Win98 boot disk can't find 2nd hard drive

I am currently running WinXP on my first hard drive which is partitioned into C: and D: (C: for WinXP, D: for applications), but want to also install win98 on my 2nd hard drive to allow for dual boot. Currently the 2nd drive is set up as my E: drive and is 7GB in size (have applications installed on it). I want to repartition it so that I can install win98 on it, BUT when I boot up with my Win98 boot disk it can't find the 2nd hard drive. I get C:, D: which are on my first h/d (the XP one), but no E: which is currently my entire 2nd drive. The drive is formatted as Fat32 so WHY can't DOS see it, when WinXP can? I want to run Partition Magic to repartition, but if DOS can't see the drive I won't be able to install win98 on it.

thx,

 

Why don't you just disconnect your XP Drive and see what happens. Obviously, reset your HDD jumpers or if on CS, make sure you are on the terminated 40 pin header. Once you have 98 loaded, reconnect the drive and let XP's boot loader straighten things out (hopefully). I have done this a little differently than you are attempting and installed 98se first, then XP Pro and its almost a no brainer.

 

But why should I have to disconnect the 1st hard drive. Win98/dos should be smart enough to detect both of them, always did before on my other PC. If WinXP can see and access both drives, why can't I see the E: (2nd) drive when I boot to win98/dos. Don't understand why?

 

You should not have to.

Could it be a possible cable position or jumper setting error ?

I have had problems with using cable Select settings.

I ( most of the time ) have had to use the Master & Slave jumper settings to make things work properly.

This also seems to be better when using cross platform OS.

Such as Win98 DOS vs XP.

BB

 

If you go FAT32 on the 98 (duh ... to me) and are NTFS on the XP, you aren't going to see the XP drive from 98. If you are FAT32 on both, that's a different story. If you were putting both on the same drive, to my knowledge, you have to install 98 first - just don't know if the same holds true when you have two separate drives.

Regardless, be stubborn - don't disconnect the XP drive and let me know what the work-around is when you find out.

 

If you're booting with CD-ROM support, the "virtual drive" the boot floppy creates is probably getting the E designation temporarily. Try looking for an F or G drive and see if that works.

 

Could it be a possible cable position or jumper setting error ?
]
I don't see how that could be a problem, winxp sees both drives fine. If it was a hardware setup problem I wouldn't see the 2nd drive anywhere (and would not see the drive come up as attached at boot time, but I DO see it there).

You may well be right. But I would not rule out a cable or jumper setting. As XP and 98SE may do things quite differently.

That is why as I mentioned before ( at least I believe I did ) I have to use JUMPER settings in order for 98SE and XP to not cause problems when I switch drives.

Also if any BIOS setting were changed when XP was installed, that could make a difference. That is another thing that I had to make sure I did not do in order for things to work properly when switching out HDs. One with 98SE and the other with XP Pro.

And when two drives are present JUMPERS MUST BE applied. ( at least that has been my exerience ) Both must be cable select and plugged into the proper cable position or else One Master and one Slave.

That does suggest ( firmly ) a cable or jumper or even BIOS problem. As there is no operating system ( XP or 98 anyway) involved at this time.

And Partiton Magic will see HDs sometimes when DOS does not also. But many time will see it as the WRONG size.

Also if you are indeed booting from the Windows 98 Startup disk.

IGNORE the message that says " Starting Win98 " That IS NOT true And actuall it is STUPID of it being there. And also VERY misleading. It is only starting DOS from Win98. There is neither Win98 or XP involved at this time.

BillyBob

 

Edit the config.sys file on the boot disk. Look at the contents for a line that says "LAST DRIVE = " and make sure it says Z or at least something a little higher than what you need like G or H. If that line doesn't exist try adding it.

 

KevinSaul

Very good point

BB

 

I looked in the config.sys and the lastdrive IS z.


I still don't see how it could be jumpers. If XP is working and sees both drives, I don't want to mess with jumpers to break what already works. Also, when I boot to Linux (also on the 1st h/d) I CAN see the second hard drive. If it was a master/slave problem I shouldn't be able to see the second drive from XP or Linux, right? But I do. And you mention 'switching' drives.. er.. I'm not switching them, they are both installed and connected. I just can't see both in DOS, again baffling.

I just recently upgraded my PC so it's a new motherboard and Bios, so whatever the settings were as default is what I have right now in the BIOS. I'll have to take a closer look at the bios, not that familiar with the new motherboard (not sure what settings I'm looking for exactly, though).

 

Man this is tough.

Am I not saying it right or are you not understanding.

The problem with DOS ( from a FLOPPY ) not seeing the 2nd HD has NOTHING TO DO with ANY version of WINDOWS. Windows is not involved.

What XP does has ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to do with booting up the machine from a DOS FLOPPY.

Windows XP WILL do a LOT of things that Win98 Will not do.

Question.

Am I correct in assumming that you booting from a power off state directly to the floppy ?

If that is so then it IS a Jumper, Cable or BIOS problem. NOTHING from the actuall HD is invloved.

OOPS !! Unless the HD has a Primary partition on it. Then the HD is invloved.

If you are for some reason going to the HD first then itt could be a problem resulting from that.

It is POSSIBLE that that is where the problem is. ( BIOS )

Also ( guessing here ) are you using the PROPER cable. Most newer drives require and 80 conductor cable instead of the old 40 conductor.

Are both HDs on the same cable ?

Does the drive in question happen to have a primary partition on it. If so that may stop DOS from seing it. I understand the XP will see the 2nd HD with Primary Partiton on it. But DOS and Win98 will not.

So lets leave Windows XP out of this mess until we can get DOS to read that 2nd HD CORRECTLY. Which is a MUST DO. Especially if you are thinking of putting Win98 on it.

Once DOS from floppy boot up reads it correctly then Windows ( any version ) will take care of itself CORRECTLY

BillyBob

 

Just so you know, I'm talking to 3 other people on this at the same time, so I hope I don't get off topic (or repeat myself too much)...

Ok let's start from scratch. First off, I never said the problem had anything to do with windows, I think we're misunderstanding each other along the way... I know DOS, I've been in computers for 20 years and have seen the evolution of various operating systems, and know that windows was just a PM on top of dos. Also, I know a tad about hardware, but don't know ALL the current cables and new hardware that has been coming out, BUT I have put PCs together from scratch. I was merely surprised that both XP and Linux could see the second drive but dos couldn't (never had that problem before). I had this working in a similar setup on my other PC with win2000 and win98, so I'm trying to find out what's different.
Based on what you said about a primary partition on the 2nd drive, I'm starting to wonder about that... since my last note I tried a few things but so that this doesn't get more confusing, let me state what the status is now based on your questions (if I miss anything, post again re: the missed Q's and I'll clarify):

***
1)
I thought I had specified that I BOOTED directly from floppy, but if not, to clarify: YES from floppy NOT hard drive.


2)
-1st hard drive: One primary partition with C:.
One extended partition with D: E: (some linux partitions too, but they don't come into effect because they are EXT2 formatted)

I used PQmagic6 to create the logical partition on the 2nd drive and this is what it created:
-2nd hard drive: One 7M primary partition (unformatted)
One extended partition with F: on it. PQM automatically created that first primary, no way around it that I can see? Can't delete it.


3)
Proper Cable:
I have to check to make sure, but as far as I know both cables are 80.


4)IDE port setup:
-First IDE: 1st hard drive as master, CD-writer as secondary
-Second IDE: 2nd hard drive as master


***
***

Again let me know if I missed something... and having said all that, here is a new caveot, that again I've never come across (we can attack this later):
-I used PQmagic to also create the E: partition on the first HD, then deleted all partitions on the 2nd drive, then created the extended/logical as I stated earlier. As a result I have the partition setup I stated above (1st: Primary:C, Extended,E; 2nd:Extended:F)

When I looked at this using "FDISK /STATUS" I saw the same i.e. both drives with the above partitions)
And as we know, DOS itself could not see the 2nd drive.


NOW, when I booted back to XP, lo and behold:
the 3rd partition E: on the 1st drive was coming up as G:?? And what should have been F: (only formatted partition on 2nd drive) was coming up as E: (but it's NOT a primary partition)??

Again, this is a second problem to deal with, but I don't get why THAT is happening.

---

I'm off to check the cable connection... and maybe buy a gun.. or a hefty sledgehammer...


l8r,
m.

 

FIXED!

Fixed it (finally):

1)
Well, I tried different hardware setups, but that wasn't the problem
(everything was fine there). I ended up deleting the partition on the 2nd drive and recreating it with FDISK, and reformatting. Now DOS finds the second drive and partition as F:. Oddly enough, when I look at the 2nd drive in PQmagic, it looks the same as before. For whatever reason,
deleting/recreating with Fdisk did the trick, but in essence it's the exact same setup as before (one logical drive as F: on 2nd HD). Seems that even though I deleted and recreated it with PQM before, DOS still wouldn't recognize it until I used Fdisk. NEVER had that problem before (PQM always did the job before and DOS saw everything ok). Go figure .

2)
FYI:
Found out how to reset the drive letters in XP (simple once you know the option):
***
How to Change a Drive Letter in XP:
To change an existing drive letter on a drive, partition, or volume:
-Log on as Administrator or as a member of the Administrators group.
-Click Start, click Control Panel, and then click Performance and Maintenance.
-Click Administrative Tools, double-click Computer Management, and then in the left pane, click Disk Management.
-Right-click the drive, partition, logical drive, or volume for which you want to assign a drive letter, and then click Change Drive Letter and Paths.
-Click Change.
-Click Assign the following drive letter (if it is not already selected), click the drive letter that you want to use, and then click OK.
-Click Yes when you are prompted to confirm the drive letter change.
***

=====

NOW, the main reason I started all THIS!!!

-Now that the 2nd drive is ready to go, I want to install win98 on it BUT have been told I might have problems installing it when Xp is already on C:. I don't want to have to reinstall XP after win98 again (would lose all my customization, wouldn't I)? I was told I need a 3rd
party bootmanager, BUT since I have Linux installed too and LINUX's bootmanager LILO is the first menu I get, will I still have a problem installing win98 now (i.e. will Xp get ******* up) and booting to the 3 OS's after? I'm still fuzzy on what a win98 install will do to the
existing WinXP? Is it the booting process that will be a problem (i.e. winXP's menu will not allow me to boot to win98 or vice versa?).

I guess the question now is, how can I install win98 on F: without ******** up WinXP and being able to boot to all 3 OS's?

Thx! (getting a little further every time...)

 

You were the one that dragged XP into the picture when you said XP did this that or the other thing and could not understand why it had anything to do with Cables, Jumpers or setup of the 2nd HD.

And I just said leave XP out of a DOS problem.

That is more than likely why DOS did not see it.

The following is written according my experience with the PM5 that I have.

NO. NO. NO. PM did not automaticly create the Primary parititon. And there is a way around it. The operator of PM did so by not setting the FULL drive to Extended.

And/or you did not delete all partitions before running PM. Then it might recreate the Primary.

PM only does what the USER tells it too. ( unless the newer versions are somehow different ). My PM5 only does what I tell it too. No more and no less. It will not create a Primary pariton unless I THE USER tell it too.

And by using PM you can delete it. Unless again the newer versions are different. ( which I hope they are not )

If PM has gone to any automatic **** then I for one WILL NOT buy it.

I have three machines with two or three HDs and nothing other than the 1st has a Primary partion on it. And they have all be set up with PM. Except this new 60gig where I used the software that came with the drive to COPY the old to the new leaving the old intact and still very usable.

And by XP changing letters still leads me to beileve the the 2nd HD is not set up correctly as a 2nd drive.

One of these days when I get my old HD cleaned off I will find out.

And no matter What OS is being used if the 2nd HD is added and has a Primary partiton on it Windows or even DOS will change the drive letters of the first HD after C: up by one letter.

And unless I read wrong XP has done it to you also.

I tried hooking up my Old 98 HD as a 2nd drive. ( certainly was for sure not one of my better ideas ) Of course it does have a Primary on it cause 98SE is still on it.

I will not get onto the NASTY details of what it did to XP. XP did not even want to boot properly as it could not find some of the stuff it needed which is on other than C:. But I saw what was happening ( from error messages ) before the boot got too far in and just shut the machine down.

AND PRAYED that it would boot properly again.

Just a last little Hint.

If you do now have the 2nd drive installed and seems to be working properly. It could well be in your best interests not to take it out. As it may cause XP to change drive letters AGAIN.

BillyBob

 

OOPS !! something that has happened to me.

If you used PM to delete partitons and DO NOT reboot the machine before making new ones IT MAY NOT hold.

BillyBob

 

hmm.. well as I stated it had nothing to do with jumpers or hardware, so I still hold to that. If it had been, Linux would not have seen the drives either, and it did. Anyway, no point beating a dead horse.

It also didn't seem to have anything to do with a primary partition either. And I DID use PM to delete ALL partitions on the 2nd drive and there was NOTHING there after. Then when I selected it to create ONLY a logical partition, it still created the 7MB primary (which I never formatted) along with the rest of the drive being the logical.. **BUT** as you mentioned, that if I didn't reboot it would not hold, might have been the reason then. Might have worked otherwise

In any event, I used FDISK to delete and recreate the partition for DOS to finally find it. And fixing XP drive lettering was simple enough once I found out how (as I mentioned earlier).

So now the inevitable decision is how to install win98 on F: and getting everything to work. I know that I can fix Linux boot again after by simply booting via Linux boot floppy and running LILO, which resets the linux boot. Just worried about getting winXP to be able to boot to both XP and 98.

I've GHOSTed my entire C: drive (7MB of data) so I should be able to restore XP should anything go drastically wrong. Just wish I knew what to expect if/when I install win98 on F:. Seems there would be an easier way to do this.

Off to destroy my system...

 

That may be fine. But as I mentioned in the other post.

IF you were to remove the 2nd you may well be back into changing drive letters.

I have a brand new 40gig HD that I will experiement with and see what it does with XP.

Let you know in a day or two.

BB

 

Here's a link to a page that tells how to install win98 after xp.

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_9x.htm

Good luck!

 

Zander

WOW !!

I would sure not like to see what would happen if ANYTHING goes wrong there.

Also am I thinking wrong or does that set up a DUAL BOOT which means 98 does not need to be on a Primary Drive.

I myself would much prefer a Multi OS boot with each on its own Primary drive.

The below is for info purposes only.

A reference was made earlier about Partition Magic Automaticly making a Primary Partition.

I just ran PM5 on an brand new 40gig WD drive and it DID NOT offer to do so. I selected FULL 38+gig as Logical ( extended ) and then divided it up into 5 partitions.

Create Logical drive ( non Primary ) was already selected. If I wanted a Primary I had to change it.

Am I missing something or are the newer versions different ?

I will find out in a day or two as I just pruchased and downloaded PM8. And I have two or three HDs that I wish to rearrange.

Cluck, Cluck, Cluck
I do not have the guts to plug it is as a slave to the XP drive. I do not need it any way so why look for trouble. I have better plans for it.

But I would have no problem plugging it in as a slave to the 98SE drive as I know what would happen there.

Before you mention it I will. It WILL not bother the CDROMS ( on either OS ) as they are S: & T:

BillyBob