, would be lost in some situations without them.

To any who read this, my recommendation would be to follow the advice and guidance that Bill and Mark have offered - these guys have forgotten more than I'll ever learn, even if I had a houseful of tutors courtesy of Microsoft.

And, my own course of action - I'll stick with what works for me until I find a better way. You might think I'm a little hard-headed but that would be a hasty observation because I'm real hard-headed. I appreciate reading anything that provides guidance relative to understanding Windows and I'm not afraid to try almost anything, but I also know what has and hasn't worked for me regarding a host of different software and hardware issues on a lot of different machines. That translates to, "I respect your most knowledgeable opinion but I'll continue using RegSeeker and jv16 PowerTools. "

 

The question to ask you then: Why?

If it does no good, and could possibly do harm, a reasonable man would choose not to use them at all.

 

Well then .... I have the $30 Reg Mechanic which tells me it's 'fixed' a couple hundred 'mistakes'. Can't tell any difference in performance but I'm very gullible(sp?) about these matters. I decided a couple of weeks ago to follow the advice on this board as it's been very helpful. If I go into 'remove programs' and remove it, it's sounds as if I'll be better off in the long run? Don't be hesitant about answering, please, the $30 is no big deal.!!

Chas. awaiting a difinite YES or NO.....

 

Q... Take all commercial Registry Cleaners off your PC.?

Scoreboard:

YES .. 1 (Russinovitch)

NO .. 0

MAYBE .. 1 (conditional)

P.S. 'difinite' may be spelled 'definite'

 

This does not sound encouraging for Rose City Software, who offer Registry First Aid. Rose City Software and WindowsBBS.com are both divisions of Infinisource, Inc.

 

If you go to the Norton/Symantec site, they offer small utilities to clean up after an Add/Remove if the process was not thorough enough.

I would much rather have you do that that use jv16 (an excellent product). But for the moment I do want to distinguish between registry cleaning as some sort of regular ownership ritual using automated tools; and the search and removal of known and identifiable entries by an experienced computer user.

I can see the latter use, if no other option is available to you. I think it high-risk, but I can understand why it could be needed.

But what in particular I want to dispel as a "Myth" is that these automatic cleaners need to be run with any regularity. And I wanted to dispel as a "Myth" that they are safe to use.

Before ever using one, I hope folks have enough sense to:
. create a manual System Restore point;
. And have ERUNT or similar installed and the registry stores current.

 

"... I do want to distinguish between registry cleaning as some sort of regular ownership ritual using automated tools; and the search and removal of known and identifiable entries by an experienced computer user..."

That's me, the ritual bit. I'm probably among the great majority of this forums readers: the ones that don't know beans about the workings of the machine but are interested in the advice of the experts on the questions we do have.

So...... is that a Yes, No, MAYBE or SUIT YOURSELF

Chas.

 

My vote is an unambiguous no.

 

Well, that makes it almost too close to choose, so ...... I'll do what any reasonable, thinking person would do: If the Seahawks beat the Cowboys I'll take it off but if Romo will settle down with his throwing and T.O will quit dropping those passes and they win, I'll take it off.!!

Chas.

 

That means win or lose for the Cowboys, you take it off?

 

Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap,clap, clap! Yea Christer and Rock!

Russinovitch is very good. He mostly said Reg cleaning did not improve speed.

There is a definate need for registry cleaning and even if Bill Gates (especially if Bill Gates) advised against it. I would still do it.

I have had many many incidents like Charles relates.

But now this is a democracy so everyone just uninstall and delete the Registry cleaners.

Mike

 

Nah, I'm not gonna take it off even tho the Cowboys (Romo) blew it. After a careful reading of the previous posts your 'unabiguous no' was rather ambiguous following your 1st post: ie. "..His reply fairly captures my own view.. "

"..If it does no good, and could possibly do harm, a reasonable man would choose not to use them at all...." (or let the NFL choose?)

But I have to say that I still have no idea whether the PCtool is helping me or not but I do know it won't hurt me any or you would have given me an unambiguous 'YES'.

Chas.

 

I think I have my yeas and neys confused here.

Unambiguously I would remove any registry cleaner.

They cannot help. They can hurt.

 

I've used reg cleaners - jvPT - to clean up after bad uninstalls or other problems. This is a tool to be used appropriately like any other.

Saying that it is of no use in any circumstances is just as dogmatic as using them ritualistically.

Regards - Charles

 

Very well said as usual for you Charles!

Mike