1. You are viewing our forum as a guest. For full access please Register. WindowsBBS.com is completely free, paid for by advertisers and donations.

Version 1803 and Fast Startup

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by Christer, 2018/05/02.

  1. 2018/05/02
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/12/17
    Messages:
    6,560
    Likes Received:
    71
    A warning to those who, due to system imaging considerations or other reasons, had Fast Startup disabled: In their wisdom, like in the past with new version upgrades, Microsoft has reenabled it! If I only understood why ... :mad: ... they can't leave our settings "alone"?
     
  2. 2018/05/02
    alanrf

    alanrf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2004/03/05
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    8
    Fast Startup - probably the most inept, annoying and pointless piece of software known to mankind.
     

  3. to hide this advert.

  4. 2018/05/02
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2002/01/11
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    389
    FTR, I totally disagree. With a PC, especially one with modern hardware like DDR4 AND a motherboard/BIOS that "properly" supports Fast startup, this is a great feature.

    Do not assume because you don't like it that you represent or speak for the majority of users. It is enabled by default because it is not inept or pointless, but beneficial and works perfectly for most users.

    If you disabled it and this latest Windows update did not re-enable it, then IMO you have nothing to be complaining about.

    I have not seen a problem with imaging and Fast startup but am aware that some users of TrueCrypt had problems with TrueCrypt imaging, but then that software is no longer in development. Acronis and Reflect seem to work fine with Fast startup enabled now - though they did have problems when this feature first appeared in W8.x when W10 first came out.

    Fast startup can be a problem for some motherboards that fail to properly support it causing fans to continue to spin when the computer is supposedly asleep. It can also interfere with "Wake on LAN" for the relatively few people who use that feature (often with remotely located computers). And for those systems that are seriously low on free disk space (but of course, that means they need more disk space). Some dual-boot users may encounter problems if Fast startup is enabled too.

    Fast startup is NOT good for notebooks, obviously, because it does consume some power.

    Regardless, I am with Christer and agree 100% that updates should leave previously set options alone. It also restored those annoying (for me!) arrows on shortcut icons. Fortunately, that was easily and quickly remedied by Winaero Tweaker. It also removed my cherished Windows 7 Games, but Winaero quickly resolved that too, and even kept my statistics. :)

    @Christer - Did you report it using the Feedback Hub?
     
    Last edited: 2018/05/02
    Bill,
    #3
  5. 2018/05/02
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/12/17
    Messages:
    6,560
    Likes Received:
    71
    No, I didn't think of that option. I'll have a look and find out if it is easy and straight forward, so to speak.

    Edited: Done, will be interesting to find out how it works.
     
    Last edited: 2018/05/02
  6. 2018/05/02
    rsinfo

    rsinfo SuperGeek Alumni

    Joined:
    2005/12/25
    Messages:
    4,032
    Likes Received:
    172
    Had already submitted it to MS twice in last 1 year but still MS insists on turning it on, without any message to the user.

    I had many desktops damaging their Windows installation as the user switches off the PC even when Windows is busy writing as the screen turns blank. Either the screen shouldn't turn blank or it shouldn't be turned on automatically on installation of Windows new versions.
     
  7. 2018/05/03
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2002/01/11
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    389
    It would not surprise me if you don't hear anything directly. Hopefully, future updates will just respect your settings. That said, the priority put on fixing that will depend too on how many users report the same problem.
    Turn it off? You mean they just killed power? I have "shutdown" several systems during upgrades and Windows picked up where it left off.
    I think the problem there is these big updates involve replacing critical system files in a specific sequence. And they require a reboot in between. Rather than having to deal with users complaining they had to sit there and be forced to manually reboot the machine every few minutes, Microsoft initiates auto-reboots for better unattended updates. I see that as a good thing.

    It is the "without any message to the user" part that irritates me the most. IMO, if Fast startup is not causing problems, it should be enabled by default. I really see no reason to disable it. If you don't want your computer going into standby mode, then unplug it from the wall or flip the master power switch on the back of the PSU - that's what you must do regardless if Fast startup is enable, or not. And it should be noted that is an ATX (hardware) standard, not a Microsoft thing.

    And
    if an update fixes past problems/conflicts, it is okay to re-enable it IMO.

    BUT I agree with you 100% and users should be notified these "Registry" settings have been reset - in particular those settings users can easily make through Windows own menu systems, like Fast startup. That is, at the very least, we should be told about changed settings that didn't require the use of manual Registry editing or the use of 3rd party tweakers to make.
     
    Bill,
    #6
  8. 2018/05/03
    alanrf

    alanrf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2004/03/05
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    8
    Allow me to clarify my experience with Fast Startup on my desktop.

    About a year ago, I began to find that on starting the computer next day, the boot up process would suddenly stop and the computer would close down with no message. Simple restarting always cured the problem and, although it happened at irregular intervals, typically around 4-5 days it finally became an irritation. I had suspected a faulty power switch and put off any further investigation. Then by chance, I found a reference to Fast Startup; on this excellent site, as it happens.


    That triggered off a train of thought and I tried disabling Fast Startup. Joy of joys, from that day forwards, some four months now, the computer has behaved faultlessly.


    On that basis I feel that Fast Startup was actually anything but.

    Not sure why it was implemented on a desktop as I had always thought it was more relevant to laptops and hibernation files.

    Whatever, no Fast Startup - no problems worked for me.

    Certainly, when I get the 1803 update installed, that will be the first thing to check!
     
  9. 2018/05/03
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2002/01/11
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    389
    No. It was the other way around.

    It is more for PCs rather than notebooks. Hibernate is not used on PCs, only notebooks. Instead, a hybrid sleep mode is used in PCs. This is because the ATX Form Factor standard for PCs requires ATX power supplies provide +5Vsb standby voltage be applied to several points across a PC motherboard whenever the PC is shutdown, but not unplugged (and when the master power switch on the back of the PSU, if there is one, is set to on). This allows for such options as "Wake on Mouse" and "Wake on Keyboard". It also allows the RAM, in particular, DDR4 to go into a low-voltage state but still retain its data.

    Fast startup on a PC takes advantage of this hybrid mode by using the data in the RAM to wake up that much faster. BUT - should a power outage (or Windows Update reboot, for example) occur when the computer is in sleep mode, there is still a hyperfil (hibernate) file to boot completely into.

    With notebooks, this hybrid mode is not used (except with some notebooks when the charger is connected) because keeping +5Vsb voltage alive during sleep will run down the battery.
    I would advise against that. When you get the 1803 update, I would advise you to leave it as is for a few days and see if you have that same shutdown problem. If not, no need to disable Fast startup.

    You might also make sure your hardware drivers and motherboard BIOS are all current. Since Fast startup does work, this could be a BIOS or driver issue that may have been addressed in a driver or BIOS update.
     
    Bill,
    #8
  10. 2018/05/03
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/12/17
    Messages:
    6,560
    Likes Received:
    71
    That's the reason I posted the thread, a heads up for those "unbelievers".

    There's another way to disable Fast Startup and that's to disable hibernation. If you do, the option under Power Options to turn it on/off gets hidden but if you want to use hibernation, then that's not an option. (I haven't done it that way on my own LapTop and consequently don't know if that setting too is reversed by an upgrade to a new version.)
     
  11. 2018/05/03
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/12/17
    Messages:
    6,560
    Likes Received:
    71
    Now, I have and in six months or so, we will know the answer!
     
  12. 2018/05/04
    rsinfo

    rsinfo SuperGeek Alumni

    Joined:
    2005/12/25
    Messages:
    4,032
    Likes Received:
    172
    Bill, I am not talking of upgrades/updates. I am talking about normal PC operation.

    When Fast Startup is enabled & the user Shuts Down the PC , Windows starts to write the RAM to the hard disk but somewhere along the line it just blanks the monitor. At this time, most of the users just switch off the PC believing that the shut down is complete, but it's not. Next time when the user switches on the PC, he gets errors.
     
  13. 2018/05/04
    retiredlearner

    retiredlearner SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2004/06/25
    Messages:
    7,150
    Likes Received:
    499
    Last edited: 2018/05/04
  14. 2018/05/04
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2002/01/11
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    389
    Ummm, no. That's not how it works. Understand to "switch off" as you are describing requires users to reach around back of their PCs and flip the master power switch on the back of the power supply - or yank the power cord out of the wall! Who does that? That in no way is how most users shutdown their computers.

    If they are, then it is no wonder they have data corruption.
     
  15. 2018/05/04
    rsinfo

    rsinfo SuperGeek Alumni

    Joined:
    2005/12/25
    Messages:
    4,032
    Likes Received:
    172
    In India 100% users do it. They switch off the UPS when the computer shuts down.
     
  16. 2018/05/04
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2002/01/11
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    389
    Well, that is not how PCs are designed to be used. They should go through the Start menu, select Shutdown, WAIT until the computer shuts down and there is no more drive activity indications (the LED stops flashing), then and only then kill power. And that is regardless their Fast startup setting.
     
  17. 2018/05/04
    alanrf

    alanrf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2004/03/05
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    8
    Bill, that strategy doesn't work for me. Shutdown, wait until computer completely shuts down and then kill the power.

    Sometimes there was no issue, sometimes there was, as noted in my earlier post.

    Killing Fast Shutdown resolved all issues.

    Ergo, in my case Fast Shutdown caused avoidable issues.
     
  18. 2018/05/04
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2002/01/11
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    389
    But that puts you in a tiny minority. And that's fine for you. But if you represented the majority, Microsoft would not enable it by default. So what is not fine is this for you do not speak for all of mankind:
     
  19. 2018/05/04
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

    Joined:
    2002/12/17
    Messages:
    6,560
    Likes Received:
    71
    Well, in another thread I labelled Fast Startup as such and that (FS) is to speed up startup by a few seconds on a SSD. On my LapTop, I notice no significant difference, if any at all so why make things more complicated than necessary? Are we in such a hurry?
     
  20. 2018/05/04
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2002/01/11
    Messages:
    3,332
    Likes Received:
    389
    To me is it not complicated at all. And again, this is the hardware and software working together in a joint effort. Microsoft did not design DDR4 to run in low voltage states to maintain data. And Microsoft did not design the motherboards or PSUs to keep that voltage alive. Microsoft just takes advantage of it.

    It is important to note too that users have for years complained that it takes too long for Windows to boot and wake from sleep. Users have been demanding "instant on" forever. What's wrong with MS trying to give it to them?

    I enjoy sitting down at my computer, tapping my space bar and have my computer waiting on me, instead of the other way around.
     
  21. 2018/05/04
    retiredlearner

    retiredlearner SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

    Joined:
    2004/06/25
    Messages:
    7,150
    Likes Received:
    499
    My HP 1000 Notebook is in Default settings (with SSD) running W10 Home 64 bit and from cold Start = 25 seconds.
    Fast Startup is in default setting and as Bill has stated - it works fine and Shutdown works as normal.
    The only time my Power circuit is switched off at the wall socket is when we go on holiday.

    Obviously electricity costs must be the reason?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.