tune-up proggy

hey guys,

after some recommendation on a program to use for general system maintanence/ optimization. (eg/ Sandra 2003, System Mechanic, Norton Utlilies or Works etc etc ).
Something thats quite affective and does the job. Any comments/ recomm. of what people out there are using would be really helpful.

Cheers

 

Scandisk, defrag, Adaware, Spybot, RegScrubXP, windows disk cleanup.

 

I agree with Reboot's suggestions above, and advise clients to set up a regular schedule of maint programs. I, too, run both AdAware and Spybot on my system.

I also like Norton Utilities WinDoctor. On my own system, I did a custom install of NU, and left off a few things, because I do not like System Doctor, and had some probs with it and XP. I think that SpeedDisk works better than the defrag built into XP. JMO

Sandra has more info than the average user needs to know- it's like Belarc on steriods. But, I bought it, use it and have found it to be very helpful. It's a great troubleshooting tool as well.

One of the most important, yet overlooked, maintainance tools is your UPS. I have seen a lot of troubled comps suffering from power fluctuations. In addition to preventing surges and lightning damage, a good UPS keeps the supply of power your comp receives at a constant level. Someone else could better explain the technical reasons for why this matters so much, but it does. The software we talked about is very useful, performance and diagnostic wise, but if bad info is written, it doesn't much matter!

Cheers from Ohio ( where the only local ISP is also the elec & phone & cable company, and vehemently denies any sort of involvement or responsibility when customers have lightning or other power issues that result in damaged systems!)

 

There's NO WAY I can recommend using Norton anything, nor System Mechanic, nor any piece of software that cost money.
The only thing Norton still produces that actually works, is Ghost, everything else is bloatware, and comes with LiceUpdate, and usually causes more problems than it solves.
There's a rather lengthy thread about some of this stuff in the XP forum.
Windows has most of the tools you need already built in. Don't go looking for a "magical, one-button-fix" for anything, it simply doesn't exist.

 

I will read the thread you suggested, Reboot. I don't understand the issue, I guess. I have been using Symantec stuff for years and been very satisfied. Did you have a bad experience? Is LiceUpdate a play on LiveUpdate? Forgive me, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really don't understand. I'm new here.

 

My favorite antivirus, firewall, defrag, scheduler, reg editor, system backup, reg cleaner, disk scanner, diagnostics, file undeleter, uninstaller, zip manager, etc., etc. is V-Com (Ontrack) System Suite:

http://www.v-com.com/product/ss_ind.html

(There is a magical, one-button fix. LOL. I have never used it, though ).

Generally, I agree with reboot . People make a lot of money trying to convince people that their app is better then the one that comes with Windows.

Defrag is defrag. Despite all the different methods and theories, a few minutes after it is done, no one could tell which one you used, Some people never defrag. Any is better than none and XP's is as good as the best of them.

Disk Cleanup has the added safety feature that only files not accessed recently get removed. This prevents the loss of data from apps, like X-Setup, that use the temp folder for config storage. It works fine.

Chkdsk is as good or better than any other disk checker.

Etc.

PS. Norton is a disease. Sometimes people don't realize how much damage that company really does. They don't offer patches to clearly buggy software unless it is almost life-threatening---they tell you to buy the next version. Their AV is paranoid and frequently interferes with other apps. These problems do not appear to be caused by Norton, but they are.

Norton AV has caused me more problems than any virus ever could. It is curing a headache by cutting off the head.

But, others disagree.

 

Sorry Johanna, it is a bad pun, I admit.
People who use Norton from DAY 1. BEFORE any other software is installed on a system, and use it regularily, have few problems (except if you ever want to uninstall it).
The AV is bloatware, slow, connection interrupting, POS. Guaranteed, just when you're online fragging your ass off, doing the best ever, Norton will start up, with live update, or a system scan, and get you disconnected, or ping spike to 3000 and you're dead in the water. Or it will start doing a background scan in the middle of burning your fave music CD, and you end up with another coaster. It's just not worth the money, nor the headaches and loss of hair associated.
DO NOT get me started on the McAffee suite. If possible, it's even worse than Norton.

Ontrack's system suite is an excellent bunch of tools, not for the faint of heart, it CAN do serious damage if used wrong, but again, it's NOT free, and most built in Windows stuff is as good, or better than any 3rd party app.

"Norton is a disease." Period.

 

but for people like me who have used it for six years and have been well-served by it and have never experienced the multitude of evil events you've described, it seems like a sound policy to stick with what works.

interesting observation. and that is what i have done with each new box... installed nsw right away. and i definitely use it regularly. you may have hit on what separates the happy symantec customers from the unhappy ones.

i'll say this, few detractors are as vehement in their assertions as those who dislike norton....Norton is a disease is a new one on me.



mark

 

Okay, I think I get it now. I always install NIS before I even go online, or plug in the modem, for that matter. I'm also on a cable connection, so I don't get disconnected. Norton just works quietly in the background for me, updates or not. I have had some problems with Norton interfering with other software, but I've been able to tweak my way through those issues. I have never tried the AV or Firewall, so have no experience with either. I do agree, too, that it is next to impossible to uninstall Norton completely! But, it seems that Norton is "idiot proof" enough for the less experienced users, too, saving me time and headaches with my clients.

I have been reading some about Symantec adopting DRM (Digital Rights Management) and that has me concerned because of privacy issues. I also think that if I paid for something, I should be able to use it any way I please!

Thank you for explaining to me what you meant, Reboot, and for recommending an alternative. I will check it out. I have learned a lot here, and am grateful for all of you who take the time to patiently explain something.

Cheers from Ohio

 

Johanna:

The ONLY way to do it IMHO.

Too bad it takes a "tweak" to get through the issue.

Then you have two less headaches than most.

Totally scary stuff. No way, no how, is any of that getting near any of my systems!

You're most welcome for the help. Ask any time

mr.mark:

Ask any tech (the real ones, not phone support), and they'll agree. IF you install it immediately after the OS, and IF you use it regularily, it can bring back health to an otherwise messed up system.
Do NOT wait 6 months to a year of installs/uninstalls, trialware, bloatware, etc., and then install it and expect wonders. You'll have no end of problems.

My two fave remarks about Norton, it's a disease, or it's a virus. Usually scares my customers away from using it, and the ones that didn't take my advice and tried it anyhow, have all come back to me to have it removed, and then returned it and demanded their money back. (i don't sell it, they get it elsewhere, usually on the advice of a "tech" (I use that term liberally) at one of the big box stores.)

 

Also what has not been mentioned ( that I saw anyway ) what other software is combined with Norton. Some times that can create more problems the the one program alone.

Or some user try to use a combination of various sofware that does the same thing. That can prove to be a NO-NO.

And whoever said that you cannot tell the difference which defrag is run. Maybe you can't but Windows may Especially if you have Taskmonitor loading at start up. Norton and Windows defrags the drive in entirely different ways. The only time I use SpeedDisk is to put the swap file at the front of the partition if need be.

But DiskDoctor, Windoctor, The Reg Optimizer are very helpfull tools.

You call Norton Bloated ? Well what about Windows XP. To me that is an overrated, bloated with useless stuff piece of junk. And as far as I can see no bettter than Win98 SE.

And as far as Norton goes it is no different than other software. It MUST be handled properly.

Like most all software of the type it may not be suitable for all machines or users. But that does not make the software itself bad in anyway, shape or form.

I myself have nothing byt Norton AV, Firewall etc. on ANY of my machines. And I have NEVER had any problem with it right from the days of DOS/Win31. on up to and including the short time I had XP.

But like Johanna Norton is the FIRST thing loaded after a new install.

BillyBob

 

Reboot,
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what are the problems with Norton Firewall and AV? I never understood why people would want IS, AV and a FW on 3 separate programs. Are they the same as NIS, just not all in one package, or are they differently configured?

BTW, my daughter's comp is on dial up, and a LiveUpdate can take an hour to finish, and usually means a reboot, so I know what you mean about the inconvenience factor. Her system does not have the capability mine has, and bogs down or freezes if there is too much going on simultaneously, then, after I boot it again, LU starts from the beginning. Ugh.

TIA, appreciate your sharing what you know.

 

NIS is Firewall and Anti-Virus in one package. And together they work very nicely. But separated they don't seem to work as well.

That may well be machine realated not Liveupdate. Plus being on Dial-up.

I am on Cable with all three machines. One machine takes about ten to 15 minutes ( after the initial download ) to finish.

One machines takes about 5 minuties.

This one done and restarted ( if needed ) in about 2 minutes or less.

Of course for all three it depends on how many updates are included.

And YES. It may well also have something to do with what else is running at the time. Which actually should be nothing.

BillyBob

 

We're back to the beginning. The single largest problem with computers today (or forever, it seems) is user error.
As Bill mentioned, combining too much of the wrong stuff (software) is like adding too many spices to the soup. You end up throwing it out.
Agreed, XP is a form of bloatware, however, it is an OS that many choose to use, like an app you choose to use. If you use it, deal with it. I'm simply trying to educate others about the possible pitfalls of using Norton products.
Do they perform as advertised? NO!, and that's my biggest gripe.
Do they warn purchasers beforehand about the possible problems uninstalling? NO!
Do they tell everyone that LU will take longer than an hour on dial-up? NO!
Do they mention anything, anywhere, about Norton not playing well with other children? NO!
[/rant]

Problems:
Firewall(s) in general are so totally misunderstood, that most users don't know how to configure one, and rely on default settings. Good luck getting MS updates, or any other number of things you NEED with a misconfigured firewall.
Zonealarm came close, almost id10t proof, but it's uninstall has a huge flaw, and causes a no-boot situation, unless the specific instructions on their site are followed. The same applies to Norton. Uninstallations usually are followed by error messages about programs not starting, or not found. Norton firewall is no better than any other, and worse than most, simply because it's confusing to use (for most).
If you're on dial-up, forget running a firewall, it's just not worth it. Use other tools to keep the system clean, and if you pay enough attention to your connection stats, you won't get a hacker. Not that most are interested in you anyhow, they're looking for corp lan's and such.
If you insist on running a software firewall, get AnalogX's.
Save your money, and buy a router with built in firewall, and even better, get one with SPI (Stateful Packet Inspection).

Norton AV is simply bloatware, and guaranteed to slow things down, especially when you want something done NOW. See my rant above.

NIS is supposedly a combination of the two, with more buttons. I agree with Bill, together they seem to work well enough.

Why not? I should be able to surf, do email, burn a CD, play solitaire, and chat all at the same time. Given that my connection might get a little congested, but I shouldn't have to give up doing one thing just to run another. It's not the nature of computers to do only one thing at one time. Multitasking is what I want to do, and I expect to be able to do it (within reason, based on system spec/speed).

 

That alone my Friend says it all. I have the same problem among my machines. On this one I can run several things at once. On the other one I can't

You seem to be missing my point. I am in no way trying to say you are wrong. Because you are not.

But my main gripe with you is that you seem to be applying it to only Norton software.

Heck man. That can be applyed to any and all software. No matter who makes it. Even Microsoft Windows It leads us to believe that Windows can be installed and all will be just peachy. All hardware will pick up and run fine. Well, if that was ( or is ) the case then howcome this BBS is needed to help solve so many problems ?

And a good many of those problems are realted to getting Windows and other software to play nice together.

I could say the same about McAfee software but I won't because I know that some of the problems I had with it were related to other than McAfee.

I could also say it about Windows itself. Many times I have had to make it behave.

And as to un-installing. How many of the newer parts of Windows CAN NOT be un-installed either. And some of it if you try to take it out manually it may kill something else. Or else Windows may just put it right back in for you. I found that our VERY quickly with ME.

That is one of the Biggest reason that I stick with SE. I AS THE USER can control it.

So again reboot. Just apply it to ALL software not just Norton.

Over and out for now. Gotta get ready to play our Tuesday evening Golf Game with a Friend in Canada. Before which I MUST shutdown somethings that are starting up at bootup and POWER DOWN and restart this machine so as to make sure they are not in RAM. Otherwsie I will be knocked out after about the 2nd hole and be doing it anyway. And that my Friend is a problem with MICROSOFT Links LS 2003. The patch for it that just came out and I have installed is supposed to fix a couple of things but we will see.

BillyBob

 

as far as rants about norton being a disease and bloatware and just bashing in general, i think it goes beyond "trying to help" and takes on a personal tone.

after all, plenty of other folks have had great success with norton, and their opinions are just as valid and worthy, but they just don't take on the intensity of what reboot is going on about.

i will not bash any product, particularly one that is as popular and widely used as norton. i will say that i have not had success with it (if that is the case), but why bash something that so many others find to be a great product?

the detractors are always the most vocal, which explains why at times it seems like a greater number of people dislike a product. i've used the analogy before, but i think it's just like a toothache... when you've got one, you complain long and loud. but when you don't have one, who goes around telling people how great their teeth feel? answer: no one! <g>

a final note on product bashing in general....

"Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than the arguments of its opposers." - William Penn



mark

 

Ontrack's system suite is an excellent bunch of tools, not for the faint of heart, it CAN do serious damage if used wrong,

So what is different about it from other things like McAfee, Norton, Windows and some of Microsofts' own software ?

and most built in Windows stuff is as good, or better than any 3rd party app.

To that I have to pretty much agree.

Although if used improperly it can do some SERIOUS damage also. More than once I have had to re-install Windows due to improper use of DELETE Or thinking aw heck I don't need that. Or some other stupid thing that I knew better but did anyway.

OR. just plain not paying attention to what I was doing.

I have seen several references to uninstalling Norton. What is the problem ?.

If it does not install properly YES it can be a B***H. But so can any other software.

Anybody ever try to get rid of a bad install of McAfee ?

And last but certainly not least. MANY bad installs of software may be due to the fact that AV is not shut off first.

Or next in line is getting in a HURRY and not waiting long enough for Windows to settle down after restarting. Even though the hour glass disapears it still takes windows a minute or two to get FULLY settled down.

BillyBob

PS.
We did have a great game of Golf and the patch did fix a couple of things. The only problem we did have was my cable dropping out. NO I did not win.

BB

 

Heh...

Don't get me started on McAfee!
What's different is the amount of room it takes up, and the hoops one has to jump through to remove it, and contrary to most other "suites" of "I can magically fix your computer" software, Ontrack's suite actually works as advertised!
Take a look at this thread, titled "Symantec Hell ":http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58888

mr.mark is right, the detractors such as myself, are the most vocal. Only because we do NOT want noob's to get discouraged, and frustrated with their system's because of **** like Norton.

 

OH Boy. Do I ever agree to not getting started on McAfee.

But I also know users that have no problem with it.

This is the part upsets me. Maybe to you it is. It may not have worked to your liking. That does not mean that the software is ****.

So Windows itself does not ( or at least did not ) always work to my liking. But I have learned to control it just like I maintain control over Norton software. And I now have 98SE trained quite well so that it understands that I will take no nonsense from it.

I have Friend of many years that Norton does not work well for. But, he admits it is him and his machines and the way he runs them and not the Software.

I do not like Windows XP. Should I call it a piece of **** ?

Much against the advice of other ( including MS ) I have removed many things from Windows SE and IE. Mostly Outlook Express. Not because it is **** but I just do not use it. And for some reason that I never found it kept wanting to be my default E-mail and it was not even setup for e-mail use. BYE-BYE. Many, many users swear by OE and I always swore at it. I lost my address book to many times.

If you wish to advance a few warning about possible problems when using Norton, feel free to do so. I myself MANY times have warned users about Norton CrashGuard. ( which has been since taken out ).

I completely disagree with much of the Post you pointed to. I put NSW 2003 into XP as the first software install and had no problems ( due to Norton ) at all. And I beat the heck out of it purposely.

What quite often happens is that users install lets say Norton Software and use it. BUT, what they may forget to do is to turn off any Windows installed counterparts. Then the two can get in a battle and the user becomes the loser.

I am referring to things like Norton SpeedDisk. It is not a good idea to run it AND Windows defrag. One or the other not both. Especailly if you have TaskMonitor loading.

Yes the unhappy users do tend to be more vocal. Well now it is time for a Happy user to get vocal and say as I have many times.

" There is no one piece of software that is going to be suitable for use by every machine, person or Operating system. "

Have a good day and Please stop calling perfectly good software ****.

BillyBob

 

LOL, ok, I'll agree to stop calling it ****

Sure, I do, all the time!

My point exactly. The user has to learn somewhere, and nowhere does Norton point this out. If the package says it's for Windows XP, then it should run properly in XP, and the user should not be required to "remember ", or "know" to turn off the XP stuff.
Anyhow, enough of our agreeing to disagree let's just say that the bad seem to outweigh the good, or maybe it's only because the bad are the voiced heard (squeaky wheel syndrome).