HELP! No Safe Mode in Win 98

I have so many problems with this computer that I don't know where to start! Have been trying all kinds of things to fix it, and well, I've got a huge mess now and it won't even go to safe mode and apparently won't even reinstall either!

This is an older computer (mom's) that only showed 16 colors and she wanted to install a casino game that required high color. (we installed it anyway and got all kinds of himem.sys errors and xms errors, so I got to safe mode and uninstalled the game and windows worked fine).

Then a few days later, I downloaded a driver for the display adapter which allowed me to change the screen to high color. So I reinstalled the game and everything worked. For about 30 minutes!!!

Then suddenly started getting all kinds of illegal operations, faults, fatal error exceptions - you name it. At one point it said it restored the register. Later when I tried to do it manually, the only entries were from over a year ago?? what is up with that??

BUT I cannot get it to start in safe mode. If I could get there, I could get rid of this driver attachment. Anyway, I have had to use the startup disk and it says it is going to start the computer, but then just states that the tools have been transferred to the cd.

I have even tried to reinstall Win98 over itself and it runs through scandisk (ok) then says "error loading progman.exe. What in the world do I try now? I need SO much help right now - I am going to sign this "Over My Head(?) "

Thanks.

 

When you tried this did you boot from the Hard Drive or from the Win98 Startup disk ?

Also is this a home built machine or a pre-buillt ((OEM ) Packard Hell, Dell, or HP etc. ) machine ?

It may well have restored an older reg backup that was completely illegal. YES it WILL do that

Also I do not understand what you mean by [i} entries from a year ago/[/i] Win98 only keeps five ( unless some one has changed something. Also could the Date on the PC be wrong ?

Answers to these questions will help us quite a bit.

BillyBob

 

BillyBob,

It did have only 5 registery entries but all were dated over a year ago. Now, there was a time during all these fixes that I had gone into cmos and I remember the time was off and maybe the dates were too, but honestly, I cannot remember! (I believe I have lost my memory too - I have been working with this for 3 days!) So yes, I suppose it is entirely possible that the dates were wrong.

As far as the boot, I had tried to start this so many times from A then C and back again that I don't know which one it was, but it did happen twice - same exact sequence (scandisk then error loading progman.exe). If it is important, I will redo it again from whichever one you want me to try and give you the results.

Thanks for speedy reply!

 

BillyBob,

Oops, forgot to answer about computer. It is a home built machine. Started with windows 3.1 then my mom's friend re did it with windows 98 from clean drive. Any other info you need on this?

 

First to clear things up.

This is as it should have been. The floppy is to be used to fix some problems, if you know how, or to install windows. It will not start windows for you.

A year ago the automatic registry scanner was disabled from starting up. This makes a backup of the registry, once each day the computer is turned on.

No doubt this game updated some DirectX files, and botched it up. You have incorrect versions of system files mixed up, causing all the other errors.
I would recommend this method to install windows.
Use the floppy to start the computer, choosing with CDrom support, watch the screen for the letter for the CD drive, it will not be the letter you are used to, it may be E:. Put the windows CD in the drive, and type in these commands at the prompt, pressing enter at the end of each line;

c:
md\win98
copy X:\win98\*.* c:\win98 << X being the drive letter for the CD

Press CTRL+ALT+DEL at the same time, with the floppy in the drive, this will reboot. This time choose without CDRom support. Type in this command at the prompt;
c:\win98\setup.exe

This will overlay install windows from the hard drive, keeping things loaded into memory to a minimum.
When windows is installing, make sure that is installing into C:\Windows.
Go to the Windows Update Site, get all the criticals, update DirectX from there.
Good luck to you!

 

Markp62 -

Thanks for that info. I had already copied the win98 files to the c drive, but I had not been rebooting to 'without cd' mode before trying to execute setup. So that must have been the first problem and it did go through the setup process for me. I am also thankful that you mentioned to install in the Windows directory, because I would not have known whether I should or shouldn't do that when it asked. So that part all worked - Thank you thank you.

Now new problem. The computer started and first thing off the bat says "memory test failed ". I hit DEL to get to setup for reasons unknown and exited out. It then hit ESC to avoid memory test. Maybe wrong idea - anyway, after Windows 98 screen said it was getting ready to run for first time, I got a black page saying "Your program caused a divide overflow error. If the problem persists, contact your program vendor. C\Windows\System\VMM32.vxd missing/unable to load ". While waiting to be able to use my computer to get on the internet and ask about this - should I restart ctrl,alt,del or what - I got a new message "Not ready ready drive c - Abort, Retry, Fail?" - although no letter is accepted or typed. It is still sitting on that screen (for now!)

Any help - anybody - please ???? Thanks!

 

This is a good indication that you have a dead processor, along with all the other errors [illegal operations, faults, fatal error exceptions] that you received before the install of windows. Others here may have different thoughts.

 

c:
md\win98
copy X:\win98\*.* c:\win98 <<

The idea of copying the setup files is a very good one. In fact it is an excellent one.

But if at all possible create the directory on and copy the files to a drive other than C:

In other words change the C: in the commands to D:

Then they will not have to copied again if the C: drive does need to be formated.

Gotta get something cleared up here.

From dlmars

Reply from markp62

I have a problem with that statement and reply.

The startup disk transfers nothing to the HD let alone CD.

The only thing the startup does is boot the machine and CREATE a RAMDRIVE in Memory and copy the tools ( Fdisk, Scandisk, Format etc. ) to it.

And the Ram Drive disapears once the machine reboots again.

Is it possible that dlmars is mistaking the letter D: ( which is now the RamDrive ) for the CDROM DRIVE ( which is now E: )which would be D: under normal HD boot up ?

BillyBob

 

BillyBob,

Yes, you are right, I did make a mistake when I said that it transferred the tools to the cd. It did in fact say drive D and I know that the cdrom is now E.

However, do you agree with Markp62 about it being a dead processor? How can I find out for sure?

Because the uncanny thing is that I am now getting new errors upon reboot that are the same as I had gotten the first time I installed that casino game a week ago (memory test fail, himem.sys detecting unreliable xms memory, xms driver not installed, himem.sys is missing). When I had gotten to safe mode and removed the game the first time, I did not get these messages again (until now). (I had reinstalled this game after downloading a driver for the display adapter.)

Also, one other thing that might not have anything to do with this. When I mentioned in first post that everything worked for about 30 minutes, I had forgotten that during that time I had gone to microsoft and downloaded 2 critical updates. It was after that when I started getting those protection errors and illegal operations, etc. Any thoughts on that?

That aside, one big problem is still that I cannot get to safe mode to remove this game or that driver to see if that is causing the problem! Can I do anything from DOS (including checking anything that might tell us if it is the processor?

Appreciate all the help I can get - Thanks!

 

Yes, you are right, I did make a mistake when I said that it transferred the tools to the cd. It did in fact say drive D and I know that the cdrom is now E.

OK. Glad to get that cleared up.

However, do you agree with Markp62 about it being a dead processor? How can I find out for sure?

My nonest answer. " I do not know. " I had that message on one machine YEARS ago but it is still purring along nicely.

***I had forgotten that during that time I had gone to microsoft and downloaded 2 critical updates. It was after that when I started getting those protection errors and illegal operations, etc. Any thoughts on that?

Which created the problem. Game update or Windows update is the question. I suspect the Game updates.

From 1st post
This is an older computer (mom's) that only showed 16 colors and she wanted to install a casino game that required high color. (we installed it anyway and got all kinds of himem.sys errors and xms errors, so I got to safe mode and uninstalled the game and windows worked fine).

Then a few days later, I downloaded a driver for the display adapter which allowed me to change the screen to high color. So I reinstalled the game and everything worked. For about 30 minutes!!!

I am very suspicious that the game is a DOS based game due to the Himem.sys and XMS errors. DOS is the only thing that uses them.

But my main feeling is that something disrupted the Bootup part of Windows.

When you boot up do you get the DOS Menu that gives you several choices by hitting th F8 key or holding down the Control key ?

But you should be able to the startup disk DIRECTLY from a power off state and be able to change to the folder where the Windows setup files are located and re-install Windows over itself. Just make sure that it goes back into the existing folder.

DO NOT let the machine go to the HD first.

BillyBob

 

BillyBob, Thanks for replying so quickly!

When you boot up do you get the DOS Menu that gives you several choices by hitting th F8 key or holding down the Control key?

I get the screen that gives me about 6 choices of startup.

But you should be able to the startup disk DIRECTLY from a power off state and be able to change to the folder where the Windows setup files are located and re-install Windows over itself. Just make sure that it goes back into the existing folder

I am able to do this. But I had re-installed windows98 over itself after my first post. Are you saying maybe I should I try it again?

Also, if I do another re-install - I have read many different things regarding vmm32.vxd - should I rename that to another filename and then re-install?

 

This could be headed for more trouble than its worth - even if all hardware (including your processor) is still in good shape.

Soooo, --- If you want to get real smart and can forego whatever was once on your computer, this candidate would get my vote for a completely redone drive - FDISK the MBR, delete and rebuild the partition (s), format em' and then copy your 98CD to the hard drive and do the install from there. You will probably need to pull drivers off the Internet, but at least you will have something after your effort and the time spent.

You'll spend twice as long trying to straighten that Puppy out any other way and will probably never get it 100% right.

 

I do not like writing this but Rockster2U could very well have the better idea.

If you have tired once with no success it more than likely will not work on another try.

format em' and then copy your 98CD to the hard drive and do the install from there.

All you need to copy to the HD are the files in the Win98 folder of the CD. You do not need the full CD.

But still boot to the Startup disk to do the install. Just point it to the location of the setup files on the HD.

This brings up a question arising from one of my own bad installs of 98.

When you did the re-install did you do it after pointing to the Win98 folder on the CD.? Or just put the CD in and run setup ?

The latter can cause problems. There is stuff in there that is not needed. And Windows will be pointed to the wrong location after installing.

BillyBob

 

Thanks for the replies.

First, to answer BillyBob,
When you did the re-install did you do it after pointing to the Win98 folder on the CD.? Or just put the CD in and run setup ?

I had first copied the files from cd to newly created c:\win98; then rebooted with start disk (without cd support per Markp62). Then changed dir to c:\win98 and typed setup. Was that right?

Question Rockster2u,
and can forego whatever was once on your computer

Please explain this to me - exactly what would I be losing? There are no personal files on that computer and I am pretty sure the only extra programs are Office97 (have disk), and Internet (no disk). What I would worry about is losing hardware settings, because I am not even sure what all is on that machine.

As as I mentioned before, it was upgraded about 3 years ago by someone else (no idea how to find him anymore) and I know he had changed out the motherboard and modem and speakers and who knows what else. I do not have any disks or paperwork on anything that he may have added to it.

Can I use dos to find out what is on the machine right now? Tried msinfo32 and says it does not work from dos.

I don't mind trying to format and reinstall, because I have spent this much time on it that I would like to see if it could work again. If not, what have I lost but some time? So far, this has been a good learning experience and I would like to know more about them and how they work, even though I have used them for many years!

Thanks to everyone who has responded!

 

I can't take time to reply right now

Heavy storm in the area. Lights flickering. Gotts shut down.

Be back ASAP.

BB

 

Here are a couple of links with dos based hardware testing and detection software.
http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/50082.html
http://www.pchardware.ro/Download/index.php?catid=5
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?id=9
Some are free, some aren't.
From this Google search.

 

I had first copied the files from cd to newly created c:\win98; then rebooted with start disk (without cd support per Markp62). Then changed dir to c:\win98 and typed setup. Was that right?

Yes. that looks OK.

It would make no difference whether you chose to start with CD support or not. That has nothing to do with the install process. Even if you do install from the HD.

I myself usually forget about that part anyway. None of my Startup disks even come up with a menu.

And I do not have to be concerned as to what letter the CDROM(s) is ( are ) anyway. They are set to a permanent S: & T: And Windows follows suit. All three machines are set that way. That way I can add/subtract HD partitions and the CDROMS stay the same. That is a little helpful trick that I learned way back in the days of Win95. And have just carried it on through.

BillyBob

 

Markp62, thanks for the links. One of the free ones will check the processor and its function. I think I will try that later tonight or tomorrow morning before I go any further with all this.

But I am presuming that you gave me those links for hardware detection because I WILL need to know what is on the machine if I decide to go ahead with the Fdisk and reinstall?

Because I still don't understand what types of things are lost during that format. Any replies are appreciated!

 

The straight forward answer is a nasty one.

EVERYTHING on the HD will be lost when a format is done.

Or at least on the Partition that is being formated. If you have C: and D: and you format C: d: will remain intact.

BillyBob

 

I am kind of hoping this format will be a last resort thing to do. I wouldn't be too worried about it if I was certain I could get everything back. Are there certain files I should probably move to D beforehand? I don't have a lot of memory on this machine.

I have downloaded a few zip files from simtel onto a floppy and I am going to try to check the processor before I go any further, though. I will also try to run a hardware detections - at least for my own records.

Rockster2u had written that after formatting: You will probably need to pull drivers off the Internet

Which drivers will need to be pulled?