routers, switches and hub

This may sound stupid but I need help in understanding the connection between the devices in the subject line. Speifically where does a cross over cable come into play. I have worked with hubs a lot in a non daisy chained environment and also routers in a single router configuration for high speed internet connection.

My lack here is when to use a cross over cable between what devices and when it is needed, does a router with switched ports make the need for a cross over non existant.

Knowledge would be appreciated cuz I am picking up clients where and existing hub, switch, routers are already installed and I need to understand their relationship a little better. Know the logic just loosing something in the translation.

Thanks a head of time.

 

Simply put like devices need a crossover.

To network 2 computers together reqiures a crossover cable because it is NIC to NIC.

The only difference is that the send and recieve wires are crossed.

So not being like devices a compuyer with a NIC to a hub/switch does not need a crossover.

Normally when connect 2 hub/switches togather you will need a crossover. But this is now changing some of the autodetect the cable and will work either way. Others have switch to flip to set it either way.

You can have 2 hub/switches and they may have an uplink port, this is to connect them together without tying up a port. Uplink ports do not use a crossover.

If the hub/switch has no uplink port the you can link them together by using a crossover (like devices) to a regular port on each.

OK!

Mike

 

Mike

Thank you very much for the info. just what I was looking for. But I'll throw another one at ya. I know what a hub does, I know what a router does but where does a switch come into play.

Why use a switch ???

 

Well to keep it simple for a few computers it really don't matter like at home for a couple of stations.

A hub the oldest technology sends streams of packets continually thru the wires trying to find the place to put it.

Switch is smarter can send almost directly to the computer that needs it. Faster less network activity to do the same thing, much much less.

Prices almost the same so go switch!

mike

 

Also see what Newt has to say.


http://windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=84237#post84237
He talks better than I do!

And if you have a fishing question he is da man! Smike!

mike

 

gghartman - rule of thumb is regular cable for connecting different sorts of devices like PC to switch (and we'll consider switch = hub for this particular part). Crossover cable to connect like devices like PC<->PC or hub<->hub.

Exception is that some of the better hubs/switches have a port (usually port 1) that can be toggled by a button or similar on the device to deal with either type of cable. But if it is toggled to cross a regular and you connect a crossover, you don't get connection.

 

Thanks Newt. Information given here has been very informative.

One other question. With the routers that are on the market now a days they come with switched ports which I am assuming is a combo device. So where do they come into play here ?

 

No not all routers come with switch/hub ports.

If you already have a Hub/switch then you don't need the ports that come with this type of router.

What it is, is a combination of a router and switch basically meant for home so you can get the ports to connect your computers and a router in 1 box instead a seperate switch and a router.

Even if you have a hub or switch now it does not cost but a few dollars more to get 4 ports on the router.

A good model for home is the Linksys befsr41. So this one box has routing and 4 ports for connecting 4 computers in a netwok.

Mike

 

Thank you.

 

"A good model for home is the Linksys befsr41. So this one box has routing and 4 ports for connecting 4 computers in a netwok. "

Or if you need more machines, you can connect a hub or switch to each port and load them with PCs.

The router/switch device Mike speaks of will handle up to 253 PCs for a local network. The limitation to 253 is for the router though. The switch part will handle lots more.

 

Newt

You are a very knowledgable person. I have read lots of other posts with info from you and I have to admit you have added to my knowledge a lot and I thank you.

 

More Knowledge

There is something called the OSI model. What it does is outline the standards of "networking" protocols and how they operate in the network environment to process packets sent across the network.

There are 7 layers
The Physical Layer which consists of the actual hardware, cables and hubs. Hubs are considered to be in the Physical Layer because the physical layer is considered to be the dumb layer all it does is provide the means of sending packets over a network, no inteligent routing or examination of the packet itself.

The Data Link layer which consists of slightly more inteligent devices. This Data Link layer is broken into two parts, the MAC then the LLC. The MAC(Media Access Control) is what switches operate on(in addition to Bridges, NIC's, and much more), they route and manage the MAC address of nodes on a network and can send the packets ackordingly. Such network configurations consist in the MAC such as the CSMA/CD or Token Ring for example. The next par of this layer is the LLC(Logical Link Control) what this does is provies error control and flow control of the Data Link Layer.

The Network layer is the start of the most known types of networking, TCP/IP is broken into two parts TCP and IP, the IP section of the TCP/IP operates on this layer, the Network Layer. Routers operate on this layer and can route appropriate ip addresses across the network. Everthing I have stated up until this point is considered Connectionless. An example of this is ICMP, when you ping a node, it will operate in this layer. IPX also works in this layer(IPX/SPX).

The Transport layer is the end of the most known types of networking, the TCP section of TCP/IP(Transmission Control Protocol) works in this layer. Such devices are a Gateway for example, and this is the start of the Connection Oriented section of the OSI model. SPX works in this layer as well as NetBIOS and NetBUI.

The Session layer is basically responsible for commiting and ending a session. Such things as an RPC call is where this operates. When you connect to a computer on a network your computer comits and RPC(Remote Procedure Call) which sends authentication information accross the network. NetBIOS also works in this layer along with Lanman

The Presentation layer is what is next, and what this does is prepares the information comited to the protocol encryption to work in the operating systems world. Prepares information to be "read" by the appropriate application.

The Application layer is what is last, the application layer can be considered to be the layer where the applications that work over the network can run. such as FTP, Telnet, DNS and so on.

Each thing on your computer goes from top to bottom Application level to Physical level and when it is received it goes from bottom to top and so on, and this is the transfer of information and how the devices work with the information and where the devices are effective in the network. Hope this is helpful, and lets you know where routers, switches, and hubs operate in the network environment.

Hubs ineffective in an envrionment to manage traffic, they don't know where things are, so they broadcast it to EVERYTHING on the hub.

Switches manage traffice more appropriatly, can manage traffic and keep a list of MAC addresses on each node, and will not broadcast the traffice to everyone. Bridges are not as intelligent but offer a way to stop a bottlekneck in a network.

Routers manage traffic more effectively and offer many different routing protocols. This is the ideal way to go to manage heavy sections of a network, or to offer as a gateway or so on.

Happy Learning, you can find information online and learn more, just search for the OSI model.

 

zollodav

Welcome to the best the Windows BBS! We need you here!

Beautiful explanation of the OSI model. I like it.

I know it but I could never explain it as well.

But even as well as you did I believe it is beyond what GG needed or wanted.

Had he got this first he probaby would have screamed, hit the power and not even shut down and never have come back. LoL!

But that is what this BBS is all about there are users that are farther along that will learn from this!

I will look forward with pleasure to more from you. Come back often.

Mike