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Resolved RAM or motherboard problem?

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Christer, 2010/10/20.

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  1. 2010/10/20
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I've assembled a new BOAC (see my system specs) and started by installing Windows XP Professional in order to do all the partitioning and formating from within that OS (a prerequisite for Ghost 2003 to work with Windows 7).

    Next, I tried to install Windows 7 Professional. It stalled while expanding files with an error message that I've forgotten but RAM problems were indicated. I went Google on it and found a possible solution: When the installer has finished rolling back the installation, don't restart the computer but try to reinitiate the installation. It had worked for someone else.

    I made a second attempt which went flawlessly. I didn't need to use the "workaround ". However, the possibility of RAM problems triggered my curiosity. I downloaded Memtest86+ v4.10, created the floppy and ran a test ... :mad: ... well, I've ran dozens of tests. There are four RAM slots, 1, 2, 3 and 4. There are two RAM modules, A and B.

    The combinations 1A+2B and 1B+2A produce memory errors when the computer is cold (room temperature ~20 degrees centigrade) but not always. Reseating the modules "fixes" the problem but only temporarily. It's very "random ".

    The combinations 3A+4B and 3B+4A have never produced any errors.

    The Windows 7 memory diagnostic tool (which shuts down the computer, runs the test and restarts again when done) has never reported any errors in any slot/module combination.

    Now to the question: Can Memtest86+ v4.10 be trusted? It always reports failures in "Test #5" with the "Err-bits" as "08000000" in the range above 4 GB. It tests up to 4.75 GB (4864 MB) but I only have 4 GB installed and I'm not beginning to try to understand why that is.

    If it can be trusted, the behaviour indicates problems with the motherboard and not the RAM, right?

    Yesterday, I even had blue screens, among others:

    Today, Memtest86+ v4.10 has been running for hours without a trace of problems.

    The motherboard revision is 2.0 and there is an update of the BIOS from F1 to F2 but I've decided to not update the BIOS until there's nothing left to do but call the shop.

    Anyone who has a clue?
     
    Christer,
    #1
  2. 2010/10/20
    markmadras

    markmadras Banned

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    Don't know if this will help, but after a lot of searching for the STOP error you received it is suggested in most cases that this relates to a driver incompatability problem. Perhaps this has something to do with the Windows 7 install---are all your drivers windows 7 compatable?

    As your experience is probably far higher than mine you may have already thought of this:eek:.
     
    markmadras,
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  4. 2010/10/20
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I too went google on the STOP error message and came to the same conclusion > probably a driver issue. I have not installed any drivers other than the ones installed by Windows 7 and the only one "missing" (in device manager) is the USB3 driver but the system needs specific drivers such as ATI video driver (no 1920x1080 resolution with the Windows 7 driver).

    I'm more concerned with the RAM issue (if there is one) but thought that there might be a connection with the STOP error.
     
    Christer,
    #3
  5. 2010/10/20
    markmadras

    markmadras Banned

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    I wish I could provide an answer, although I have read in many places that the Memtest86+ is about as good as they get. Perhaps someone here with a lot more experience can give you some more advise.
     
    markmadras,
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  6. 2010/10/20
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I keep my fingers crossed but any input is welcome as long as it triggers some thought.

    There are two revisions of the motherboard, 2.0 and 2.1. The difference, as I understand it, is memory performance. Limitations with revision 2.0 (which I have) is that overclocking the RAM to "the limit" is only possible with two modules in slots 3 + 4. (No such limitation with revision 2.1.) I'm not overclocking but am running SPD at 1333 MHz and 9-9-9-24. I think that there might be a connection since I have no problems in slots 3 + 4, only in slots 1 + 2. The question is if the change in revision came with the updated BIOS from F1 to F2? Is the BIOS version the only difference? If so, updating the BIOS, which I have not yet done, might be the solution. It's questionable since Gigabyte claim that the F2 BIOS only updates the "compatible processor list ".

    Well, I could use slots 3 + 4 and be happy but what happens the day I want to install two more modules because I need 8 GB? I want it to work "as advertised" when new because in a year or two, the situation won't get easier with an activated Windows 7 OEM and possibly a new motherboard. You see what I'm getting at, don't you?
     
    Christer,
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  7. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    This morning it started producing errors with the modules in the 1A+2B position, the same position as yesterday when it ran all day without a trace of problems and they were untouched by human hands. Now I've also seen failures in "Test #6" and "Test #7 ". The failures scroll down and maybe there have been failures in those tests before but I've missed them.
     
    Christer,
    #6
  8. 2010/10/21
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    Check the forum form Gigabyte (assuming they have one) for your memory combination.

    See if you need to change timings and/or voltage to get it stable.
     
    Arie,
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  9. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I've visited the Corsair forums and they seem to have "increase the voltage" as the standard solution to many problems. I'll head over to Gigabyte and see what I find.

    The "funny" thing is that I chose these memory modules, running at standard timings and voltages (9-9-9-24 and 1.50 V) ... :rolleyes: ... rather than the CMD8GX3M4A1333C7 running at 7-7-7-20 and 1.65 V. The reason was to avoid exactly what I'm experiencing ... :mad: ... !
     
    Christer,
    #8
  10. 2010/10/21
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    A quick read indicates that you may have already discovered what Gigabyte might have corrected with Rev 2.1
    Arie's suggestion to increase DIMM voltage is a good one but you may be fighting an uphill battle if there's an inherent flaw in the board design/engineering as it relates to slots 1 & 2. Most users would slap those modules in 3 & 4 and be done with it, but knowing your appetite for knowledge and understanding, I will look forward to your findings.

    ;)
     
    Rockster2U,
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  11. 2010/10/21
    Arie

    Arie Administrator Administrator Staff

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    If I want to run my memory @ full speed I also have to slightly increase the voltage. Doesn't bother me.
     
    Arie,
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  12. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Yes, most users would take the easy route but I look ahead. If I some day should want to use another pair of RAM modules, making it 8 GB, at that time the warranty may be expired and even if not, with a new motherboard I would have problems with the activation of my OEM Windows 7 Professional, I think. W7 is still not activated and in a week I'll have to reformat and reinstall to continue this "hunt ".

    As I reported in an earlier post, this moring Memtest86+ produced errors. The computer was started cold (~20 degrees centigrade). After three hours, I escaped the test, let the computer restart and shut it down. I also killed the mainswitch on the power supply. I waited for a few minutes, restarted the computer and Memtest86+. So far no errors. It clearly is temperature dependent.
     
    Christer,
    #11
  13. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    What do you mean by "@ full speed "? Maybe I've been unclear but I run the memory modules att "auto" or standard settings. No overclocking whatsoever.
     
    Christer,
    #12
  14. 2010/10/21
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    I have found Memtest86+ is usually right when it finds errors. But it sometimes reports no problems when there are some. That said, I have seen the same with other testers. Sadly, some RAM tests fine, but still refuses to work when installed. And some tests fine, but refuses to work when install with other modules.

    You said you have not updated the BIOS yet. I am not one to update a BIOS just because a new update is out there - with one exception - when building a new computer. If me, I would reset the BIOS, install one stick, then update the BIOS. If you can get it to work with one stick fine without resetting, then skip that part. And I would use the Auto settings now and don't mess with timings at all. If you can't get it to work on Auto, something needs to be RMA'd - either the RAM or the motherboard.
     
    Bill,
    #13
  15. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Bill,

    Is there a specific reason to install one stick only while updating the BIOS?

    I believed that resetting the BIOS (load fail safe or what it says) was essential for redetecting all hardware. Maybe not needed then.

    That's my position too. I have not installed anything "above standard ", nothing overclocked and I think it should work "out of the box ".

    [SpeculatingModeOn] Since the modules seem to work in slots 3 and 4, in slots 1 and 2 it is temperature dependent (not warm but cold), I think it leans towards the motherboard. [SpeculatingModeOff]
     
    Christer,
    #14
  16. 2010/10/21
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    Not really, except that you are having RAM problems and by using only one stick, you minimize conflicts, and therefore a potential crash. It is rare for a BIOS update to hose a motherboard, but if there is one time it could happen, it is with a system crash while the BIOS module is being flashed with the new firmware.
    Resetting just ensures all timings are back at the defaults - again, to minimize chance of conflicts. If you have reset, no need to do it again.

    Just to make sure, like all Gigabyte boards (that I've used, and they are my preferred board), when using just 2 sticks, you should be installing them in Slots 1 and 3, or Slots 2 and 4, as shown on page 16 of your manual.
     
    Bill,
    #15
  17. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Now, I'm confused. I want to run dual channel:

    Channel 0: DDR3_1, DDR3_3
    Channel 1: DDR3_2, DDR3_4

    The Dual Channel Memory Configurations Table indicates that for dual channel, the modules should go in:

    DDR3_1 and DDR3_2 or DDR3_3 and DDR3_4 or all four slots.

    ... :confused: ... :eek: ...

    To make sure that we're reading the same manual:

    User's Manual
     
    Christer,
    #16
  18. 2010/10/21
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    Well, now I am confused. Even though your manual is in French, the configuration table on page 16 of your manual is clearly different than the same table on the same page in this manual which clearly shows you should be using 1 and 3. ??? I don't know what to say, but that I have only seen Gigabyte use 1 and 3 (and 2 and 4) for dual channel pairs.
     
    Bill,
    #17
  19. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I was too quick ... :eek: ... sorry about the french ... :p ... I have corrected the link.

    It's not the same manual. I linked to the one for revision 2.0 and you linked to the one for revison 2.1. That would mean that the board had a serious physical redesign between revisions.
     
    Christer,
    #18
  20. 2010/10/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    It's very confusing. What they say regarding which slots "belong" to which channel fits with the table in the manual for revision 2.0.
     
    Christer,
    #19
  21. 2010/10/21
    Bill

    Bill SuperGeek WindowsBBS Team Member

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    Oops. I saw earlier where you said 2.0 too. My mistake. Sorry about that. But did you just buy this board? It seems odd if brand new, it would still be the older revision, unless it sat on the shelf for a bit.

    And I just ran a comparison of the two boards and the only "published" difference is 2.1 supports DDR3 1866(OC) modules.

    In any case, your slots should be color coded as blue and white, so you would put your first pair in the blues, and the 2nd pair of RAM in the white.
     
    Bill,
    #20
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