Install Win 8.1 Update or lose future updates ...

Yeah, I think something will have to change before then - or at least some clarification.

 

Looks like you must be a good boy and follow my instructions - or else!
This will stop selective updaters!

I'm also wondering what will happen to new sales of 'puters that are sold with W8 installed on or after May 14th??? Neil.

 

Well, personally, I think a major part of "practicing safe computing" is keeping our operating systems (all programs, actually) current with the latest updates and patches.

Users who don't keep their systems updated are less safe. And what happens then if they get infected? They blame MS. So I am on Microsoft's side here.

Nothing. When the computer goes to WU, it will install the necessary updates, including this Windows 8.1 Update, then press on.

 

I haven't started Windows 8.1 Virtual Machine on my Mac for over 5 months. And did I miss the May 13 deadline? Does it mean I can't get the Windows 8.1 Updates anymore, even though Windows Update has been set "automatic "?

 

They are masters at that!

 

Mine updated automatically. Didn't even know it until I read this thread.

Mitch

 

So, it seems that (the - extended - deadline having passed) the so-called "Windows 8.1 Update" - effectively a new variant and which alone gives access to all future security updates and patches to the 8.1 OS - will have become forever inaccessible to any purchaser of 8 or 8.1 who not just failed to install it in time but who - having duly done so - ever thereafter reinstalls 8.1 (by whatever means and for whatever reason).

Is this the correct understanding and, if so, would I be alone in regarding this as sharp practice on MS's part, meriting judicial intervention (eg through the European Court)?

 

That's a silly and biased conclusion. You act as though this is forcing you to spend money. This is about keeping current with the latest, and most secure updates, while maintaining compatibility - at the same time not having to keep resources developing multiple versions of updates for users who fail to keep their systems current!

What is criminal about requiring users keep their systems current if they want future support? What is criminal about requiring AND PROVIDING a "free" prerequisite that establishes a new "base line" for future updates?

If you want to allow your system to fall behind in security and become a threat to you and others, don't update your system. But don't then come back around and blame Microsoft when your system becomes infested with malware because YOU FAILED to keep your operating system current - one of, if not THEE most basic and fundamental concepts of "practicing safe computing" - regardless if using Linux or Windows! If your OS is not current, the foundation for a secure computing platform will be compromised and weakened.

The USER is ALWAYS the weakest link in security. And it is a USER responsibility to keep our systems fully updated so we don't become a threat to others. Failure to keep our systems updated that results in a compromised machine makes the user the badguy, not Microsoft.

Would it be nicer if Microsoft got Windows 8 right (at least for desktop users) in the first place? Sure! So bash them on that if you want - that's a legitimate grip. But bashing because they want users to have the latest, most secure updates? That's ridiculous. That's like ignoring a recall notice for your car.

Bash when bashing is due and I will defend your Right to do so. And there are LOTS of reasons to bash Microsoft for past and present practices. This is not one of them.

FTR, I applaud Microsoft for forcing users to maintain their systems properly - with the most current patches and updates - and versions too (meaning I applaud them for ending support for XP and other obsolete, unsafe legacy products). Why? Because computers that are not kept current are routinely compromised by badguys, then used as weapons against the rest of us to inundate us with spam and malware, or to participate in DDoS attacks against important sites and organizations.

 

@Bill

You've completely missed my point, and gone off the deep-end in a big way into the bargain.

What I'm objecting to (and I'm not alone) is MS's imo perverse choice of update path, the effect of which has been to make repeat installations of an upgrade version of Win 8 (after a system-failure for instance - whether caused by user hamfistedness or not is beside the point) impossible.

It's a well-aired complaint, which you can hardly have remained oblivious to before now.

It ought not to have been beyond MS's technical competence to have preserved users' ability to clean-reinstall with meeting the security concerns you are shouting about.

EDIT
For the sake of clarity:- I'm talking about users who began by buying a retail upgrade version of Win 8, then upgraded it through the only means MS chose to make possible - electronically via the Store - then through automatic updates had that upgraded to "8.1 upgrade" (electronically again), without at any stage being granted access to updated physical media ABLE TO BE ACTIVATED WITH THE PRODUCT KEY THEY PAID-FOR WITH THEIR INITIAL PURCHASE

 

You are assuming software developers can anticipate ALL future needs and desires of all users, as well as future security issues - not to mention advances in hardware technologies. That is not rational. They can only hope and guess. You are also assuming any change to the existing code can be done seamlessly. That is also not rational - regardless how desirable that goal may be for both Microsoft, and Windows users.

To be sure, I get frustrated myself when an update requires me to reboot my computer. And there is almost always a little flicker of doubt (fear?) bouncing around inside my head that an update will break my system - because of past history with Windows Update. But it is critical ALL users understand AND ACCEPT that Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 are not XP. And neither is Windows Update in these versions. The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of nearly 1.4 billion Windows users out there run Windows with its default settings - which is Windows Update set to automatically download and install all updates. And the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of those 1.4 billion users don't have problems.

I will not pretend that ALL Windows Update problems have gone away with the newer versions, but they are so less common today that not staying current is much more risky than applying the updates as they come out.

Microsoft's grave (IMO) mistake was assuming ALL desktop users would immediately fall in love with W8's new Start Screen (Metro UI and "Tiles "). Bash them for that! I did and do.

Perverse? Windows Update is perverse? The Store is perverse? What I find perverse is users failing to keep their systems current - again, not just for their own security, but for the security of their fellow computer and Internet users.

The Store is just the download location for 8.1. Pushing such a large chunk of code via Windows Update was not practical.

But you act as though this was planned - and with criminal intent deserving EU intervention!!!! That's my objection to your initial post. Physical media? So a company should be investigated for criminal behavior for not providing updates via costly DVDs?

And to be sure, there are and will be ways for folks to start over with a fresh install. It may be clunky, but it can be done. But it must be noted that a fresh install is always a last resort option - never as a matter of routine. Again, W7 and W8 are not XP and don't need periodic reformats and reinstalls.

But let's not forget another important "practicing safe computing" concept. Keeping a current backup so a full install in not needed.

Again and to clarify, my objection with your position is not about the clunky upgrade process (and it is clunky - no doubt), but you painting it as deserving of a criminal investigation. That's just flat-out wrong.

 

I may have been wrong (i'm not a lawyer) but I didn't think that criminal intent was a prerequisite for judicial intervention; I believe that an allegation of damage (either to persons or to the public interest) can be sufficient to occasion it. Neither, of course, are penal sanctions involved. I didn't suggest or imply malfeasance or fraud. I can't see how the criminal law or the penal code could or need be invoked in such a case. I'm talking about consumer protection, against innately self-seeking corporate interests.

In this threadhttp://www.windowsbbs.com/windows-8/107460-recovery-image.html I appealed for anyone who knew how this might be done to show us the way. Perhaps you didn't see it?

 

And, moreover, you've again missed the point.

There is and was no need for physical media to be provided (free) by MS for my criticism to have been met. MS already with 8.1's introduction provided the means for anyone who wanted to to download an .iso image of the system-install package, for burning either to disc or usb-drive. The problem is that it's useless for a clean install of 8.1 without owning an 8.1 product key - meaning you have to buy an otherwise totally redundant retail copy of 8.1 - and doubly useless, i assume EVEN WITH AN 8.1 PRODUCT KEY for one capable of being updated from then on.

If you know anything to the contrary, why not usefully address that issue instead of working yourself up into a lather over allegations of criminal misconduct that were never made?

 

Never made? Come on! If you were not suggesting criminal misconduct, then why did you suggest "judicial intervention" through the European Court?

You do not have to buy a new key. Note the product key is set in the BIOS for factory made PCs. And home builts come with disks. I grant you re-installing from the start may be a challenge, but you are talking about a minuscule portion of users being inconvenienced out of the total number of users when the reality is, those very users should have created (and recreated as needed) image disks to keep a current backup - in the very rare event a fresh install is needed.

 

Hi Bill, my Home built desktop was built and I purchased a Product Key for W8.1 Pro on line.
I then Downloaded from MS an ISO. which I burnt to DVD and then installed to comp.
I then, when all was setup and running OK with all the Software i wanted, made a copy as I'm allowed to. This is on a thumb drive as per instructions from MS and should in the event of a major problem, enable the OS to be restored. Am I correct in believing this? Neil.

 

I already explained that. Clearly you're impervious to reasoned explanations.

 

@retiredleaerner - that "should" work fine. Of course the true test is to try it and see if it works - BEFORE tragedy hits. The safest way to do this is to swap your boot drive with a different drive and see if you can restore your system to the new drive.

Note, folks do this all the time when migrating from HD to SSD.

That said, you should never have to re-install back to factory state. That's what current backups are for.

As for thumbdrives, I am not a fan of long term storage on thumbdrives - especially for backup storage. I don't believe thumb drive devices have proven themselves to be robust enough. That is, they are too easily physically damaged, and there are just too many reports of lost or unreadable data for me to trust it for backups. I mean, how robust and reliable can a 8Gb flash drive that costs less than $3 be? Not to mention they are small and easily lost, or left in a pocket then run through the washing machine and dryer. I would also not be surprised if a microscopic analysis of many failed thumbdrives revealed HUGE (microscopically speaking) scorch marks from ESD.

I repurposed an old XP system as my "off-line" backup server/NAS. By off-line, I mean in this case it is blocked from Internet access via my router (as all XP systems should be, IMO). But I can access it with any connected computer through my own LAN. Keeps the old workhorse out of the recycling center - for now.

And to ensure I can recover my data regardless the bad/evil event (burglary, fire, flood, tornado - something that might take out my whole home, and all my computers inside), I also burn images and create backups of all my important data and keep those disks "off-site" - in my case, in my safe-deposit box at my bank. The "cloud" may be suitable for some.

@kosketus - even if you were suggesting a "civil" wrong, suggesting "innately self-seeking corporate interests" is still implying MS intentionally inserted (or left) code in the program to force that small percentage of users this applies to to spend more money! That's a ludicrous suggestion! Especially when MS knows they are so keenly watched - like Republicans over Hillary (and no, I'm an Independent ).

No way would MS intentionally make it hard to keep Windows current because (1) it is a fact that keeping Windows current is one of, if not the most important user function to keep our systems secure and our families safe and (2) Microsoft knows for a fact that they will get blamed relentlessly for any bad security situation - regardless who perpetrates it, even when common sense says it is not MS, but the badguys who put us here.

Now, does Microsoft have a "self-seeking interest" to move all users to the new metro-style Start Screen with tiles? Yes! Because the world is moving away from PCs to mobile devices and MS wants PC users to intuitively be able to pick up a Windows Phone with a metro-style Start Screen with tiles and know how to use it.

That was a business and marketing decision that was ill-conceived and poorly implemented. That as it is a REAL complaint that deserved the ire and bashing of users and the IT media. Can you say, "Start8 "?

MS then scrambled to put out something to appease PC users that sadly, hosed a very few number of users - and attracted the attention of some very vocal and opinionated IT journalist, again - but not surprising.

It was a poor business decision to force the Windows Phone UI on PC users with Windows 8. Then it was a poorly planned and badly implemented (for those few affected) fix to bring [some] of Windows 7's look and feel back with 8.1 and 8.1 Update.

But was it criminal or civil "misconduct" - that is, willful intent to screw-over those few users? NO! That's absurd!

REGARDLESS - let's not forget that a full reinstall back to factory state should NEVER be needed - at least not with a modern OS like W7 or W8 (or a current Linux). Because everyone should have a current backup, with all the latest patches and updates installed. Right? We ALL know that. And we all should understand that ALL DRIVES WILL FAIL - eventually, if not sooner.

Poor planning on our parts is not Microsoft's (or the computer makers) fault!

****

Here's some good info: http://www.eightforums.com/installa...retail-windows-8-1-windows-8-product-key.html

 

Thank you Bill. The thumb drive had to be larger than 16GB's so I used a 32GB USB 3.0. I'll let you know if I have any problems. Neil.

 

Sounds like a plan. And remember, a backup is not very useful if it is not kept current. So establish a routine to update it regularly.