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Why are my messages blocked by "blacklist.sequoia"??

Discussion in 'General Internet' started by Roger at CCCC, 2005/09/05.

  1. 2005/09/05
    Roger at CCCC

    Roger at CCCC Inactive Thread Starter

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    I've been sending emails to friends for literally years. Now I have started receiving the following error messages when I do so. Apparently, there is something somewhere called "blacklist.sequoia.ops.asp.att.net" that is blocking my email messages. Obviously, this is very irritating. Is there anything I can do about it? Is the only solution using a different email address to send my messages?

    The following error message is what I received except that I changed the email addresses of my friends to friend1, friend2, and friend3.

    Thanks for any help on this very irritating problem.
    ============================================
    The original message was received at Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:33:50 -0500
    from localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]

    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
    <friend1@mchsi.com>
    (reason: 550-69.66.0.11 blocked by blacklist.sequoia.ops.asp.att.net.)
    <friend2@mchsi.com>
    (reason: 550-69.66.0.11 blocked by blacklist.sequoia.ops.asp.att.net.)
    <friend3@mchsi.com>
    (reason: 550-69.66.0.11 blocked by blacklist.sequoia.ops.asp.att.net.)
     
  2. 2005/09/05
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    That's AT&T's private blacklist, so I assume you are trying to send the message to friend's that have AT&T as their ISP.

    I suggest you get one of them to contact AT&T to find out what's wrong.
     
    Arie,
    #2

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  4. 2005/09/05
    Roger at CCCC

    Roger at CCCC Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks Arie, I'll do just that!!

    Roger
     
  5. 2005/09/05
    Welshjim

    Welshjim Inactive

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    Arie--Just to show my ignorance.
    It would seem the friends have mchsi.com email addresses. I do not know what email service provider Roger at CCCC has.
    So, either mchsi.com feels that mail coming from att.net is spam and has blacklisted it or that att.net feels mchsi.com is a baddy site and has blocked outgoing mail addressed to it. But I was not aware that blacklists blocked outgoing mail regardless of destination, so the first idea seems the most logical.
    I could understand if email incoming to Roger from the friends was blocked by att.net (assuming that is Roger's email provider and that att.net had blacklisted mchsi.com). They seem to do that quite frequently.
    http://www.google.com/search?source...&q=what+is+blacklist.sequoia.ops.asp.att.net?
    But outgoing mail?
    So now I am really confused.
    Please educate me.
    P.S. The above Google references suggest att.net is not very cooperative about removing a blacklist.
    P.P.S.--69.66.0.11 is na.iowatelecom.net

    Roger at CCCC-- Looks like you may have to get another email service to be able to email those friends. As you probably know Yahoo, among others, has a free one and so does Google. You will need an invitation to use Google. Send me a PM if you want me to send you an invitation.
     
    Last edited: 2005/09/05
  6. 2005/09/05
    Roger at CCCC

    Roger at CCCC Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks Welshjim, for your additional comments.

    My own ISP and email provider is in fact iowatelecom.net. I am sending to friends who are using MCHSI.

    It does seem odd that "blacklist.sequioia..." now blocks EVERY message that I send to my friends who use the MCHSI service. I do have a list of about 50 email addresses that I use occasionally, and I wondered if going over the number 50 somehow triggered this spam checker.

    I don't know much about the Yahoo or Google emailing services, although I do have a Gmail address, but in any event what prevents the same thing from happening with a new address even if I do use the Yahoo or Google services?
     
  7. 2005/09/05
    Welshjim

    Welshjim Inactive

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    Roger at CCCC--As you can see from my post to Arie above, I am confused, so it may be too early for me to comment further.
    However ( :) ), It seems that att.net is somewhere in the link between you and your friends at mchsi.com. (Email often goes through several servers from sender to receiver.) And they have decided to blacklist either you, specifically, or, more likely, any mail from iowatelecom.net. You should mention this to iowatelecom.net.
    If you used Google, for example, att.net would presumably not block your mail since it now would be coming from yourname@gmail.com. (Unless they are blocking gmail.com as well!).
     
  8. 2005/09/06
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Here;s what's happening;

    1. The messages you send FROM xyz @ iowatelecom.net (your address) are being flagged as spam by ATT anti-spam service. (blacklist.sequioia)

    2. The anti-spam service is there to protect ATT customers from recieving spam AND other isps as well. (other isps can use this same blacklist)

    3. your email address or your entire domain (iowatelecom.net) or the email SUBJECT or certain words in the email BODY or certain attachments triggered the ATT anti-spam at some point in the past. (mchsi.com is using the ATT blacklist)

    4. As a result, either your address or the entire domain is now on the ATT blacklist.

    The quantity of messages sent at one time has nothing to do with it. If you send the same message to 50 people at one time, then 50 messages go to 50 (or less) DIFFERENT mailboxes at different locations (isps). The ONLY one monitoring the quantity of messages you send at one time is YOUR isp, who may or may not have limitations in place. (you can possibly be flagged by mchsi.com anti-spam if send large quantity of messages to mchsi.com addresses at one time, but is not likely because this number is usually set pretty high in anti-spam rulesets, something like 100 or 500)

    The most likely cause of the issue is that at some point in the past, your email address ended up on some spammer's list and the spammer used your address as the FROM field, or at some point someone who has your address in their own address book was infected with a mass email worm and the worm sent out infected mesages and put your address as the FROM field. Messages traversing the ATT network (and most all other isp networks today) get monitored for spam and viruses and then your address was ERRONIOUSLY put on the ATT blacklist.

    Another way to erroneously be placed on a blacklist is if someone else at ANY domain receives spam and your address is in the FROM field and this person does not realize you did not send the spam, and then this person (or persons) reports you to their isp as a spammer. many isps and web services use the same blacklist.sequioia.

    Blacklists are the poorest method of anti-spam. There's no "intelligence" involved, it's simply a "yes or no" logic.

    To fix this problem you must contact mchsi.com and attempt to have your name removed from their copy of the blacklist.sequioia, but this could prove frustrating and hopeless as once a name is on that blacklist it can be difficult to get system admins to remove it. The key to success will be how well you communicate the issue to the CORRECT person at mchsi.com. (locating the corrrect person is the most difficult thing to do because he or she is working behind the scenes and is usually not readily available to receive phone or email messages fro general public)
     
    Last edited: 2005/09/06
  9. 2005/09/06
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Not true. Email is handled by 2 servers, the smtp server of the sender's isp (or the sender's email service provider such as web based email like yahoo or gmail) and is then received by the recipients email server.

    The message itself is passed through all of the gateways & routers that all WWW packets pass through from origin to destination., but filtering of email messages only occurs at the smtp server or the destination server.

    It's possible that the sender's isp has a separate computer whose job is to filter messages prior to passing them on to the smtp server computer, but very unlikely. (added unnecessary expense, maintenence & potential for foul ups) A large isp may have a "cluster" of computers that act as one server that handles incoming & outgoing email messages & a separate comp in that cluster that does the message filtering, but understand that this cluster is still only just "one server ". (else an isp would have to provide customers a multitude of server addresses to be used in configuring email clients)

    For example, to set up email for COX, one uses smtp.east.cox.net and pop.east.cox.net if customer lives in certain geographical zone. The smtp & pop servers are at one location (a cox server farm). They may have 10 computers for smtp and 10 computers storing the received messages. The customer only needs the 2 server address above because the cluster of cox computers has but 2 individual addresses, smtp.east and pop.east.
     
  10. 2005/09/06
    Roger at CCCC

    Roger at CCCC Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks TonyT for your additional helpful comments.

    Although I strongly oppose spammers, having received an annoying amount of it myself, it also seems illegal or unethical or something that apparently anonymous and irresponsible blacklisters can simply make your email address unusable without any effective recourse by legitimate users.

    In any event, and maybe this should be a new thread, since I have my email lists set up in Outlook Express and it has all worked fine up to now, what is the easiest way to do something new, avoid the current problem, and also avoid any future problems of this sort? Are the Yahoo or Google email lists the best option? (Let me know if this should be in another thread, and I will ask it again.)
     
  11. 2005/09/06
    Welshjim

    Welshjim Inactive

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    TonyT--
    I am sure you are the expert on this.
    If were that simple, I would think blocking/finding spammers would be a lot easier.
    My email headers often show lots of handoffs involved.
    In any event, I am not too sure what this clarification has to do with the issue.
     
    Last edited: 2005/09/06
  12. 2005/09/06
    Zander

    Zander Geek Member Alumni

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    I think this is the part you're missing Jim. The email does indeed pass through many servers but they have nothing to do with any blacklist or spam filtering. The filtering only takes place in 2 places. The server the email is sent from and the server where it's received.
     
  13. 2005/09/07
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Jim, when I said "not true ", I was not implying that "you are wrong ", I was implying that it's simply incorrect. I should have worded my respnse in a more friendly manner. Apologies if my comment invalidated you, that is not my intention.

    see Zander's post below. (what you see in the headers is the sender ip address, sender's smtp server, routers, recipient's isp routers, recipient's mail server) see this:
    http://email.about.com/cs/spamgeneral/a/spam_headers.htm

    also, the main reason detecting and handling spam based on the email headers alone is so difficult is because spammers spoof (illegally use false ip addresses) the sender address and use smtp servers located in parts of the world where policing their activities is either impossible, not done at all, ignored or condoned by law enforcement so as to earn kickbacks/extortion money.

    Email headers are but a fraction of anti-spam technology.

    Finding and blocking spammers actually is easy, but accurate filtering is difficult, in that if 95% of spam is handled accurately then that 5% could include actual valid important messages that could make or break a business activity.

    There are several types of filtering (counts) with anti-spam. There are positives (spam), negatives (not spam), false positives (messsage declared as spam but is not spam) and false negatives (message declared as not spam but is spam). The false positives and false negatives are the difficult zone to handle accurately.

    The current solution to false declares in most anti-spam technologies is to use a "bulk mail" or "filtered" mail folder that the end user must then wade through and determine for himself what messages are junk & what is wanted. This consumes time and energy (dollars) in the business world and time & effort for the home user.
     
    Last edited: 2005/09/07
  14. 2005/09/07
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    1. Try contacting to have your address removed from your recipient's blacklists. (keep in mind that it could very well be the recipient at fault if they use a software anti-spam which in turn utilizes a blacklist). So first contact your recipients to verify their clients and security software are setup properly.

    2. contact at isp level to get erroneous blacklist corrected.

    3. use a free online email account for your bulk mail needs. (simplest, easiest, fastest solution to implement but is a pita having to switch between Outlook and then a web mail page)
     
  15. 2005/09/07
    Roger at CCCC

    Roger at CCCC Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks for all your comments.

    Great news for me anyway !!! My ISP, Iowatelecom.net, has apparently successfully got my email address removed from the blacklist. As of this morning (9/7/2005 8:43 am Central Time) my emails are being transmitted without blocking. I do not receive any error messages myself and several of my recipients say they are receiving everything fine.

    So THANKS for all your advice, and I recommend Iowatelecom for actually being helpful in this situation !!!
     
  16. 2005/09/07
    Welshjim

    Welshjim Inactive

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    TonyT and Zander--Thank you for explaining the issue in such good depth. I have learned something.
    My apologies for being brusque.
     
  17. 2005/09/07
    Welshjim

    Welshjim Inactive

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    Roger at CCCC--thanks for posting back with the good news!!
    Sorry I hijacked your thread for awhile.
     
  18. 2005/09/07
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Thread hijacking! LOL.
    It's great when the "thread driver" gets things resolved and esp great when the hijackers get things resolved and escape the thread police!
     
  19. 2005/09/07
    Newt

    Newt Inactive

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    Group hug now?

    :D :D
     
  20. 2005/09/08
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    I've seen you MVP pic Newt, I don't think I could stretch my arms around you, unless of course we were on a boat & I had to quickly grab my fishing rod.

    (I thoght of several ways to word the above but they seemed a bit too risky for this board, so had to inject the word "fishing ".)
     
  21. 2005/09/08
    Newt

    Newt Inactive

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    LOL - you are probably right but I sorta figgured you skinny fellas could hug one another in a group (so nobody would think any of you wuz weird).
     

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