OS Partition too small

The last time I did a clean install, I cut my C drive to 8 Gigs, because I had been allocating 10 G, and always had 50% of the C drive free. XP Pro needs at least 25% of the OS partition to be free to do its best, and to avoid excessive file fragmentation. I wound up with 7.81 Gigs- nothing on C but Windows and updates 2.5 G, less than 1 G of Program files, and less than 2 G of Norton IS 2003, and the mess I made because I uninstalled Norton Utilities by clicking on their uninstall promps instead of the directions here. There is about 1 G of garbage left from the Norton Protected Recycle Bin that I cannot get out. I have tried everything (admin, safe mode, forcing) except those directions, (which are a mite daunting, even for me!) and it seems to me that it might be easier to reinstall NU and then try to shut it down like those directions indicate, because right now all the targeted folders and files are light in color (they don't exist and XP cannot find a valid path to them) and will not respond to any conventional forms of eradication.

But this is why I'm posting this in the XP forum and not Security or Other- I need space on my C drive! I can account for about 5 G on this 7.8 Gig partition. I keep gettig warnings that free disk space is too low, at 16%. Almost 1 G is tied up in useless "undeletable" Norton Utilities stuff, so it would solve my problem to get rid of it.

Why I put both Norton programs on C? They run fine from D. I've run them on D for years. I remember why I let them go to the OS partition in the first place. Whenever I reformatted the C drive in the past, Norton would now and then get goofy on D, so I figured if I had to wipe C, I wanted to install Norton again anyway. Sigh.


So here is my question- What would you do?

A. Follow the Symantec directions above to try to remove NU
B. Wipe the OS partition and put E trust on
C. Learn to live with the "not enough free space errors" because it doesn't seem to be affecting anything
D. Reinstall NU before I follow the directions (hmmm..wonder if I have enough free space?
E. Relax and just wait for the inevitable crash
F. Gotta better idea?

Since 50% of my second partition is free space, I am wondering why I didn't just give C it's usual 10 Gigs??? What do I care about 2 crummy Gigs?

Admin- this is why it's an XP question
Does it really matter if I run indefintely with less than the 25% of the free space on C that XP wants? Has anyone done this and had problems with it? Other than these errors, there doesn't seem to be any performance issues.

TIA
Johanna

 

I ran for months and months with only 3% to 7% free space without any problems before installing a new larger drive. If you are ready to clear out Norton, I'd say do it right and go for a clean sweep. Just my opinion.

 

You can probably free up a bunch of room by moving all but a smidgen of your pagefile to another drive if it lives on the system drive now.

If you don't use hibernate or standby, you can get some more by turning those off.

 

The instructions at Symantec don't really look difficult though it would take a bit of time. The question is, what's more time consuming, a format or the manual uninstall process. I suspect the format will eat up more of your time. If it were me (assuming the system is currently in good shape otherwise) I'd follow the instructions at Symantec. Think about this (I don't know the answer). If you had Norton Protected Recycled Bin enabled for all the drives and don't remove it; will there be some sort of remnents of it left on them even after a format of the c: drive? According to the instructions you have to remove the protection manually from each of the drives. This makes me wonder. I'm guessing from the instructions that it's all in the registry and the new registry created with a new windows install would take care of it but...... Maybe somebody else knows. If things don't work as planned you can always format later. Additional time, I know, but if it works you could save a lot of trouble with having to set windows up the way you want it again, installing programs etc. Just my two cents worth.

10 gigs for windows? I must be either doing something right or wrong. Don't know which. I've got XP Pro installed on 4 gig drive. It's been there for a year now. If memory serves me correctly the windows installation used a bit under 2 gigs of space. The drive currently has 2.5 gigs of space used and 1.5 free. It'll probably catch up with me in the end but it'll be a while. I use Partition Magic so it really isn't to big a problem for me if it does. I've moved a lot of things off the drive though (pagefile, mail files, My Documents etc. ) so maybe that's part of the reason why I've gotten by this way. I know everything I see about this seems to recommend more but so far it's worked for me.

 

Newt
Didn't think about moving the pagefile.
Zander
I probably would have cut it from 10 to 6, but I knew I was going to put Norton on there. No, the removal directions for NU aren't hard, just a PITA.
Dave
The few apps and programs on C would fit on a cd, and in fact, I have one. It wouldn't take long to restore my c drive, because I planned it that way. I think it would be less bother to wipe it and reinstall, than to try to untangle Norton.

All my docs, music, pics, OE dbx files, major software- Office, Works, Adobe Acrobat, Open Office, music programs, Accounting programs, etc... live on D. It's all backed up, and I've never lost my second partition by accident. I'm thinking it's time to house clean....

I notice no one had a better way to get rid of Norton Utilities... Fair warning, if you have it, and you dump it, do not follow the instructions from within the program. What a mess!

Johanna

 

Johanna: I have been trying to get a clean uninstall of Norton System Works, including AV and utilities from my son's machine for two weeks, followed all of Norton's (Symantic) instructions to the letter, and can't get a new install that works.

He uses MSN Messenger and constantly gets popup error "can't scan MSN Messenger downloads for virus" The popup contains a link to Symantic's site that says it results from failed upgrade install, even though 2003 was the only version ever installed.

No matter what I have done, spent probably 8-10 hours uninstalling and reinstalling, can not get rid of error message. IMHO, wiping the drive is probably the only way. Which I am about to do on his machine.

Following their instructions is not all that difficult, which I have done several times, the only problem is that for that machine, it does not work. Although I like and use Norton Utilities when it works, if the program fails, you are in a world of trouble.

Martin

 

TonyT
That's why I dumped NU- it was redundant. On my older systems, there were features I liked, Speed Disk and Win Doctor in particular. But they are not needed with XP.

The problem is the integration of NU and NIS when installed together. NIS must be given free rein to spider deep into the registry, and then NU comes along and latches on to the existing Symantec folders.

Christer
NIS and NU (including the protected recycle bin) is almost 2Gig together. Hard to tell what's what, with the integrated folders.

Martin
Yep, I agree. Wiping and starting over is easier than cleaning up after a failed uninstall, IMO. But since Dave said he ran for months with even less free disk space, I'm not in a big hurry to do anything. I have a couple of sick comps on the floor right now that have impatient owners, and there is nothing urgent about this problem.

But Norton will not be returning. I have depended on it and trusted it for a long time, but the upgrade to NIS 2004 I just did for my mom convinced me that there has to be a better solution. I know several people who are very pleased with eTrust, and I am going to try it out for myself.

Johanna

 

Luna Lass ...

Put your C: partition on a SlimFast diet.

First, as Newt suggests, move your pagefile to your D: partition. Actually, I'm not sure you even NEED a pagefile ... I ran my system for months without one, just to see if I could, and encountered no problems.

Second, there's a lot of stuff in C:\Windows and its subfolders that's nonessential, and can be either deleted or moved to your D: partition ...

• Windows updates Uninstall folders, once you're satisfied that the update is working properly. Or, move them to D:.
  
  Most of us use only a few mouse pointers, so nearly everything in the Cursors folder can be eliminated. Same with the Media folder. In Web\Wallpaper, get rid of those you don't use. Same with most .bmp, .scr, and .log files in the Windows folder.
  
  Slim down your Fonts folder by keeping most of your fonts in a separate folder on D: and using a font management program to load them when necessary.
  
  You COULD, although I don't recommend it, set the size of the Recycle Bin on C: to 0%.

The C: partition on my laptop is 4GB in size, with 2.4GB in use, and the hibernation file and system restore folder represent nearly a GB of that. I have as little on C: as possible ... basically, just the Docs & Settings and Windows folders, as well as the things normally hidden, like the System Volume Information folder.

Finally, re Norton: Symantec's programs are extremely difficult to remove, because they insinuate themselves so thoroughly into your system ... kind of like a brain tumor. I thought I had finally removed every last trace of Norton Utilities from my desktop computer months ago, but I just did a Registry scan for "Norton ", and found four references to "Norton Unerase Protection ", none of which can be deleted. When I scanned for "Symantec" I found 24 references, all of which could be deleted. Checking carefully, I found that a "Symantec Shared" folder still existed in the Common Files folder. The only way to be truly Norton/Symantec-free is to format and reinstall.

 

I didsabled Hibernation (I don't use it!) and went from 16% free space to 29%. How do I move the pagefile? It's a gig and a half, and won't go because "files are in use ". Can I safely delete it? Dumped all the uninstall MS updates last night, so far, no problems. I do not need as many SR points, either, so I'm headed there, next.

Johanna

 

To move your Page File, open System Properties and click on the Advanced tab. Click the top Settings button, then on the Advanced tab. Click on the Change button at the bottom of the window. C: should already be highlighted ... select the No paging file radio button, then click on the Set button.

Now highlight D: and select the Custom size: radio button. A size for your Page File will be suggested at the bottom, but you might want to increase it. Type the same number into both windows, and click the Set button. OK your way out, and reboot. That's it!

If you want to go with no Page File at all, just select No paging file for both partitions. Just remember to click on the Set button EACH time you change something, or it won't stick.

 

Thank You Jim & Newt

Okay, disabled Hibernation, no Pagefile on C (I have 2 512 sticks of memory installed) and dumped all the MS uninstall temp folders. C drive now has 51% free. Not messing with Norton, for now, and so far, everything seems to be running peachy. Of course, it's early...

But the best news is:
I'm typing this with two hands!!!

>SMOOCH< guys, thanks a bunch!

(Dave, I'll PM you later- found out a couple interesting things about the online scanner for eTrust.)

Johanna

 

Johanna wrote:

• "I'm typing this with two hands!!! "

That's great news! I type with two hands, too, but I use only one finger on each hand (and to think that my Mom was a typing teacher! ) Just keep squeezing that tennis ball!

 

I wrote:

• "I'm not sure you even NEED a pagefile ... I ran my system for months without one, just to see if I could, and encountered no problems. "

I went back to using a small Page File because I ran across a program (I don't remember what it was) that specifically looked for a Page File, and wouldn't run properly if it couldn't find one. So, I figured, "better safe than sorry ".

 

Christer
There is about a gig in the inaccessable Norton Protected Recycle Bin. I was throwing stuff away, and not paying attention to Norton digging it out and filing it. I did not empty it before I uninstalled NU (First Mistake)

I put 100M on C for the pagefile, and 1500 on D (has 65% free space). So far, no change in performance. With a gig if memory, I shouldn't need a huge pagefile. I remember installing the second stick of memory, and the immediate improvement! XP likes memory! But a gig and a half of pagefile is a little much for the OS drive, when the only thing that partition is running is XP, NIS, and a handful of apps.

So for now, I can put away my tweezers and forget about the remains of Norton Utilities. I am going to ignore it. Next reinstall will take care of that, and I hope that waits until I have some new hardware...like a 64 bit processor...Santa, are you listening?

Johanna

 

Johanna, you don't need the Page File on C: if you have one on D:. No matter how complex your system is, you need only one Page File. And, with a GB of RAM, your Page File probably won't be used much, anyway.

 

Reclaiming disk space

I just defragged the C: partition on my desktop computer, as I hadn't done it for some time, and discovered something interesting (and somewhat perplexing).

Even though System Properties indicated that there was no Page File on C:, the defrag report said that a 1.5GB Page File actually did exist. When I unhid the protected files, there it was ... pagefile.sys. Fortunately, because it was not in use, it could be deleted.

At the same time I discovered that there was a sizeable hibernation file (hiberfil.sys) on C: as well, which surprised me, as I have no reason, or need, to have hibernation enabled on my desktop. When I went into Power Properties, however, there it was ... "Enable hibernation" was checked. Unchecking it automatically deleted hiberfil.sys.

My point is that a little housekeeping can be a VERY good thing. I reclaimed 2.5GB of space on C: and, because I defragged C: several times (once is NOT enough), my computer seems considerably faster at opening nearly everything, from programs to images and web pages.

 

I reclaimed most of my C drive ( had 55% free space) by disabling Hibernation (which I don't use) and moving the Pagefile. I was annoyed by the almost a gig of Norton Protected Recycle Bin Files I failed to delete before I dumped Norton Utilities 2002.

I couldn't delete them in any usual way because the file path was not recognized because the Norton Protected Recycle Bin was not there. I reinstalled some of NU (custom) this morning. It put the files in the Recycle Bin okay, but the file path was still unavailable, for many of the files. Grrrr... I used the compress function and "ignored all" the stuff that it couldn't find. Then, using the handy blue color to identify what was accesible, I moved the blue files to D drive where I deleted the whole new folder, finally, for once and for all! (I set up D drive to not use the Recycle Bin, period, so that nothing would go back!)

Now the Recycle Bin appears "empty" but according to "properties" there's 4M in there. LOL Now, that, I can live with! I now have 3.08 Gigs of used space- XP Pro, NIS 2003, NU 2002 (partial) and not quite a gig of miscellaneous apps & program files, and nearly 5 free Gigs on C drive.

Yes, of course, I ran Win Doctor...old habits are hard to break. It found 66 "problems ", mostly invalid shortcuts or wrong paths. I let it "repair all "- Why not? I think I'll leave NU alone, and ignore it!

This has been mentioned before, but I'm going to type it for anyone who may not realize that if you use additional partitions for data storage, System Restore is not necessary on those partitions. SR affects nothing but System Files, so you may as well disable it on non OS partitions.

Hope this helps someone else.
Johanna