LAN or WAN problem ??

A little help needed here.

Hardware;
Linksys BEFSR41 Router/Switch
Two machines running Win98.
Host in Canada IP=xx.xxx.xx.xx ( sent to me by Host )
Bob LAN IP=192.168.1.100
Nancy LAN IP=192.168.1.101
DHCP seems to be working properly ( I think )

Both machines work just fine via the LAN ( when I try to beat Nancy but CAN't )

Software;
Norton Internet Security
Norton AV ( don't think this is a problem )
Links 2001 or 2003 Golf.

Bob uses the Host IP and connects to the Host and sees Host & Bob

Nancy uses Host IP and connects to the Host and sees Host and Nancy.

But Bob does not see Nancy and Nancy does not see Bob.

The Host sees all three as it should be.

Also it acts like the games is trying to use both LAN & WAN. Which of coures does nothing but lock things up tight enough to require a Power Down reboot of both machines.

Is it the Firewall that is the problem ? Or is it the Router doing its job ?

Is there something I can change to make this work as it used to before I put the Router on ?

BillyBob

 

BB - as you describe it, sounds like the problem is caused by NAT on the router behaving as it is designed.

A bit of NAT 101: (and lots of this is for other folks who might read the thread since I'm sure you know a good bit of it)

LAN PCs have private IP addresses. Designed not to route which is good since having multiple PCs on the internet with the same address wouldn't work.

NAT (network address translation) on the router takes an outbound packet from Bob at 192.168.1.100 and stores it. Changes the packet header to replace 192.168.1.100 with it's real IP address and packet goes out to the world.

Response packet come in addressed to the router IP. NAT examines it for a match and says - "OK. That one is for Bob" based on a comparison to info in it's database from the original packet. NAT then modifies the address in the header to 192.168.1.100 and sends it on. You get it since it is addressed to you.

The above works well if the traffic originated within your LAN and is strictly meant to go out and come back to you. Otherwise, origin unknown so destination unknown. Packet never gets in thru NAT.

In your example, Bob & Host can talk if Bob starts the conversation. Nancy and host can talk if Nancy starts the conversation.

Also, if Nancy sends directly to Bob it works fine since the router sees the destination as being within the LAN and leaves the packet alone - switch sends it to the correct PC. NAT never even wakes up.

I can't think of a way using NAT for your setup to work properly if Bob and Nancy need to talk via packets to/thru the host. You would pretty much have to have internic assigned IP addresses for both PCs.

There is a commonly used dodge that would partly work in your situation but only partly. Game traffic will all be trying to use specific IP ports. Your router can be set to "port forward" which means any inbound packet addressed to a certain IP port, regardless of the IP address, is always sent to a specific PC within your LAN. So you could set for Bob to see it all OR for Nancy to see it all. What a mess that would be though.

 

Thank You Newt.

Your reply pretty much reflects my own thoughts. That being that the Router & NAT were doing their Job.

From what you say I actually preformed a test that verifies that things are indeed working as they should.

And I think I will just leave it that way. Cause I don't think I like the idea of opening up ports. Nope we can just use this one machine with both of us on it.

. You would pretty much have to have internic assigned IP addresses for both PCs.

You lost me on that one.

But if I understand it at all correctly, that is why all worked when I had just the HUB. Each machine used its own IP address. Modem was set for three. Two extra paid for.

Bottom line.
I think I will leave well enough alone.

BillyBob

 

I think Newt hit the wrong key while typing. Try substituting intrinsic (or intrinsically) for internic. I do that all the time and sometime it even makes sense. The bottom line is, if you read your own post three weeks later and don't understand what you said... well..you know..

 

Try substituting intrincic for internic.

Substitute, snubstitute. I ani't got the foggest idea what either one is

But I do believe in a roundabout way it means each machine has its own routable WAN IP address. Not a LAN non-routable address.

I think I think right. Or is it left ?

Bill E Bob

 

I said INTRINSIC not intrincic. India-November-Tango-Romeo-India-November-Sierra-India-Charlie.

It means "belonging to a thing by its very nature ".

What Newt said was; If you stay on your own LAN, you can get by with assigning your own addresses but if you connect to the Internet, you will only have the address/addresses that you paid your ISP for. For some folks, that's nothing certain since it usually costs extra to have a fixed internet address.

 

Zephyr

I think what * may have * happened was that I had copied and was pasting while you may have been editing.

I started the reply and then had to answer the phone and was trying my best to make some telemarketer understand what the words NO THANK YOU mean. After the 3rd time CLICK and back to more important things.

Anyhow I get the message that things are apparrently working as they should be with only one IP address.

So they will sit as they are for now.

BillyBob

 

All you have to do is get everyone who wants to participate to get a fixed address. If your family is anything like mine, that'll take a very big stick.

I get those tele-marketer call too, my standard response is; we just sold the home and it's in escrow, we already take that paper, and we already have a contract with the Neptune Society.

Cheers!

 

BB - sorry for the "internic" thing. I meant you would need real, internet-able, assigned to you, paid for IP addresses. Just like you had with the hub.

But as far as InterNIC goes, it just shows I'm old I suppose. From the above site:

 

No Need to be sorry, Maybe wrong words. Or misspelled words. but the message was there. Even though I did not real know the words themselves.

Actually the meassage was received right from the first reply to my request for help.

But in all reallity is was received before I asked for help.

All replys to my request just verified that it was not just some scatterbrained wild idea of mine.

The answer to it all is ( I believe );

Get another IP and see if it would work then.

Or live with it as is.

If it were a real problem then I would wage a full scale war to solve it. But it ain't and I won't borther.

For one night a week I think I can hande my wife sitting right next to me when she puts that little white ball in the cup for a 40' Birdie ( Yes, she has done it ) and me sitting 20' from the hole.

Sometimes I think I am playing against Tiger Woods

Although I did put a GeForce3 TI 500 video card in her machine ( which I have full intentions of stealing ). It ran the frame rate from 18-19 FPS up to 30-35 FPS in Links 2003. I am running 30-32 with a dumb $49 BASIC ATI card. So what would it do to mine ?

I know that I have a good amount of $$$$ tiied up in Links Golf but it has been well worth it. We have been playing it since the days of Links 386 and 3.5 floppys.

But it does take a GOOD video card to get the best out of it. Especially the new Links 2003.