Stuck in a loop trying to install Win98/98-SE

I'm in the process of setting-up a new(ish) SATA hard drive to dual-boot into Win98-SE and WinXP Home. I've previously formatted the drive and set up primary partitions to hold the two o/s's plus a logical partition accessible to both for my data. I'm using Smart Boot Manager as my boot loader, and have set it to hide each o/s from the other.

Problem at present is that I'm stuck trying to install Win98 (of any flavour) on the first primary partition. I first tried to install from my SE upgrade CD; the computer booted from this but soon asked for a prior M$- certified blah blah blah... When I loaded my original (OEM version) Win98 CD in the drive, it was not accepted.

(BTW it really irks me that altho' M$ some time ago withdrew support from both of these products, the unfortunate customer is still forced to jump thro' all these blasted hoops. End of rant.)

So I deduced that the only way I was going to make progress was by installing Win98 from the original CD, and then using the upgrade CD to upgrade it to 98-SE. I popped the boot floppy in my floppy drive, clicked on 'setup with CD support', and it installed.

However, having done so, it brings up a whole slew of 'Windows has found new hardware' messages for pretty-well everything the computer needs to run - including the CD-ROM drive's IDE input controller! None of these devices will run unless I install their drivers and I can't install their drivers (nearly all of which are on CDs) without being able to load the VIA chipset's driver, which - you've guessed it - is on a CD. Nor can I download any of these drivers from VIA's website direct to my hard drive because (of course) the LAN driver can't be installed either so I can't access the Internet from Win98! Nor can I use floppies (even if I had them) because my USB floppy drive won't function either until these other drivers are installed... So, Catch 22 with a vengeance!

I'm totally flummoxed. Does anyone have a solution, please? Is there something I'm missing?

 

Try uninstalling (remove) the IDE Controller for the CD drive in Device Manager. When you reboot and the New Hardware wizard asks for drivers, click Cancel. Windows should load standard IDE Controller drivers to at least let you run the VIA/chipset CD.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/189526/en-us

Add DOS CD drivers to the Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/293185/en-us

Still stuck. Use the following instructions to copy the VIA files/folders to your harddrive by booting to the Windows CD (CD-Rom support) then putting the VIA disk in the drive.

Matt

 

Hi Matt (again!)

Yes, I did this and it enabled me to install VIA's Bus Master IDE Controller but unfortunately this doesn't help.

I seem to be in deep, deep trouble. Windows does load the standard drivers but they refuse to work. Both primary and secondary Controllers have yellow exclamation marks, and their 'properties' say they either aren't working properly or not all the drivers are installed "(Code 10) ". Hitting 'update driver' invokes the 'Add new hardware' wizard, which reports that "the best driver Windows found is already installed " And loading VIA's own IDE driver instead doesn't change anything.

This tells you to enable both IDE channels in 'settings', which I did. No difference. It also tells you (if this doesn't have any effect) to follow the directions in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190303/EN-US/ "How to use Real-mode CD-ROM drivers from Win98 startup disk ". So I followed this (laboriously!). No difference.

Sorry Matt but I don't see the point of this. I don't have a problem getting access to the CD drive when in DOS because the Startup floppy has a virtual CDROM drive on it. Or am I missing the point?

I've spent (literally) many hours going around and around this, trying everything I could think of - including reinstalling Win98/Win98-SE upgrade - and all to no avail. I don't know where to go from here.

BTW to add to my frustration/confusion, I was (by trial and error) able eventually to get the CD drive to work under Win98, and used it to install the SE upgrade from CDROM. Whereupon, on booting into 98-SE the CD drive no longer appeared in Device Manager and I've not been able to get it back since.

 

I had probably better check. You have installed Win 98 to the C: drive? It won't work on any other drive. Are you certain it should work on a SATA drive (sorry, I'm still using IDE until the bugs are completely ironed out for SATA)? If you have the CD/DVD drive set as master on primary IDE channel, the system won't like this (I think I mentioned this in your Hardware thread).

Maybe what it needs is the SATA controllers installed, because if it is running on SATA controllers it may be trying to use IDE drivers to run the SATA controllers. See if there is information at the motherboard manufacturer's website about installing Win 98 onto SATA drives.

It says here 98SE is required:
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Operating_Systems/Win98/Q_21299173.html
(Scroll down to see the answers). Note the answer about not using Enhanced Mode.
Win 98 First Edition will try to run the SATA controllers as IDE controllers.

You should be able to install a full version of Win 98SE straight from the upgrade disk, it will just ask for you to put the CD from the previous version in the drive during install. Did you know this?

As I said, now that you have Win 98SE, try installing or reinstalling the drivers for the SATA controllers. Once the SATA controllers are installed you should be able to install the VIA IDE controllers.

This might be my method. Open the SATA drivers disk (floppy?) in My Computer or Windows Explorer. Find the .inf file (check if there is one specifically for Win 98). Right-click on the .inf file and select Install. Go to Device Manager and remove any listings for SATA Controllers (they might be seen as SCSI or some other "non-IDE" controllers). Highlight and remove them. When you reboot, the Add New hardware wizard should realize that it is a SATA controller it is looking for, get it to search on the SATA controller drivers disk. If not, use the radio button to select a driver from a list, it may appear on the next screen or you may need to find it in the list of manufacturers. You can use the "Have Disk..." button to direct it to the driver files on the floppy(?).

Hope this theory is suitable

Matt

 

Umhh

I think we might have our wires slightly crossed, Matt.

It's actually not the SATA disk that seems to be having the problem. Initially, to try to keep things clean (and bearing in mind that - for the time being only - I still had 2 copies of WinXP installed, one on each disk, and didn't want to get them confused) I attempted to install Win98/98-SE with only the SATA drive enabled in the BIOS. At some stage I managed to install the VIA SATA RAID driver under Win98 (can't remember how/when now).

(I haven't mentioned, so as not to get too detailed, that somewhere along the way the MBR on my WinXP partition on the SATA drive got corrupted and that copy became inaccessible - so I removed it. But the partition is still there 'til I get 'round to reinstalling WinXP on it. I don't think this has any relevance though).

Subsequently, whenever I have re-enabled the P-ATA drive (eg, now) the Primary partition on it which holds what is currently my only installed copy of WinXP is my C: drive. The Win98-SE Primary partition and my common data Extended partition, both on the SATA drive, are visible and the CD-ROM drive and USB floppy drive visible and functioning normally.

If, whilst keeping the PATA drive enabled in the BIOS, I re-boot into Win98-SE its partition (on the SATA disk remember) becomes my C: drive, but

1. 'disk drives' in Device Manager shows only the SATA drive
2. the CD-ROM drive isn't included anywhere in Device Manager, and doesn't function
3. presumably, this is because neither the Primary nor the Secondary Bus Master IDE controllers (dual fifo) will install properly - as already described
4. the common data Extended partition (on the same disk) is visible/accessible
5. the WinXP partition is neither visible nor accessible

No, I have this drive set as master on the secondary IDE channel (and the PATA drive as master on the primary IDE channel). This is also the way the BIOS shows them.

I can't access the solution without subscribing for $9.95 a month

Yes, the second time around I discovered that this was the case. I think I must have done something stupid the first time

I'm wondering whether I should see if I can uninstall the SATA Raid driver when running Win98, reboot and let Windows install its own IDE drivers once again (this time without the SATA driver having been installed under Win98). If this works it should mean that I get my optical drive back - if so, my problems would be on the way to a solution. Think I'll try this and report back.

EDIT It didn't work. However, I do now have the Hard Disk controllers installed under Win98-SE! It turned out that I had without realising it somehow managed to omit installing all the elements in VIA's 4-in-1 driver pack. I now realise that it must have been by using this pack that I managed to install these controllers under Win98. Why on earth installing the 98-SE upgrade off CDROM, from inside Win98, should cause these controllers to be removed is a total mystery to me. But it did.

I'm still struggling with trying to get the USB drivers to function under 98-SE. At present none of my USB peripherals (printer, FDD, etc) work.

 

Oh good, you seem to have been able to get the VIA drivers installed completely. During the installation it asks if you would like to install each one of the four drivers individually. I install all 4, but some motherboards only use 3 so if I find any problems I rerun the install and it has the option to uninstall each one.

If you are still interested, scroll to the bottom of that Experts Exchange page, you should see the answers, they are below the advertising.

USB
Go to Device Manager. Go to Universal Serial Bus Controllers (it will be at the bottom of the list). Click the + (plus sign). Highlight and "Remove" all the controllers and root hubs.
Reboot.
When the Add New Hardware wizard runs, run the "Search for the best drivers ". On the next screen it will show the places to search (floppy, CD, etc), uncheck all the locations. Windows should find and install the drivers that are now located in the Windows\Inf folder (now being after you ran the 4 in 1 installation). My system has 4 USB controllers and 1 "enhanced" controller, the hardware wizard ran 5 times to install the drivers for each (I just reinstalled mine to see how the wizard runs).

Matt

 

Well, I'm about ready to give up on Win98.

As it stands:-

1. nothing I do succeeds in getting my USB floppy drive (part of a Mitsumi 7-in-1 card reader) to function
2. all attempts to connect to the internet have failed

So, it's more or less totally useless to me. Not sure really why I ever thought it would be a good idea but - of course - I didn't appreciate what a total PITA it would turn out to be

EDIT

OK I take it all back!!! I had not read my mobo's handbook carefully enough regarding installing the network controller under Win98. I now have internet connection.

Also, I finally managed to penetrate various weird characters in Mitsumi's software (presumably substitutes for Japanese characters), and have now at last installed the USB FDD driver.

So after a great deal of teeth-gnashing I finally do have Win98-SE up and running. Now to proceed to the rest of my project...