Replacing Hard Drive help

Hi all -- Running 98FE

I think my hard drive is starting to fail. It moans and groans on start up and after windows load I can usually slap the side of the computer to shut it up. Everything runs ok and I don't have any problems but thought I'd replace the drive before errors do start.

I got a Maxtor 80gb. Didn't need that much but it was on sale, cheaper then the 20.

How hard is it to replace? I've never been inside the box except to replace a modem and I was so green I had to pay someone to do it. I did get a look inside though. Will I have to replace anything else also. Everything running fine and dandy at the moment but don't know if I need to replace anything else in addition to the hard drive for the hd to run proper.

Also FDISK question: I've only used fdisk to delete/create the entire hard drive as one partition. Do I create partitions one at a time or can I create them all at one time using fdisk and how?

Thank you.

 

If it is a constant noise, it could be a fan bearing making the noise. Does windows have any hesitation during the boot process?
You can create them all at once. First create the Primary and set it active. Note the question put to you about the size, the default is 100%. Choose the size you want.
Then create the Extended Partition, it will take the rest of the drive. You then create the Logical Partitions inside the Extended.
You must reboot after exiting fdisk. Then format the drives.

 

Hi Mark and thanks.

No, its not constant. Only during bootup. Sometimes it'll quit on its own after windows load and sometimes I have to pop it once for it to quit. It's not quite a grinding sound but close.

It doesn't hesitate, watching the screen I can see it jump somewhat like the horizontal control is not adjusted properly. It will do this quickly once or twice during the bootup then smoothe out normally.

This doesn't happen every bootup. It did for a while but after popping it a couple of times it quit doing it all the time. Now maybe twice a week. And never on a reboot. Only when I start up first time each day. The noise is coming right where the hd is located thats why I just assumed it to be the problem. It is an almost six year old cheapy.

When I create the extended partition will it automatically take the rest of the drive or will I have to tell it how much to take?

 

Will I need to make any changes once I replace the hd; bios maybe?

Any precautions? Being a first-timer at this I just want to know what to look for, what to be aware of, and any solutions to possible problems I may run into.

Thanks.

 

John

possible alternative sources for the noise - close to the drive bays - it would be a shame to blame the HDD if it's something else, and mechanical shock when the HDDs running is a really good way to knacker it! (when powered down the heads are parked in little safety notches)

as you say you haven't opened the box much: floppy drives tend to sit in little metal trays/adaptors, sometimes these mountings are only bolted on one side, the other fitting into a slot. Very easy to work loose. If it gets "buzzed" out of place as the floppy runs briefly on startup that might start the noise - and floppy drives themselves can sound dreadful! more to the point they vibrate quite a bit, well enough to start the bracket buzzing. A lot of rattly bits around this area.

thinking - HDD platters spin at several thousand RPM - would make any low pitched "moans and groans" unlikely surely? The 3 noisy HDDs I've had (was given 3 220MB drives, all same type) made high pitched squealing sounds - amazingly they didn't fail, I gave up on them because of the noise they made. Strewth! - they were loud.

Check for dust and hoover if necessary (!) while you have the box open... really!

just seen your other post about the BIOS - a lot depends upon your particular kit. Probably you will have to confirm the new HDD to the BIOS - most halfway recent BIOS will autodetect the drive, then you OK the changes.

Did the Maxtor come with a setup utilities disk pls.? - also, was old HDD bigger than 8GB?

best wishes, HJ

 

Hi Hugh,

Took the cover off and checked to see if anything was loose and found everything to be firmly in place. Nothing moved or came off in my hand.

Cleared out the dust. Lots of dust. Rechecked to see if anything was loose. Nil.

Maxtor does have a set up utilities disk and the original hd is only 6gb.

 

Hi John

shame you couldn't find an alternative source for the noises - oh well; very good you have the setup disk though.

are you going for a clean OS install onto the new HDD, and then pick your data off the old one (can have both connected for a while whilst you sort it out)...

...or do you want to copy the current contents of your 6GB onto the new drive lock stock and barrel?

==

My HDDs are Western Digital but much of the mechanics of fitting a new one will be the same. The setup disk I got was very useful - it even did the FDISKing for me - and had a utility on it to copy the whole contents of an older drive onto the new one. I'd guess yours will be much the same - the manufacturers want their devices to be easy to install (otherwise you'd go and buy someone elses! )

reason why I asked about the size of the old drive was that some older motherboards (mine!) cannot "see" the whole of HDDs greater than 8.4GB

but don't panic - as the setup disk you have will take care of that if necessary. Come to that bit later.

==

As standard, you can have two ribbon cables (primary and secondary); and on each ribbon you can have two devices (master and slave).

You set the devices to be master or slave with small jumper links - typically there are 3 positions. These are usually master, slave, and cable select. See if you can find the links, so you can set them correctly later on. If they are confusing post with what you find (I have a Maxtor with 5 options here!)

These devices can be HDDs or CDROMs. So there's no trouble in having your old HDD, new HDD and a CDROM all connected at the same time. The only restriction is that you have to boot off the master device on the primary cable.

(check out your current cabling - most ribbon cables have three connectors - motherboard at one end and then two connectors which plug into HDD or CDROM. At the moment you'll either have the 6GB and the CDROM on the same ribbon, as master and slave respectively. Or they might be on separate ribbons in which case whichever cable's got the 6GB on it is coming from the primary socket on the motherboard)

(check to see that you can find the two sockets on the motherboard - if they are marked HDD and CDROM then HDD = primary, and CDROM = secondary. Despite this marking each socket will support two devices)

==

ATA hard drives can transfer data faster than older non-ATA drives if your motherboard supports it. Using them this way you have to use the special 80way cable. With these cables you have to plug the master and the slave devices into the correct connectors, usually the slave has to go in the middle (I think) the connectors will be marked to identify which goes where. You only have to worry about this if you are using the ATA "go-faster" interface.

BUT ATA capable drives can all also be used "normally" with a normal 40 way cable. With a 40 way cable it doesn't matter which device plugs into which connector.

==

some information would be useful: like

what OS?
clean install or copy old drive to new?
part number for the new 80GB Maxtor?
is there going to be any hassle in mounting the two HDDs in the box at the same time?
anything else you reckon might matter!

I hope I'm not making this too basic - feel free to ignore any or all - trying to introduce the bits you'll need to identify etc... If you can find the jumper links could you pls. post what the options are? as sometimes they are a bit obscure (like using SP for single/primary => is actually the setting for master)

There's a way of copying the files over using Windows if all else fails - but better to use the setup disk if poss.

Take heart - it looks far harder than it really is!

Overview:
- set up jumpers, cables etc;
- introduce new HDD to your BIOS and get it recognised (BIOS can know about more than one sort of HDD, but if you swap them around you'll have to tell it to update again);
- run setup for new HDD; partition etc (preferably Maxtor disk, failing that FDISK);
- copy old drive to new.

may need to tweak this a little if your BIOS can't "see" the whole of the new HDD without help from the Maxtor setup disk.

Ideally should scandisk the surface of the new HDD early on - takes a while but it's safer that way.

gotta go for a while, will check back later...

best wishes, HJ.

 

Yes. When you first install the drive as the Primary Master, go into the BIOS first thing, and have it Auto Detect the drive. See if it matches what you have.

 

oops, sorry

that's one of the questions answered anyway - and I thought I'd just re-read through the thread. Doh!

best wishes, HJ.

 

Hugh -- I've decided to go with a clean install. I've got everything backed up and I've been searching around seeing how others use different partitions. I expect to post here at a later date for help with it.

Yeah, you hit my biggest fear about the motherboard. Mine is almost six years old and am not sure its capable. Any way to tell before I replace the hd? No real need to proceed any further until I can find out about motherboard support.

Now I gotta go and find out what I got.

I appreciate your being basic. I've never done any hardware changing but the best way to learn is by doing. I just want to learn what to do before I do.

Mark -- How do I get the bios to auto detect the drive? Sorry to be so "dopey" but when it comes to hardware I am.

 

Main Circuit Board: Everex Systems, Inc.
VA-503+ PCB 1.X

Bus Clock: 100 megahertz

BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. 4.51
PG 11/19/98


Searched Google and the best I could find was http://blymp.free.fr/materiel/benchs/k6-III-4x100.htm

Don't have the foggiest about the hd size. Any help?

 

something to watch out for

Hi John

the Maxtor install/setup floppy will have a will have a non-standard boot sector.

if you try to put it in your computer with antivirus software running it's highly possible that the the antivirus software will take one look at the boot sector and go "Yuck - unknown boot sector - might be malware" and promptly replace it. This will trash the setup floppy.

this can happen even if the write-protect notch is set to the "safe" position it can circumvent the write-protect tab. I didn't realise this could be done until it happened to me... mercifully I'd made a backup copy of the install floppy prior to this point.

If you want to make a backup of the floppy (a very good idea), do this:

- disable your antivirus software (I think we trust Maxtor that their disk is clean here), rebooting if necessary;
- scandisk a blank floppy using the "thorough" option to confirm that all the surface is good;
- use Windows Explorer:
- put the Maxtor install floppy into A:
- right-click on the icon for A: and choose "Copy Disk "
- replace with the blank floppy when it asks you halfway through the process
- re-enable your antivirus when done

(copying a floppy like this makes an exact sector-for-sector "mirror image" copy)

(good old File Manager can be used to do this as well)(Start>Run "winfile" - it's still there!)

==

more notes coming later - I wanted to get the warning about the antivirus and the floppy posted in case you were getting curious and wanted to see what it's got on it...

best wishes, HJ.

 

Hugh - Yes, thanks for the heads up. Copying the disk had left my mind. I've got my mind set on the motherboard right now and completely forgot. I remembered about the antivirus, although remembering it before installing the new hd is another issue. (Making note to self.) Thanks again.

 

Hi again

useful to note down before hooking up the new HDD: go into your BIOS and make a written record of the settings for your current 6GB drive - in case you have to put them back in manually (hopefully not!), also useful for comparison purposes

I'm not familiar with Award BIOS - sorry - but look for things like a "Type" number fro your current hard drive, and the figures for Cylinders, Heads, Sectors and Tracks if any are given. Also note down anything to do with "LBA "

(different sizes of HDD can have the same Type number - just to be confusing! but still a very good idea to record what it's set to at the moment)

autodetecting the drive will either happen automatically when you power up the computer the first time the new HDD is fitted - or it will stall and ask you if it should autodetect. In any case you will be asked to confirm the changes; if you answer "yes" the new BIOS settings get saved.

(part of POST involves the BIOS checking that what's connected matches up with what it thinks shoud be connected. So, the first time your BIOS "sees" the 80GB sitting on the ribbon cable it'll think "Oi - that's different ")

==

don't worry too much. Although of course one can never be 100% sure until the job is successfully completed...

your setup/install floppy will be able to take care of this sort of thing - that's its function! There are a variety of "kludges" to allow old computers to use new large HDDs. (the manufacturers are quite keen to sell their products to as many people as possible so they have this pretty well nailed)

in your case I think the kludge will be called EZ-BIOS which will get put in automatically during the HDD installation if it's needed.

Even if the motherboard can't see the whole of the drive to start with it will be able to see the first part - which is where EZ-BIOS (or the like) gets sneaked in.

==

a couple of things to check out before you do the changeover:

physically, inside the box, check to see whether there's room to mount the new drive without removing the old one. Most boxes have spare drive bays.

You'll be needing to run both simultaneously for a while...

Confirm that there's a spare power connector (orange, black, black, red - same as plugs into your existing 6GB. Usually there's a spare or two not plugged into anything)(orange may be yellow)

See whether there's an unused 40pin IDE connector on either ribbon cable

(power and IDE connectors will look just like the ones on your existing 6GB drive)

(in the unlucky scenario that you only have one ribbon cable in use and that its two connectors are "used up" with your existing HDD and the CDROM you will need another ribbon cable)

==

Have you found the jumper links on the new drive OK? You'll need to be find the jumpers on both your new drive and on the old 6GB when you "go for it "...

==

if you can post the entire part number of the new Maxtor 80GB it would be a great help - should be printed on the drive itself somewhere.

best wishes, HJ

 

Hi Hugh -- Just read your last post and wrote down all the things I need to check. I figured the motherboard concern wouldn't be confirmed until the new hd was added, just wanted confirmation or not.

Not sure about the extra power connector but I do remember seeing a couple of plugs just hanging, not connected to anything. From your description they may be unused plugs from the cables already there. I'll know more when I take a closer look.

As far as the jumpers go I haven't taken the hd out of the box yet but if I can't find it I'll let you know.

I'll get you the part number when I open the box. Not wanting to open it until I'm ready for it. Back later. Thanks.

 

Thought I'd post and let you know where I'm at: Same place as my last post. In-laws showed up shortly after my last post and that shot Wed all to heck, yesterday I was out of town longer than I thought I'd be so.............

Two quick questions: Is fdisk able to see 80 gig? I forgot the limit.

If, and this is a big IF, I am able to connect both hd, one set as primary the other secondary, how does fdisk tell them apart? I'd hate to be partitioning the second hd and fdisk is repartitioning the first.

And another: I'm wanting to partition the second hd in two partitions. I first create the active partition, then the extended. Is that as far as I need to go or do I need to make a logical partition the same size as the extended?

Thanks.

 

John

fdisk will see 80GB if the computer can see it - the computer will be able to see it after you run the Maxtor setup.

FDISK makes it quite clear which drive is which, they are numbered

BUT - the Maxtor setup does the fdisk thing for you - creates the partitions the size you want them and renders the primary partition bootable. (you will probably have to feed it a Windows startup disk made with your version of Windows - your current startup / emergency boot floppy in other words - to provide it with the system files)

==

Your major headache will be if you cannot get the three devices (new HDD, old HDD, CDROM drive) mounted in the computer at the same time - you would have to play "musical drive bays" which is a pain.

(actually your most likely holdup is that you wont have any spare mounting screws to secure the new HDD...)

==

inside the cardboard box, 99% certain the new HDD will be safe inside a sealed antistatic bag, probably with some silica gel to keep it dry. Typically, these antistatic bags are semi-translucent - you would be able to read the number which would allow us all to know what type of hard drive you have - without removing the HDD from its safety wrapper. And you should be able to see the jumper links.

You will also probably find an instruction manual which explains all this better than I can... and is well worth a read before you start in earnest.

*Look for a section describing alternative jumper settings to cover the eventuality that your BIOS will not autodetect the new HDD without a little help*

==

I could be more specific if only I knew what sort of HDD you are trying to fit! Please, please let us know the part number (isn't it even printed on the outside of the cardboard box maybe?)

==

re: the loose cables from the power supply: there are only two sorts of (4 wire) power cable connector - small ones for floppy drives, and large ones for HDDs and CDROM drives.

I'll not be able to get online a lot over the next day or two but will check back when I can to see how you are getting on.

best wishes, HJ.

 

Update -- Not good. Wasn't room for both hdds so I took out the old and replaced with the new. Setting the jumper was easy and installing was pretty easy on the open side. Getting to the screws on the motherboard side was somewhat touchy but I managed.

The manual that came with the new drive was useful. It pretty much gave step by step instructions on how to install.

But now there is a problem. After installing the new hdd and plugging the computer back to power, the computer starts up. gives about a one second beep followed by two half-second beeps and continues to load. Unfortunately the monitor doesn't work; it remains black. First thought was that the monitor went out but the light comes on. Reopened the computer and check the plugs to make sure all was inserted properly and tried again. No luck. Borrowed a working monitor, still same problem. Took out the new hdd and replaced with the old and still same problem. Shed any light as to what I may or may not have done? Thanks.

 

Just read this for the first time and thought I'd chime in. Your mainboard isn't an Everex, it's an FIC - I used to have an older Everex computer and recognized the VA - 503+ nomenclature. As you probably know, Everex is no more, but I got this off the FIC website relative to your MB.

"Excersise maximum care when upgrading BIOS!

BIOS chip is soldered on the board, therefore if BIOS is destroyed in the upgrade process, programming with EPROM programmer is hard - the Flash chip must be unsoldered, programmed and soldered back on the board.

FIC does not supply end users with Flash chips so unsuccessful BIOS upgrade may be the end of the board's life cycle.
Please make sure to back up your current BIOS and verify the new BIOS file version.

In case of trouble, check boot block option for BIOS recovery. "

Now to what might be your problem - set your boot order to A, CDRom, C or Hdd0 (or Hdd1 if no Hdd0 option). Could also be A, C, whatever - but you have to have the floppy drive as your first boot device to do a setup or installation. Personally, I try to avoid things like those Maxtor tools and EZBios like the plague, however, you may have no other choice. I'd (again personal preference) try a Windows ME boot disk that will let you FDISK and Format an 80 Gig drive, however, you have gotten good guidance from others to this point - so stay the course with what you are currently trying.

Good Luck

 

Hi

oh dear this doesn't sound good

The beep codes will decode to identify what the bios reckons is the primary cause of the trouble, something's stopping POST from completing.

I'll have a shot at looking up the beep codes - or if we are even a bit lucky some kind BBS person will know what two beeps means for your bios...

As you've put the old HDD back in again without improvement, some things to check:

- if video card plugs in, has it come slightly loose?

- unintentional short somewhere. Loose metallic threaded fastener escaped under motherboard (might have always been there but changing the HDD allowed it to move to a place which matters)

- look very carefully at where the other dangling power connectors have ended up; make sure they aren't touching anything. (One HDD out, another in so same number of dangling PSU leads you had before)

Nothing at all on the monitor is making me think PSU trouble - not necessarily blown up in its own right, something might be shorting one of the outputs. Have you (or a friend) got a voltmeter you can run up and down the power connector to motherboard just to check none of the rails is totally missing?

- dodgy plug/socket contact somewhere; something got wiggled out of place while you were moving things around. This could be anything like a cable connector slightly come adrift, or it could be a socketed IC come loose, or it could be a plugin card a tiny bit adrift. Keyboard connector not plugged in will stop most PCs boot dead its tracks - but not with black screen. Most disconnects wouldn't stop the POST altogether. Similarly RAM module a bit out of place - you would get some kind of error message.

- worst possibility is static damage. Not likely though, there's a lot of other things to check which are less final.

look carefully and expect the unexpected. Don't give up yet! The problem looks really heavy - but the corollary of this is that the more gross the trouble, the less it can hide. A good chance this is just a simple disconnect somewhere - just somewhere where you
haven't looked yet.

best wishes, HJ.