Draining resources after an hour

Baysix · 2004/09/17

Help - When I turn my PC on the system resources are at 92% - within 1 hour they are down to 51%. I have run virus scans, I have done selective startup, I have run scan disk. Can anyone help.

merlin · 2004/09/17

Hello baysix,
- with what application are you seeing resources 92 % after a boot ?
- what applications start on boot-up ? I hope not Fast Find amongst others.
- this is a shortage of 16 bit reserved memory - any Windows based app
like scandisk will not help to solve the problem
regards

Maverick · 2004/09/17

Baysix said:

Help - When I turn my PC on the system resources are at 92% - within 1 hour they are down to 51%. I have run virus scans, I have done selective startup, I have run scan disk. Can anyone help.
Click to expand...

Baysix that is a very typical symptom for Win98 users. When I was running Win98 as my only OS, i had too had the same problems. You could try adding more RAM if your MB supports it, but other than that, there is not much you can do except for upgrading to a new PC and installing W2K or XP.

merlin · 2004/09/17

Adding more RAM, as Maverick suggests, is no answer to this problem.
regards

WhitPhil · 2004/09/17

Agreed.

Are you getting Out of Memory or Low on System Resource messages?

If not, resources are there to be used. Having a larger number does not translate to better performance.

Resources FAQ

Having said that, there is also a possibility that the drain is caused by SpyWare.

Download and run SpyBot and allow it to remove what it finds.

Baysix · 2004/09/17

Thank you

Thank you very much for all of your help. The answer to what application I am using - I check the performance tab under my computer to look at system resources.

BillyBob · 2004/09/17

that is a very typical symptom for Win98 users.
Click to expand...

That is not a typical symptom for 98 .

Just have to control what is running.

Also a lot of older prgrams DID NOT cleanup after themselves very well which can cause more problems than Windows ever even thought of.

And due to the above sometimes Windows needed to be restarted before running something else. Again that is not a Windows problem. That is poorly written software.

BillyBob

goddez1 · 2004/09/17

Seems like a good place to put some past clippit/snippit I picked up and kept:

Authored by Fred Langa:

I get a lot of mail like this: "Fred, I'm running Win98 SE with 128MB of RAM and I notice that my 'system resources' level is constantly draining to a low level. It starts at 70 percent and goes as low as 14 percent with only 1 or 2 apps running. Is this something to be concerned about? I've found some freeware apps that promise to help: Freeware Plus -- memory management tools. I would appreciate an article on this subject, along with recommended remedies, if appropriate." -- John Byers

I certainly can sympathize with John, and you probably can too. No matter how much physical RAM you have in your system, it's still possible to run out of System Resources. When that happens, one of three things occurs:

1. You may get an error message such as "Out of memory" or "Not enough memory to display completely" or "System Resources are running low. "
2. Or, your system may begin to behave weirdly by doing things such as opening blank or garbled windows, refusing to respond to keystrokes or mouse clicks, and the like.
3. Or, your system may simply crash and burn.

In each case, your only remedy is a reboot. Hope you saved your data recently!

So what's really going on? What can you do to prevent it from happening? And do those freeware apps that John mentioned (and others like them) really help? Let's take it a step at a time:

The Mythical "System Resources "

To begin with, there's no single thing called "System Resources." It actually means different things depending on how it's used. Most generally, it refers to all the components of your PC that let it do what it does.

But the "System Resources" that John's letter mentioned are two very specific memory areas inside Windows: User Resources and GDI (Graphics Device Interface ) Resources. You can think of these areas as scratchpads -- actually, internal tables and pointers -- that Windows uses to keep track of running applications.

The User area contains information about all the apps and windows currently running, including dialog boxes, the controls in dialog boxes, and so on. Every DLL, in fact, your apps use gets its own data area in the User section. Loosely speaking, the more things you ask your computer to do at once, the more heavily used your User area becomes.

The GDI area keeps track of the things Windows uses to draw what you see on screen: there are things called pens, brushes, fonts, bitmaps, regions, and palettes, for example. Roughly speaking, the more graphical objects you have on-screen -- windows, icons, wallpapers, etc. -- the more heavily used your GDI area becomes.

Both resource areas are of a fixed size regardless of how much RAM you have -- and that's the problem. If you run too many things at once or have too many graphical objects displayed at once, you can deplete the User or GDI area. When that happens, you get the error messages mentioned earlier, or weird behavior or a crash.

The Good News

With properly-coded applications (that's a major caveat), it's actually fairly hard to run out of System Resources. I just tried an experiment, for example, on my main Win98SE system here: I opened (as normal windows) Internet Explorer, my Office 2000 suite (Access, Outlook, Word, Excel, PowerPoint and FrontPage), Lotus Organizer, an MS-DOS window, and Eudora (a notorious resource hog), plus a couple of small "tray" apps I always have running. It's hard to imagine a single person needing to run much more than that at the same time, but Windows could have done lots more -- I still had 28 percent system resources free!

(And by the way: You can thank Windows Magazine -- the predecessor of WinMag.com -- for this ability of Windows to handle so many apps with ease. You see, during the early beta testing of what was to become the original Windows 95, the folks at WinMag discovered that the new OS retained the tiny, inadequate System Resource areas of the old Windows 3.1. WinMag complained to Microsoft, in print, and Microsoft responded by making Windows 95's System Resource areas far larger than they'd planned to. It's a little-known fact, but literally every person who has ever used any version of Windows 9x has benefited from the aggressive testing and reporting of Windows Magazine!)

The Bad News

As you run apps, open and close windows, and so on, various User and GDI resources get allocated. When you shut down an application or when part of an app is no longer needed, its resources are supposed to be released, freeing up space in the User and GDI areas for use by other apps.

However, in poorly-coded apps, some of the resources used by an app may not be released. Over time, more and more resources may be marked as "in use" even when they're really not. In a sense, bad programming treats the User and GDI areas as roach motels -- resources check in, but they don't check out: Eventually, there's not enough available resource memory space to continue working, and you get an "out of memory" error message or crash.

In fairness to programmers, in a complex app there can be thousands of items to track. When programming for Win9x was a new thing, many apps were truly awful about releasing resources. In fact, this was one of the reasons why Win95 got its bad reputation for instability: It was actually "resource leaks" in various badly-coded applications that often were the cause of Win95 crashes.

Win98 is better at cleaning up after sloppy programs; it can recover "leaked" or "orphaned" resources, up to a point. Windows NT and 2000 largely do away with the limited resource areas, and thus are intrinsically more resistant to problems of this sort. Plus, programmers and programming tools have gotten better at preventing leaks. But resource leaks still happen, and a very leaky app or a large number of apps with small leaks can still wreak havoc.

Finding Resource Leaks

Here are the official Microsoft instructions for finding what they generically call "memory leaks" in Win98. (Other versions of Windows have similar procedures.)

1. Restart your computer, and do not start any programs.

2. Right-click My Computer, click Properties, and then click the Performance tab. Note the percentage number next to System Resources. This is the amount of free system resources before you run any programs.

3. Start one of your programs, use it as you would normally for 15 or more minutes, and then quit the program.

4. Right-click My Computer, click Properties, and then click the Performance tab. Note the percentage number next to System Resources, and compare it to the number you noted in step 2. If your system resources are substantially less than they were previously, your program may be creating a memory leak. To resolve this issue, contact the manufacturer of your program to inquire about the availability of a fix for this issue. To work around this issue, restart your computer after you quit the program.

Note that step 4 refers to resources that rebound to a level "substantially less" than before: In some apps that use shared components (DLLs and such that perform common functions) some of the shared components deliberately may be left in memory in anticipation of reuse: The program designers may use a little space in the User or GDI area as a kind of cache to speed the next use of the shared component. So, seeing a loss of a few percent of resources after running an app does not by itself mean you have a leak.

But a large drop almost always means there's a leak. Likewise, if you repeatedly open and close an app and find that your resources steadily decline and do not recover, this too means you have a leak: The components are not being reused.

Also note in step 4 that Microsoft correctly attributes this behavior to the applications, not the OS; the problem arises within the leaky application, and really can only be fixed there. (Ironically, some Microsoft applications leak, too; but the OS can't fix what's broken in an application even if it's from the same company.)

This means the only true cure for memory leaks is a rewritten or patched version of the offending application: The programmers have to find out what memory isn't being properly released, and correct the problem -- plug the leak.

Other Tools and Fixes

There are many, many utilities, both free and low-cost, that purport to fix memory leaks caused by other applications. I've been trying a pile of them for the last couple weeks, and in Part Two of this column I'll tell you how these optimizers work, what they actually do, and whether they're worthwhile or not.

Meanwhile, you can begin tracking your own System Memory use to see if you're experiencing resource leaks. You can use the Microsoft procedure, above; or, if you want to get really serious about tracking System Resources, there's an even better way:

It's a very simple utility called Resource Meter. It may already be installed on your system in Start/Programs/Accessories/System Tools. (If it's not there, you easily can install it by clicking to Start/Settings/Control Panel and then clicking on the Add/Remove Programs applet. Within the applet, choose Windows Setup; scroll to System Tools and then click on Details. Select System Resource Meter and click on OK. Depending on how your system is set up, you may need to insert your Windows CD; if so, you'll be prompted at the right time.)

When you run the Resource Meter, you'll see three bar charts: System Resources, User Resources and GDI Resources. In this case "System Resources" is really shorthand for either the User or GDI resources, whichever is lower: The overall "System Resource" bar simply shows you whichever resource pool (User or GDI) is lowest at any given moment.

If you minimize the Resource Meter, it installs itself in your System Tray, by the clock: It becomes a tiny bar graph that shows you available System Resources (again, this is simply the lower or either User or GDI resources) in near real-time. If you want more detail, you can hover your mouse over the tiny bar-chart icon, or click on the icon to open the full-sized chart display.

I created a shortcut to the Resource Meter (C:\WINDOWS\ Rsrcmtr.exe ) and dragged the shortcut to my Startup folder: C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp . This way, the Resource Meter runs every time Windows starts.

Over time, you'll learn what constitutes acceptable resources for your particular system and apps. (When your resources get low enough, you'll sometimes get a warning from Windows suggesting that you close some apps in order to recover resources.)

Some people worry if their resources drop into the 70 percent; others fret if they go below 50 percent. I think these fears are left over from the early days of Windows: In normal use, my resources fluctuate between 30 to 60 percent free all day long, and that's fine. I also know that I can get all the way down to low single-digit percentages of available resources before I actually run into resource problems. Your mileage may vary, but I generally don't worry about resources at all until or unless my Resource Meter shows me dropping into the 10 percent range or so.

So keep an eye on your meter: If your resources drop steadily during the day, you may have a leak. With careful use of the Resource Meter, you may be able to identify which app is causing the leak, and then visit the vendor's home page to see if there's a fix.

In the next column, we'll look at utilities that try to fix leaks. Meanwhile, what are your experiences with resource leaks? What apps have you found to be leaky? What tools or techniques do you use to plug the leaks or recover the resources?
Click to expand...

-------------------

Some possible useful information at these links

A program that "leaks memory" is a program that does not release your computer's system resources (or memory) correctly. This can lead to your computer's system resources becoming so low that your computer may become unstable. If you restart your computer, all of your system resources should be available.
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q185/8/32.asp?FR=1

For compatibility reasons, Windows does not free system resources abandoned by Windows 3.1-based programs until all Windows 3.1-based programs have been closed. Only when there are no Windows 3.1-based programs running can Windows safely release abandoned system resources.
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q146/4/18.asp?FR=1

Computer Speed and Performance May Decrease
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q259/1/61.asp?FR=1

http://support.microsoft.com/suppor...sources&rnk=9&src=DHCS_MSPSS_gn_SRCH&SPR=SDK3

http://support.microsoft.com/suppor...ources&rnk=10&src=DHCS_MSPSS_gn_SRCH&SPR=SDK3

?..If your system resources are substantially less than they were before you started the program, the program may be creating a memory leak. To resolve this issue, contact the manufacturer of your program to inquire about the availability of a fix for this issue. To work around this issue, restart your computer after you quit the program.
http://support.microsoft.com/suppor...esources&rnk=6&src=DHCS_MSPSS_gn_SRCH&SPR=W95

System resources are areas of memory that are used by the input manager (USER) and the graphic display interface manager (GDI) for keeping track of all of the windows that are open in a session and for drawing objects on the screen. Stored in memory in these heaps and the size of each heap is fixed.

16-bit User heap (64K)
32-bit User window heap (2MB)
32-bit User menu heap (2MB)
16-bit GDI heap (64K)
32-bit GDI heap (2MB)

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q190/2/17.ASP

Computer Speed and Performance May Decrease
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q259/1/61.ASP

also
http://www.wintrouble.net/discus/messages/58/2637.html

==Hello Baysix==========
How's that for nfo overload? You ought to be able to find something useful in there somewhere. What you are attempting to do is not a "click and go task ". This will take some "sticktoittiveness ".

To sum up...for starters....

>reduce your startups, altough this maynot be a startup problem but something that happens from opening and closing something repeatedly and each time it does this it steals a little bit more of your resources without returning them on an endtask. It's this, as yet unknown something that you'll need to track down.

>do some homework; explore your support sites, looking for more current versions, patches or updates for any applications and devices you do run.

BillyBob · 2004/09/18

THANK YOU goddez1

I have not read through your reply completely. ( am printing it out )

But it sure looks good. And so far I see it as pointing to a COMBINATION of the OS, Software( poorly written ) and USER( trying to run too much or the wrong combination.

BillyBob

BillyBob · 2004/09/18

>do some homework; explore your support sites, looking for more current versions, patches or updates for any applications and devices you do run.
Click to expand...

Like it or not that also applys to Windows XP.

BB

Maverick · 2004/09/21

I can't believe some of the things you say here. It really makes me wonder where you get your conclusions from.

BillyBob said:

That is not a typical symptom for 98 .

Just have to control what is running.

Also a lot of older prgrams DID NOT cleanup after themselves very well which can cause more problems than Windows ever even thought of.
Click to expand...

It absolutely is a typical symptom for all Win9.x based OSes have the same resource limitation inherent to the 16-bit software backward compatiblity.

On a brand new Dell system, with 256 MB RAM, I have experience many sluggish performances even with only just a couple of applications running.

BillyBob said:

And due to the above sometimes Windows needed to be restarted before running something else. Again that is not a Windows problem. That is poorly written software.

BillyBob
Click to expand...

Do you understand anything about how Win98 manages memory and system resources? It's not always just a case of "poorly written software" Billybob.

Unbelievable. Sometimes people will just post whatever they "think" is the correct answer based on their limited experience when they haven't spent one minute studying up on a major OS.

Maverick · 2004/09/21

BillyBob said:

Like it or not that also applys to Windows XP.

BB
Click to expand...

Boy that's news to me. So since I am a Win2K user, that must mean I can no longer get my updates.

BillyBob · 2004/09/21

Do you understand anything about how Win98 manages memory and system resources? It's not always just a case of "poorly written software" Billybob.

Unbelievable. Sometimes people will just post whatever they "think" is the correct answer based on their limited experience when they haven't spent one minute studying up on a major OS.
Click to expand...

Oh, but I do understand about Windows memory management. It is Pi** poor if the USER does not take control.

And if you THINK my answer are based on what I THINK You had bestTHINK again

I have spent many hours ( even days ) testing various combinations of programs running and/or loading at startup. And the results were;

" If BillyBob as the User Maintained control of same he had NO PROBLEMS. "

And like it or not " The same does apply to Windows XP." I was having problems with what seemed to be an unstable XP Pro. In doing some checking I found that some software kept putting itself BACK INTO THE STARTUP GROUP after I ran it. That STINKS. I Finally got that stopped. And once I did I have had NO problem for the last 6/7 months.

And if you think my experience is limited try this on for size.

The HD that I am running on right now was originally formated for Win95. Is been to 98FE. 98SE. and now Win XP PRO and HAS NOT been formated inbetween.

And I would be very willing to bet that better than 1/2 of the members on this BBS will say that " THAT it either can not or should not be done. " And actually I will agree with them.

But I DID it and it WORKED just fine. BUT. I did have to make sure that that I did not upgrade to fix problems.

Oh I forgot. This 80gig HD is a COPY of the previous 40gig HD.

Do you still think my experience is limited.

Have a nice evening
BillyBob

BillyBob · 2004/09/21

Another thing that the USER could do to help memory problems in 95 and 98.

That was the SWAP FILE ( or Virtual Memory ) Left to Windows it SMELLS BADLY.

But if the USER took control and set to a decent FIXED SIZE at the FRONT of a partition other than C: it worked much better.

What was even better yet was to have it on a partition ( or small HD ) ALL BY ITSELF.

DO you still wish to say I have no experience ?

Bed time for me
Goodnight

Rockster2U · 2004/09/21

Good Night BillyBob.
A good rest might clear your System Resources.

Have to agree with Maverick re: typical Win98 behavior.
And, between The Langa List and Ann's comments, I don't know what else needs to be said. You can install one of the many memory recovery utilities that will free additional resources when you go below a fixed threshold, but unless your crashing or locking up, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

BillyBob · 2004/09/22

A good rest might clear your System Resources.
Click to expand...

I never had a problem with resources. One reason is because a Friend advised me ( even before I installed 95 or 98 ) on how to Control things so that the problem did not come up. And I did not try to make a 1 ton truck carry a 3 ton load. ( thanks to the advice of that Friend. )

But if I did the FIRST thing I did was to go in and check to see what I may have done to cause it.

OK. I may agree that it may be a typical Windows problem if left uncontroled.

But. The USER can control it. And I found that anytime it got out of control it was usually due to something that me as the USER did.

The Langa List and Ann's comments,

I am not 100% sure but that list ( or one similiar ) may well be where I got A LOT of help in learning to control Windows.

And I firmly stand on the fact that if we do not control what loads at startup it can create problems for Windows XP. Because I have found that when XP does get a bit crazy ( and it does/has ) It is USUALLY due to something that has snuck back into the startup group. And the newer software IS GREAT FOR THAT Even though I check DON'T do that.

In seems that EVERY new piece of software thinks it needs to load at startup BY DEFAULT.

And last but sure not least. When my experience is questioned just because I present a different side of the story or say right straight out that " Windows is not to blame for everything " I believe I have a right to defend myself.

Problems are not always Windows problems. Quite often they are a Combination of Windows, hardware, software and user. And the wrong ( or improperly set up ) combination can KILL ( or make it damned awfull sick ) the best Windows setup.

Y'all have a fine Day.
BillyBob

Rockster2U · 2004/09/22

No arguement re: limiting programs running on startup. And, I think we'd all agree that a lot of poorly written software had problems re: releasing dll files and "shutting down" upon closing a program. Yes, these are user "controllable" in most instances, however, for the less experienced it may be wise to install a memory manager to force a release after falling below an acceptable threshold. Again, this is not a big deal unless the computer in question is locking up. Perhaps its more of curiousity thing with Baysix who has just discovered that he/she can see what the available System Resources are.

Final thought - yes, its all in the setup - done right, 98 runs like a dream. Done wrong - fill in the blank yourself

BillyBob · 2004/09/22

Rockster2U

Thank you.

for the less experienced it may be wise to install a memory manager to force a release after falling below an acceptable threshold
Click to expand...

True. But the User has to know/learn how to set it up properly in order for it to work properly. We may not be able to ( I could not ) leave it at default settings. I tried one in 98FE.

And, I think we'd all agree that a lot of poorly written software had problems re: releasing dll files and "shutting down" upon closing a program.
Click to expand...

I agree for sure. And that is where the user needs to pay attention to what he/she had been running. And that seems apply to some of the newer software just as much as some older software.

Final thought - yes, its all in the setup - done right, 98 runs like a dream. Done wrong -
Click to expand...

Again. Thank you.

BillyBob

Maverick · 2004/09/22

BillyBob said:

I have spent many hours ( even days ) testing various combinations of programs running and/or loading at startup.
Click to expand...

Obviously whatever you learned in your limited capacity did not sink in much, otherwise you would realize how poorly all Win9.x based OS manage memory and system resources. Instead you go around the board making blanket statements that don't amount to much raving about how great Win 98 is and claiming WinXP is the same as Win98. Unbelieveable, you really are a piece of work.

BillyBob · 2004/09/22

you would realize how poorly all Win9.x based OS manage memory and system resources.
Click to expand...

That may well be true I do not know as I never had a resource probem because as the user I paid attention and controlled what was going on. And paid atttention to what was loading at bootup.

Such things as.

Making sure that program XYZ. executable DID NOT load at bootup. If it did I would have problems. And XYZ had a NASTY habit of putting itself back in.

If I ran program A then B there might be problems. Usually required a Windows restart. But if I ran B then A there were no problems.

The next hardest problem was convincing other household members to do the same.

BillyBob

Log in or Sign up

Draining resources after an hour

Baysix Inactive Thread Starter

merlin Inactive

Maverick Inactive

merlin Inactive

WhitPhil Inactive

Baysix Inactive Thread Starter

BillyBob Inactive

goddez1 Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

Maverick Inactive

Maverick Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

Rockster2U Geek Member

BillyBob Inactive

Rockster2U Geek Member

BillyBob Inactive

Maverick Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

Draining resources after an hour

Baysix Inactive Thread Starter

merlin Inactive

Maverick Inactive

merlin Inactive

WhitPhil Inactive

Baysix Inactive Thread Starter

BillyBob Inactive

goddez1 Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

Maverick Inactive

Maverick Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

Rockster2U Geek Member

BillyBob Inactive

Rockster2U Geek Member

BillyBob Inactive

Maverick Inactive

BillyBob Inactive

Share This Page

Useful Searches