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HDDs, Partitions and Swap Files

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Christer, 2002/12/20.

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  1. 2002/12/20
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I´ve been thinking about what I´ve heard and read about Swap Files / Page Files and HDDs / Partitions.

    One opinion is that if you don´t have two physical HDDs, you should leave the Swap File on the system partition. The reason should be that if you let e.g. Norton Speed Disk put it at the front of the drive it gets the quickest access.

    My HDD is an IBM 60GXP 40GB with three partitions, primary DOS C: = 20GB, logical D: = 10GB and E: = 10GB.
    The exact size of C: is slightly larger than D: + E: due to the boot records, I think.

    The design of the HDD is 2 disks, 4 heads.

    Am I right in assuming that the disks are double sided with one head on each side?

    Allowing for approximations, am I right in assuming that C: occupies both sides of the first disk, D: occupies one side of the second disk and E: occupies the other side of the second disk?

    If the above is correct wouldn´t access to the Swap File be just as quick on D:?
    Would it possibly be quicker since it would use a separate head?

    I see at least one benefit, you´ll not be imaging the Swap File when you make Ghost copies of your system.

    I´m at present time using WinME but will install WinXP in the near future, would the considerations differ?



    Thanks for Your time!

    Christer :confused:
     
    Christer,
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  2. 2002/12/20
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive

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    I will says this first. You may get so many different opinions here that it will make your head spin.

    One opinion is that if you don´t have two physical HDDs, you should leave the Swap File on the system partition.

    That is nonsense.

    I do not know what version of Windows you are running but I will be referring to 95, 98 or ME. Even in Win3.1 you could set and put the swap file to how you wanted it.

    The swap file seems to work best when set to a fixed minimum size and put on a partition other then C:

    I have 98 SE with the swap file on E: and set to a min of 400meg. Been there since May of this year and no grief from it whatsoever.

    It does work better yet if you can get it on another drive on the 2nd controler.

    The reason should be that if you let e.g. Norton Speed Disk put it at the front of the drive it gets the quickest access.

    I agree to letting Norton put it at the front of the partition. It is then always in the same place and Windows does not have to go looking fo it.

    The Swap file is something that can be experimented with to find what setting(s) and where it is set to find what works best for the system.

    Speaking of Norton Speed disk. Either It or Windows Defrag should be used. Not both. I use SPD just to get he swap file to the front of the partiton and then use Defrag thereafter.

    Bottom line;

    Work with the swap file and set it the way that it works best for YOU

    BillyBob
     
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  4. 2002/12/20
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Thanks for Your reply!

    You´ve basically said what I wanted to hear.

    Do You or anyone else know if I´ve understood the design of the HDD correctly?



    Christer
     
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  5. 2002/12/20
    Zephyr

    Zephyr Inactive

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    The geometry of a hard disk is somewhat different than you have described in the utilization aspect. Please see this for a presentation of the basics.

    Cheers. :)
     
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  6. 2002/12/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Zephyr, thanks for Your reply!

    I followed Your link and read the document.

    About the read/write heads it says that they all move in unison. I understand this as each partition is contained on all four sides of the two disks, beginning with C: outermost and then D: and E:.
    Is that correct?

    I know of an old HDD of some 1-1.5 GB laying around. Would You recommend that I add this to my hardware and use it for the Swap File only?

    I have the HDD as primary master, the CDRW as secondary master and the DVD as secondary slave.
    This means that the small HDD would become primary slave.

    Which file system would be best for the Swap File, FAT32 or FAT16?
    When I go to WinXP and NTFS, should I leave the Page File on a FAT partitioned HDD?

    If the small HDD should fail, will Windows create a Swap File on the large HDD automatically?



    Regards,
    Christer (who knows he´s asking too many questions) :eek:
     
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  7. 2002/12/21
    Zephyr

    Zephyr Inactive

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    Yes, you are correct; each partition is indeed contained on all platters of the drive. The outermost edge is the starting point and the first sector belongs to the Master Boot record (MBR) and the File Table. Then comes the C drive partition followed by any other partitions you have chosen to create, in alphabetical order according to convention.

    As to your old HDD of 1 Gig + -, yes, it would make an excellent drive to contain your Paging file. I would go one further and locate the TIF directory there as well. I like to keep boot disk writes down to the very minimum for many reasons.

    Installing the old drive as Primary Slave is correct. With the advent of Intellegent BIOS, the drives will operate very well in that configuration and the burner will continue to operate well also.

    Given the size of your old drive, I recommend formatting it to FAT32 and leaving it that way even when you install XP on the Master drive later. That will give you more flexibility of usage later if you decide to use it for something else.

    If the old drive should fail, the OS will immediately create a Paging file on the boot drive and the Browser will automatically revert the TIF's directory to the boot drive also.

    Now that you have had the appetizer , perhaps you are ready for the Main Course on Hard Drives.

    Cheers. :)
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/22
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  8. 2002/12/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the information!

    You´ve confused me a bit though:

    Installing the old drive as Secondary Slave is correct.

    You mean Primary Slave or have I missed something?

    My primary HDD is an IBM Deskstar 60GXP. It spins at 7,200 rpm and Average Seek Time is 8.5 ms.
    The old one is a Seagate ST31276A. It spins at 4.500 rpm and Average Seek Time is 12.5 ms.
    Is the lower performance significant or will my system benefit from it anyway?

    Do I have to edit the register to move the TIF directory or can I just cut and paste?

    Christer :confused:
     
    Christer,
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  9. 2002/12/22
    Zephyr

    Zephyr Inactive

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    :eek: I'm sorry for the confusion I caused by typing incorrectly. Of course, as you know, I meant to say Primary but somehow the process didn't carry through. I think my secondary brain is flawed sometimes. ;) One more point, be sure to check that the existing paging file is not still present on the boot drive after you have asked for it to be moved. If it is, manually delete it. Sometimes it is stranded there and you will lose the drive space needlessly.

    You'll not have any problem pairing those drives, nor would you ordinarily notice any improvement even if the drives were on different channels since we're only talking fractional seconds here. The main benefit is reducing boot drive activity and preventing Paging file fragmentation.

    As for moving the TIF directory, merely right click the IE icon > Properties > Settings > Move Folder > and highlight the drive and OK out.

    :)
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/22
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  10. 2002/12/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Okey, I´ve got it, I think!

    Now I´m ready for the Main Course!



    Thanks,
    Christer :cool:
     
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  11. 2002/12/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    One last (I think) question:

    The old Seagate is formatted as one single partition in FAT32 and set Active as Primary DOS. After that action, nothing was installed on it.

    When I add it to my hardware, should I start from the WinME boot disk and run FDISK to repartition the Seagate without setting as Active and reformat , before trying to restart from C:?

    My current drive letters are; C: primary active, D: and E: logical, F: CD-RW and G: DVD.

    After adding the Seagate will they be; C: primary active on IBM, D: Seagate, E: and F: logical on IBM, G: CD-RW and H: DVD?

    Just wanting to know what to expect!



    Christer :)
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/22
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  12. 2002/12/22
    Zephyr

    Zephyr Inactive

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    It's not necessary to change the status of the drive. Plug it in and don't give it another thought. It'll do fine as is. You'll only have one plug in there so no problem getting the wrong one.

    Your other comments are correct. You can change the drive designations in XP, but I'm not sure about ME. The only reason would be if you have some program installed presently on either the D or E drive, it may be affected by the new lineup created. Otherwise I would advise leaving them alone.

    :)
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/22
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  13. 2002/12/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I have all my applications on C:.
    D: is used for backing up documents and other folders.
    E: contains a Ghost Image of C: which I also copy to CDs, just in case of the big one.
    I´m only using some 25% of C: so I´m still comfortable without compressing the Ghost Image.

    I didn´t mean that I was to manually change the drive letters.
    What I wanted You to confirm is that drive letters are automatically assigned to primary partitions on both physical HDDs first, then to the logical partitions on both HDDs and finally to the other hardware.

    In my case this would mean; primary on IBM = C:, primary on Seagate = D:, logicals on IBM = E: and F:, CD-RW = G: and DVD = H.

    Reading Your post again and thinking twice, I believe that You did confirm that!?



    Thanks,
    Christer :)
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/22
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  14. 2002/12/22
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive

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    The old Seagate is formatted as one single partition in FAT32 and set Active as Primary DOS

    I have all my applications on C:.
    D: is used for backing up documents and other folders.
    E: contains a Ghost Image of C: which I also copy to CDs, just in case of the big one


    If you already have 3 partitions C: D: E: on the first dirve you need to get the Primary partition off of thr 2nd drive.

    Other wise it may ( will ) change the first drive to C: E: F:

    BillyBob
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/22
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  15. 2002/12/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Can I tell FDISK to partition the Seagate as extended with one logical but NO PRIMARY?
    Would that keep the old drive letters on the IBM and make the Seagate F:, the CD-RW G: and the DVD H:?

    As You said earlier, my head is starting to spin!



    Christer :eek:
     
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  16. 2002/12/22
    Zephyr

    Zephyr Inactive

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    I understood what you meant about the drive letters. The order was correct the way you listed them, given your present setup. I just mentioned the part about changing them in case you were considering that.

    And furthermore; yes, if you want to preserve your present drive letter designations and avoid bumping them around, then repartition the Seagate like you said. You can use FDISK or PQ Partition Magic if you have it. Then Format it of course.

    cheers. :)
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/22
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  17. 2002/12/23
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I think I´ll do that to preserve the present drive letters of the IBM. Then, if I decide to remove the Seagate, only the drive letters for the CD-RW and DVD will be changed.

    Thanks all, for Your assistance!



    Christer :cool:
     
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  18. 2002/12/23
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

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    There is also a way to stop the CDROM (S) from changing also.

    Go to the device manager/CDROM and set the drive( s) to higher letters.

    I have mine set to S:

    That way messing with HD partitions does not effect the CDROM.


    BillyBob
     
    Last edited: 2002/12/23
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  19. 2002/12/23
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Yes, I´ve seen that recommendation eslewhere too and it´s possible that I´ll do that as well.

    Another possibility is that I´ll do nothing since I´ve also been given the recommendation to leave my system as it is. The changes I´m considering aren´t worth the trouble!?



    Christer
     
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  20. 2002/12/23
    Zephyr

    Zephyr Inactive

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    I tend to agree that it isn't worth fooling with from a practical standpoint. It would make sense if you were having trouble running Scandisk or Defrag and needed to reduce boot drive activity. Also it is an excellent way to extend the History file reach in GoBack since it reduces the junk files that the GoBack cache has to track.

    Then of course its good for academic reasons so you can learn enough to be dangerous. :D

    Good luck,
     
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  21. 2002/12/23
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Well, I´ve learned a lot from our discussion but maybe I´m not quite up to being dangerous just yet.

    I think that the old Seagate stays in the drawer for now but some day if the problems You mention become a reality, then I know of a possible remedy for them.



    Thanks,
    Christer :cool:
     
    Christer,
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