Lost workgroup???

I have 4 PCs networked together via a switch. One of the PCs acts as a gateway out onto the Internet. I recently installed NAV 2004 on that PC, the Internet gateway PC. Before it would let me do that, though, it said I did not have a high enough version of IE. IE6 was on the NAV 2004 CD, so I installed that. Then, I installed NAV. Now, none of my PCs can see each other on the workgroup. They can all ping each other, and they can all get out onto the Internet.

None of the computer names, workgroup name, or IP addresses has changed on any of the PCs. What could be wrong?

Thanks.

 

First a tiny bit of troubleshooting for information.

Assuming you have a PC at 192.168.0.6 named George and with a folder shared as Stuff

From another PC, what happens when you try the following from the start~run line

\\192.168.0.6\stuff

\\George\stuff

Try both. Both should open a Windows Explorer window to that shared folder.

 

On PC_1, from Start~run

\\PC_2\__Shared
\\192.168.0.2\__Shared

Both result in an Explorer window
(However, I can't see that PC in Network Neighborhood)

\\PC_3\__Shared
\\192.168.0.3\__Shared

\\PC_4\__Shared
\\192.168.0.4\__Shared

Those 4 commands result in "The network name cannot be found "

 

OK. Interesting - not pretty but interesting.

What operating system(s)? If not all the same, which does the gateway PC run?

 

The gateway PC is running W98SE with ICSMGR. One of the clients is running ME, and the other two clients W98SE.

All of the PCs can ping each other, and the three clients can get out onto the Internet through the gateway PC.

 

Dang. Was hoping you had NT4/2K/XP just to make this next part easier. Ah well.

On the host PC, the PC you could connect to, and one PC you couldn't connect to, please provide the following information. The host PC should have at least two sets of information and maybe more. One or more of the others may as well. Need to see it all.

Do start~run~winipcfg and when the GUI window pops up, click the button to give you detail. Then all the stuff below except the bits I marked with XXXX. Some will be blank.

Windows IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . :
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . :
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . :
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . :

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . :
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . :
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . :
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . :
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . :
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . :
Primary WINS Server . . . . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . :

 

Here is the info for the host/gateway PC:

Windows 98 IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . : RICHARD.earthlink.net
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 207.69.188.187
207.69.188.186
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : Yes
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No

1 Ethernet adapter :

Description . . . . . . . . : 3Com 3C90x Ethernet Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-C0-4F-06-2A-DB
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

2 Ethernet adapter :

Description . . . . . . . . : ICSHARE Adapter.
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-02-2D-89-C6-77
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . : 04 29 04 10:35:17 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . : 04 30 04 10:35:17 AM


Here's the info from one of the client PCs:

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . : Richard.G_AND_R
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : Yes

0 Ethernet adapter :

Description . . . . . . . . : Linksys LNE100TX Fast Ethernet Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-A0-CC-56-BA-95
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.3
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

 

Well, shucks. I'm perhaps even more bewildered, now. I've occasionally been checking my PCs, as you suggested, by doing Start~run~\\PC_1\someshared. That was working on 2 of the PC, and failing on the other two when you first asked me to do that. Today, though, it worked on 3 of them. I rebooted the one that was still failing, and then that command worked on all of them, but still none of the PC could see each other via Network Neighborhood. However, I came back a few hours later, and all of the PC could see each other in Network Neighborhood. I still had yet, to change any setting on any of the PCs since this problem began.

I did recently come across this thing called Browse Master, though. I thought perhaps the one that I had rebooted might have been BM but was somehow messed up. I did not know yet that how to see which PC was the BM, though. I thought I'd try disabling BM on all of my PCs but one (I had come across how to to that).

Anyway, now my network host PC is the BM, being that it is the only one of the 4 that I will permit to be the BM, now. All of the PCs can see each other in Network Neighborhood, but I'm not entirely sure that this was the solution. If not one single one of the PCs is the BM, would that be a reason that the PCs would not be able to see each other in Network Neighborhood?

Is it a requirement that you must reboot all of the PCs in your workgroup to get a new BM? I think I read that the "strongest" (but I didn't see what was meant by "strongest ") PC will win the "election ", and become the BM, but what if the one that wins fails to perform its duties as the BM? Is rebooting all of the PCs the only one to cause a new election?

 

maybe the software did something to the network, try w/o the software or the software on the other computers.

Good Luck,
Jason

 

You might want to take a few minutes to read This article about the whole browser thing.

It does have quite an effect on a network and you probably did something to force a new browser election.

I think a part of your problem may be
Host Name . . . . . . . . . : Richard.G_AND_R
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : Yes

192.168.0.1 probably isn't acting as a DNS server and for your local LAN, NetBIOS Resolution will do better not trying to use it even if it is available.

For internet browsing, the client PCs will should use the real internet DNS servers via the ICS host.

I would try setting the client PCs to blank DNS Server and NetBIOS Resolution to not try to use DNS and see how things work. If it causes problems you can always set it back the way it is now.

 

Interesting. I'm pretty sure that when I first tried to set up my home network, I had DNS server blank on the host, and the clients couldn't get any DNS resolution, so I tried setting it to "yes" (that was just a guess to try that). It worked, and I wondered why. My only guess was that the ICS host, realizing that it could not do the DNS resolution, just passed the DNS resolution requests from the home network clients on to its DNS servers. Anyway, I'll try setting DNS server to blank later today, and see what happens.

I figured I probably could specify the actual DNS servers out on the Internet to the individual clients, but that seem like a bit of a pain. I supposed I should explain something about how I get out onto the Internet. I don't have an ISP they most people do, like dial-up, DSL, or cable modem. I live in a trailer park, and one of the other residents there has DSL, and has up a wireless network. He has about 5-6 "clients ", me being one of them, and we all share his DSL link to the Internet. My ICS host gets its IP address, gateway address, DNS server addresses via DHCP from the wireless basestation. Occasionally, the guy who runs this little setup will change something with his ISP, and the DNS server addresses will change. That does not matter to my ICS host because it just gets the new DNS server addresses when it makes issues a DHCP request. However, if I had specified the Internet DNS servers to my home network clients, that would be a problem when the DNS server addresses changed. I'd probably start checking all kinds of stuff before I discovered the DNS server address descrepancy. I didn't set up my home network to have the clients get their IP addresses, etc. via DHCP because I thought it seemed like a bit of a bother when I only have 3 or 4 clients (if I add another client it's pretty easy just to specify the IP address, gateway, etc the one time, and then I'm done with it). It might be interesting. though, to sometime try using DHCP on my home network just to see what happens. Maybe it would pass the actual Internet DNS server addresses that it has down to the home network clients????

 

A better and more reliable way, especially when using different OSs would be to replace the Switch with a ROUTER and forget ICS.

The Router will be the DHCP server and each machine will be capable of getting to the Internet without depending on any other.

ICS actually stands for Internet Connection Sharing. ( I have my own name for it but I can't print it ) But in order for it to work one machine must be on at all times. If it goes down or some get set wrong on it no one can get to the Internet.

BillyBob

 

I'm not exactly sure how I could incorpate a router. I think it would have to be a wireless router, but before I go any further with that let me provide a crude diagram of how my network is setup (sorry about the accent graves. Try to imagine that they aren't there. This BBS doesn't allow multiple consecutive blanks):

wi-fi ` ` ` ` ` ` `wi-fi ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` |---client PC
base....( "air ")......trans/rec--USB--ICS PC-----switch-|---client PC
(DHCP ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` (DHCP ` ` ` ` ` ` ` |---client PC
server) ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `client)


Here's how I would imagine I would incorporate a [wireless] router:

` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` |---client PC
wi-fi ` ` ` ` ` `wireless` ` ` ` `|---client PC
base.....( "air ")...router------?---|---client PC
(DHCP ` ` ` ` `(DHCP` ` ` ` ` `|---client PC
server) ` ` ` ` client?)

The wireless base station is expecting a DHCP request in order to connect to its network. Can a wireless router do that? I thought about doing this a long time ago. I called three of the companies that I knew made wireless routers. I asked if their wireless router could be a DHCP client. Two of them were clueless as to what I was even asking, and couldn't even provide me a "yes or no" answere. One of them finally got it, but said, "No, it could not function as a DHCP client." So, I got discouraged, and have pursued that any further.

Also, not only would the wireless router have to be capable of being a DHCP client, it would also have to be capable of the same encryption/security funchtionality as the wireless base station.

I thought about asking the guy who runs the wireless network about giving me a permanent IP address (he does have hard coded into his security scheme the MAC addresses of all of his clients), but he is a hard guy to get to listen to any suggestions. He does things how he does things, and that's that.

Now, perhaps I have got this all wrong. If so, please enlighten me.

Thanks.

 

All you would need to do ( as far as I know ) is to plug each machine into the Router instead of the switch. Very possibely with the same cable.

Why does it have to be wireless ? I assume that each machine is pluggged into the switch with a cable. Am I thinking wrong ?

OOPS !! I see I missed this by you The wireless base station i

Wireless ( if being used ) may be part of the problem. Cordless phones and cell phones can ( and I hear ) raise heck wire less PC devices.

I do not know about a wireless Router but my Linksys ( wired ) router is a 4 port Router/Switch.

It is also a DHCP SERVER. A cable from each machine is just plugged into it and and an IP address is asigned to each as it is turned on. I myself do nothing on either machine. My NIC setup takes care of it all. And I have used versions of Windows 98 thru XP Pro.

BillyBob

 

Yes, I have heard that. Most of the current cordless phones run at 2.4 GHz. So, do microwave ovens. I have two microwave ovens less than 20 feet from my wireless trans/rec. I have run both at the same time, and experienced no problems on the wireless, and observed no decrease in the SNR. Fornuately, my cordless phone is 900 MHz, so I don't have to worry about it. Just about everybody has cell phones these days, but I don't think they are affecting my wireless connection.

I am about 100-120 feet from the wireless base, but the guy uses directional antennas, and has a pretty powerful transmitter. A heavy rain (water absorbs well at 2.4 GHz, that's why that frequency is used in MW ovens) storm used to cause problems, but the wireless network provider boosted his transmitter's power, and relocated the antenna slightly, so even rain is rarely a problem, now. The signal strength from the wireless base station is around -65dB (with a SNR of 35 dB), and it runs a 11 Mbps, the maximum for this wireless protocol. The base station receives my puny little wireless trans/rec with a signal strength of -74 dB (with a SNR of -18 dB), and it run at either 11 Mbps or 5 Mbps. Basically, I have no problem with the wireless.

 

OK. Now I understand better why Wireless is needed by you.

But in my personal opinion you would be far better off to get your own Internet connection and go for a WIRED system which would be much more dependable.

BillyBob

 

The wireless guy pays about $50/month for his DSL. I pay him about $17.

As far as dependablity goes, most of the problems come from the DSL provider. Every few months or so we'll be down for a few to several hours.