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Repair XP on dual boot system with Vista Ultimate

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by PeteC, 2007/03/05.

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  1. 2007/03/05
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    Background .....

    I last made a repair install of XP Pro when I changed the mobo and processor last April. Since then I have beta tested various builds of Vista in a dual boot situation using Vista Boot Pro as the boot manager and now have installed, courtesy of MS (my 'reward' for finding a bug) a copy of Vista Ultimate which I am really unable to use as there are still no modem drivers available for my ISP supplied modem.

    I want to Repair my install of XP Pro rather than start over as I know from past experience that a clean install is 3 - 4 days solid work and I do not have the time at present.

    I have run into difficulties in that the install CD does not find a previous installation of Windows - with or without the Vista bootloader loaded.

    I have a vague recollection of a warning that using the boot manager would remove the ability to repair/upgrade XP, but I cannot now find that reference.

    Does anybody have any solutions? I am sure that the computer would benefit from a clean install as a few strange quirks have developed and it is slow for a dual processor/2 Gb RAM setup - much slower than it was when built, but I would prefer to Repair for now.
     
    PeteC,
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  2. 2007/03/05
    charlesvar

    charlesvar Inactive Alumni

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    Hi Pete,

    Doesn't Vista Boot Pro restore the original XP boot records?

    I'm dual booting Vista with MCE and Boot pro as of now is installed on MCE, not Vista. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.

    I might well have the same problem if I tried a repair myself which I can't try because I haven't recieved the MCE OS disc yet - I didn't get it with the Laptop.

    Some more background: I haven't recieved the Vista final yet either, so I'm up in the air here with this.

    Regards - Charles
     
    charlesvar,
    #2


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  4. 2007/03/06
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    Hi Charles

    Yes, it does so I am a little confused :)

    I have this strong recollection though that something I loaded a while ago gave the warning about being unable to repair or upgrade XP and it was either BootPro or Vista itself. Too much has been going on in the past few months with moving house and losing the broadband that my brain is somewhat rusty in the PC department :)
     
    PeteC,
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  5. 2007/03/06
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    Hi Pete!

    Since it seems that Vista has altered the boot code you may want to try using XXCLONE which is a very nice freebie that can do that easily. I've used it extensively and find it to be of great value.
     
    surferdude2,
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  6. 2007/03/06
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    Thanks - I need to read through that carefully as I am not sure that it what I want. There is no problem changing the bootloader using VistaBootPro and I can alternate between just XP or the usual OS menu to boot into XP or Vista.

    Both systems boot on request, but the XP CD sees no Windows OS. I suspect Vista is the culprit maybe because it was loaded after XP??
     
    PeteC,
    #5
  7. 2007/03/06
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    I understand Pete. I wouldn't have offered it blindly unless I felt that you would be capable of deciding if it fit your present needs.

    I'm not sure how Vista would hide XP from the RC so that would be interesting to learn. I was just considering that if Vista took over the bootloder code that follows the MBR (IPL) or the code on the first sector of the boot drive, in case multi disks are involved (as they are for you), that might be why the XP install isn't detected.

    That's all conjecture so proceed with caution.

    BTW, there is a forum for XXCLONE that the creator attends. It might pay to ask some ?? there.

    Good luck.
     
    surferdude2,
    #6
  8. 2007/06/07
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    As time passes the desire to repair my existing install of XP increases due to several niggling problems and the computer is just not running 'right' considering it has a top class mobo (Asus A8N-SLI Premium), a dual core processor (AMD 64 x2 4200+) and 2 Gb RAM. I guess it never has in my mind :)

    Since last posting I have run fixboot and fixmbr to no effect and formatted the Vista partition, yet the install CD still sees no Windows OS.

    I don't really want to format - that's 1 week's work full time minimum to get everything loaded and tweaked with all the hassle of umpteen dozen activations and reg. nos, etc.

    My current idea ....

    Update my ASR backup and then run ASR which will format the disk and reload everything as it was, hopefully without inheriting the quirks that the current install possesses. I have Acronis images of the drive as a fall back if all goes pear shaped, but I rather think that the problem lies in the MBR.

    What do you guys think?

    As a side note - does the number of partitions have a significant effect on performance? I currently have 17 spread over 2x SATA and 1x PATA drives - worked fine on the previous mobo - with the same install of XP - I made the usual repair install when changing mobos April 2006.
     
    PeteC,
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  9. 2007/06/07
    noahdfear

    noahdfear Inactive

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    Hi Pete,

    Sounds as though you are no longer running Vista. If that's the case, have you removed Vista? Pretty good guide here. I think once Vista is gone, along with it's bootloader files, the XP cd should see the XP installation.

    Sidenote FYI ....... on hard disk 1 (primary boot disk), I had 98 on C:, XP Pro on E:, Vista on G: and on hard disk 2 XP Pro on first partition (seen as D: when booting from E: ). Removed the Vista installation folders and boot.ini entries some time ago, but Vista bootloader remained. While playing with Partition Magic a while back I inadvertantly wiped (formatted) the contents of the hard disk 1 C: partition. Hard disk 2 installation being separate (has it's own boot.ini), I was able to alter the BIOS boot option and boot to it, when I then placed a boot.ini file ONLY on the hard disk 1 C: partition. I am again using hard disk 1 as the primary boot disk ...... Vista bootloader is gone (resided on C: with 98 installation) and XP has since written a few system files to C: (to keep my boot.ini file company I guess ;) ) While I cannot confirm whether or not XP cd setup was able to see the XP installations while Vista and/or it's bootloader were still loaded, I can confirm that setup see's them now.
     
    noahdfear,
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  10. 2007/06/08
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    Hi Dave
    If only :) - I think the problem lies with the bootloader files which I cannot delete as per the guide you posted and I am not inclined at this stage to use brute force. I restored the original boot.ini using Vista BootPro some time ago and since then have revived my efforts to clear out the system. In this thread ....

    http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?p=349411#post349411

    the problem was pursued and I have written - I think, 0's to the MBRR and EMBR using mbrwork, all to no avail. The XP install CD still does not see the existing install of XP which I really want to repair in the hope of eliminating a few problems which defy resolution by other means.

    I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that a format and clean install is inevitable and if that turns out to be the case I shall probably replace the hard drive as a precaution and keep the existing for storage - it already has 8 storage partitions on it and the case will accomodate at least 4 hard drives - 3 installed at present. The last clean install I made on this drive was several years ago - when I changed mobos, etc I made the customary repair install.
     
    PeteC,
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  11. 2007/06/08
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    OK - I took a deep breathe and tried brute force (Killbox) to delete bootmgr from C:, but it failed to delete on reboot. Anything stronger that you can suggest?
     
    PeteC,
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  12. 2007/06/08
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    Pete, I realize I'm repeating myself, but my suggestion would be to give XXCLONE a shot at it.

    Run the program and place the drive with the Vista bootloader problem in both the Source and the Target selection window. Then click the "Cool Tools" tab and then click the "Make bootable" button. Acknowledge the warning and you should be presented with a screen that has three selections, "Write MBR" - "Write boot Sector" - "Write Boot.ini ". Tag all three of those boxes and click the Start button. It's anti-climactic and you won't know if it worked until you check by using your previous criteria.

    I think this will be a safe procedure so long as you make certain you have the right drive selected in the two fields.

    If it hoses the drive, I know you have adequate images for deployment and restoration so I'm not all that concerned about igniting any international conflict. :D
     
    surferdude2,
    #11
  13. 2007/06/08
    noahdfear

    noahdfear Inactive

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    As an alternative to sd2's suggestion, and another suggestion for removing the bootmgr ..... BartPE. And I would take the safe route of creating a new folder, then moving those files rather than deleting. ;)
     
    noahdfear,
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  14. 2007/06/08
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    But then Dave, you're thinking files AND I'm thinking the boot sector code (Bart PE won't see that) so this is more or less more than less. :)

    Nothing's simple with these one-eyed monsters.
     
    surferdude2,
    #13
  15. 2007/06/09
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    Guys

    I think we are fast approaching the end of the road :)

    I managed to delete the Boot folder and bootmgr referenced in Dave's URL by taking Ownership from a hidden/Vista account with a long numeric string as the title. Was somewhat surprised that I was able to do so. Install CD still did not recognise a Windows installation.

    Re-ran mbrworks - 100% confident that I did it correctly this time and set the partition active. Install CD still did not recognise a Windows installation.

    Interesting side effect though (would not have been interesting without backup :)) - the IDE drive was completely empty - all partitions and data - gone. Problem with the partition table I guess though I made no changes to that drive in mbrworks - that I know of. FYI 2x SATA + EIDE drives installed, Windows on SATA.

    Final thought - fixboot. Booted to Recovery Console which sees the Windows installation on D: drive :confused: :confused: That might explain why the install CD fails to see an installation as no doubt it looks only for an installation on C:, but WE, Disk Management and PM all see Windows on C: :confused:

    So I'm fresh out of ideas and heading for a format and clean install next week .... unless you have any further thoughts :)

    System is still up and running despite living on the edge for the past hour or so :D
     
    PeteC,
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  16. 2007/06/09
    noahdfear

    noahdfear Inactive

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    I think that RC may possibly see the installation's drive letter differently than WE based on the boot order set in the BIOS.

    Using my system as an example, I have harddisk 1 (seen as harddisk 0 in the BIOS, and set as second boot) with 98 (which is gone now) on partition 1, XP Pro on partition 2, Vista (also gone now) on partition 3, and 5 more partitions for storage. This XP install is my primary working installation, where WE sees these partitions as C: E: F: G: H: I: L: M: (J and K are cd/dvd).

    Harddisk 2 (seen as harddisk 1 in BIOS and set as third boot) has XP and is seen as D: in WE while booted to harddisk 1 installation. If I boot directly to the harddisk 2 install, it is seen as drive letter C: in WE. 98 becomes D:, XP Pro is E:, Vista is F:, etc.

    I haven't checked yet to see if changing BIOS boot order on the drives will affect what RC sees, but I'm thinking that if WE sees them differently based on which one is the active boot, then it would also apply to RC and BIOS.

    I don't know what drives/partitions you had installations on, but what about unhooking all but the one with the active installation and see what setup finds?
     
    noahdfear,
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  17. 2007/06/10
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    The boot order (CD-ROM > Floppy > HD) has not been changed for years and there is only one active partition and only one OS installed. In the past the computer quad booted to XP/XP64/Win98/Vista (beta), but those days are long gone and in the past few days I have used mbrworks to write 0's to the MBR and EMBR.

    I will try unhooking the other drives and running setup again, but neither of the other two drives have had an OS installed on them.

    The other interesting point, if I read the mbrwork partition table correctly, is that there is no partition data shown for anything other than the first partition. May be because that is the only active partition and that is all mbrworks sees.

    Anyway thanks again for your thoughts on this - I think it is a mystery too far and Vista has a lot to answer for :)
     
    PeteC,
    #16
  18. 2007/06/10
    McTavish

    McTavish Inactive

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    Hi Pete, I’m still not fully organised myself yet after a house move not long after yours.

    Vista won’t stop a repair install of XP and neither should VistaBootPro. The warning you saw somewhere was probably just that an XP repair install would remove the Vista bootloader and so the dual boot option. A modified MBR, PBR and boot.ini won’t stop a repair install, as it’s designed to fix such things. Your problem it almost certainly hard drive configuration and the XP CD being unable to find the correct drive to work on.

    Remove all other hard drives and any USB storage devices "“ even pen drives "“ and then try again, making sure you load your SATA/RAID drivers during booting off the XP CD. If that still fails then you might have to alter your BIOS to make the SATA drive the first boot hard drive.

    Just for information, VistaBootPro is not a bootmanager or bootloader or anything like that. It is merely a GUI for bcdedit.exe to prevent having to use the command line. Bcdedit is Microsoft’s tool for modifying the BCD store, so you were only ever using Vista’s own bootmanager.
     
    Last edited: 2007/06/10
    McTavish,
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  19. 2007/06/10
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    Here's the part that still has me baffled. When you ram mbrwork you reported the following:

    The f designation would indicate that you are dealing with an Extended Partition but PM 8 reports it as being a Primary Partition. Perhaps you are not looking at the same partition since these two tools should be in agreement as to the Partition Type. The only other explanation would be that Vista has modified the system somehow so that in a Windows environment the Partition type is altered. :confused: I can't imagine how that would be pulled off.

    If XP is indeed installed on what is being recognized as an Extended partition, it will not normally boot unless a Primary partition is present and has been initialized for XP and marked Active. The necessary XP bootloader files must reside on that Primary partition.

    I tend to agree with McTavish in that you may be mistaking which drive you are dealing with. His suggestion of disconnecting them all except the one you need to work on makes good sense.
     
    surferdude2,
    #18
  20. 2007/06/10
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff Thread Starter

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    The final chapter on this ......

    The computer is trashed :(

    I disconnected the other 2 drives following Dave's suggestion and ran Recovery Console again - this time it recognised that Windows was on C:\. Ran a fixboot and fixmbr (for good luck) and booted again from the install CD and for the first time it saw the Windows installation and offered the repair option. Great, I thought, been trying to get there for months :)

    The repair went totally pear shaped - kept on asking for files on CD's I do not possess and if I had the files they were on a drive which was not connected. Eventually the whole thing seized up at installing the network.

    Next move was to restore an Acronis image - never done that before and that was a disaster too. Eventually got it running with the message 7 hours remaining. What happened to the 'restore in 10 mins' that one sees in other posts? So much for Acronis - dumped out of that, especially as all the drive letters had changed and it was trying to restore the image of C:\ to H:\ - no good at all.

    Then tried my ASR backup knowing that it would not work as the partition info had inevitably changed. It didn't, although the reason given was that the partition wasn't large enough - clearly looking at the wrong partition - no surprise there.

    So the desktop is trashed and I have lost faith in the drive which I still believe to be contaminated by Vista and in Acronis. A new drive will hopefully be delivered Monday and then I face 7 - 10 days of feeding CD's into it, tweaking and tuning until it is back to square 1 and by that I mean not as it was, but as it should be without the problems I was experiencing.

    Basically not a happy bunny having struggled for 3 days solid now to resolve the inability to repair the installation. I guess a clean install was probably a couple of years overdue and with hindsight would have been the quickest route, but we all love a challenge, don't we :D

    Footnote

    surferdude2 your post came in as I was typing the above - XP was installed on the only primary partition on the drive - of that there is absolutely no doubt :)
     
    PeteC,
    #19
  21. 2007/06/10
    surferdude2

    surferdude2 Inactive

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    That's very disappointing. I have never had Acronis fail to restore a Partition for me. You may yet get it to work but as you said, you had problems before so restoring wouldn't fix any of those.

    Perhaps that HD had some obscure problem and the new one will be the answer. While waiting for the replacement, run the diagnostics on it just for kicks.

    Good luck with the clean install.
     
    surferdude2,
    #20
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