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Disk Drefragment Utility?

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by SteveS, 2003/12/20.

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  1. 2003/12/20
    SteveS

    SteveS Inactive Thread Starter

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    i hate using windows xp's its useless, it leaves massive gaps and u have to run it over and over again 2 improve it slightly!

    is there a good free defrag tool out there?

    cheers
     
    SteveS,
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  2. 2003/12/20
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    PeteC,
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  4. 2003/12/20
    SteveS

    SteveS Inactive Thread Starter

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    hum that leaves gaps too!
     
    SteveS,
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  5. 2003/12/20
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Hi Steve!

    Some of these gaps are supposed to be there.

    One gap is the space reserved by the operating system for the Master File Table. This represents 12.5% of disk size and the reason for this is to see to that the MFT does not get fragmented. This is important since the MFT can not be defragmented.

    The reserved space is located somewhere in the middle of the drive and the operating system does not allow any writing in that space other than the MFT.

    Depending on which type of file(s), the defragmenter decides to put the file(s) on either side of the MFT space.

    Other gaps can be considered "slack space" due to the operating system assuming that changes will be made to these files.

    The older defragmenters were more like packing utilities that defragged and put the files in more or less a random order. The more modern defragmenters are a bit smarter.

    Windows XP actually defragments on the fly in the sense that it relocates program files to make the running of the programs more efficient.

    Well, that´s what they say, at least.

    In the above I assume that the file system is NTFS (FAT32 does not have a MFT).

    Christer

    Edited:

    I use Norton SpeedDisk and it leaves a nice and tidy disk but if that is a good thing is up for debate.
    It claims to arrange the files according to usage, thus optimizing the system and Windows XP itself claims to do the same.
    I am, however, not convinced that the two agree on what is "optimized ".
     
    Last edited: 2003/12/20
    Christer,
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  6. 2003/12/21
    SteveS

    SteveS Inactive Thread Starter

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    ah rite.

    i can agree with what u say there 100% as on my non O/S drive its all packed up nicely!

    Cheers for the help!
     
    SteveS,
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  7. 2003/12/21
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    You´re welcome ...... :) ...... glad I could be of assistance!

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  8. 2003/12/21
    Newt

    Newt Inactive

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    I am, however, not convinced that the two agree on what is "optimized ".

    Christer - they do not agree and if you defrag /w Norton, the onboard app starts to change things immediately. For this reason, I no longer run my Norton Defrag even though I like the way it does things a little better. They just don't stay.
     
    Newt,
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  9. 2003/12/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Hi Newt,
    thanks for confirming my suspicion!

    I have actually only run SpeedDisk twice on my XP installation. When it was fresh (in June) as a preparation for Ghosting and after three months for re-Ghosting. It´s time now again and the fragmentation level according to SpeedDisk is 7% and according to the XP-defragmenter, 5%.

    I don´t believe that a fragmentation level of 5-7% is serious but since I´ve heard/read that NTFS is more sensitive to fragmentation, I´m not sure.

    Which defragmenter do You use?
    The XP-defragmenter or another utility?

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  10. 2003/12/22
    Johanna

    Johanna Inactive Alumni

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    My experience has been the same as Newt's. I like Speed Disk better, but XP's own defrag makes a more permanent clean up. I don't use Win Doctor much, anymore, either, because it has become redundant with sfc and SR.

    I probably won't bother installing Norton Utilities, either, the next time I reformat. Symantec- are you listening? You are losing me... and my money...

    Johanna
     
    Johanna,
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  11. 2003/12/22
    Newt

    Newt Inactive

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    I´ve heard/read that NTFS is more sensitive to fragmentation

    Christer - wherever you heard that, you should stop listening to other stuff from that same place. NTFS will continue to run fine at frag levels that will cause Fat32 to crash and burn.

    I am now using only the version of diskkeeper that ships with XP as the 'built in' defrag app. Does fine for me.
     
    Newt,
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  12. 2003/12/22
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Well, when trying to learn one hear so many things that the brain spins inside the skull ...... :eek: ...... but I have learned to not believe anything without getting a "second opinion" from this place!

    I have been working on a XP computer which only has the "built in" defrag. It seemed to me like it didn´t work too well. I had the same thought as Steve but I have actually learned that it is quite okey, not one of the best but okey.

    I´ll try to do it Your way and use it for a while.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  13. 2003/12/22
    Newt

    Newt Inactive

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    Christer - the more you use the XP defrag app, the better job it does for your system. The same folks do make a fancier app but it ain't free. :D

    As to NTFS & fragmentation - while I do not recommend it, systems will usually run without barking at you until the drive is 99% full and very, very badly fragged. However, at that point they cannot be defragged unless you clean some stuff off. It often behaves like a NiCad or Lithium battery and works OK until it just quits.

    I absolutely do not recommend ever letting a drive get to 90% full. I feel that at 80% it's time to either do a major cleanup or get a new drive.
     
    Newt,
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  14. 2003/12/23
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff

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    Newt,

    I have noticed that it seems to not bother defragging some files on the first run(s). They still show in the fragmentation report.
    (Those files are not among the ones that can not be defragged.)
    SpeedDisk on the other hand seems to do them all.
    Maybe the "built in" defragger gets them after a few more runs?

    With one exception, I have never come above 50% of a drive (partition). The exception is the partition where I store my Ghost Images. It became something like 85% full and I had an Image that didn´t pass the Integrity Check.
    It can be a coincidence because before creating a new Image, I delete the oldest one and defrag to consolidate free space. It could have happened as a result of defragging.

    Now, that specific partition is formated FAT32 because I have a feeling that it had something to do with NTFS and invading the reserved MFT space when the partition gets full by only a few but large files.
    In addition to that, on FAT32 free space seems to really get consolidated by defragging but not so on NTFS.

    Christer
     
    Last edited: 2003/12/23
    Christer,
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  15. 2003/12/23
    RayH

    RayH Inactive

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    I use a few disk maintainence programs for my XP system: Easy Cleaner by Toni Arts, Window Washer, and Diskkepper Lite. I don't have any problems with my drive.

    Do things have to be "perfect "? Not for me. I maintain the drive every week or two and have no problems. Using Diskkepper Lite the first time takes a bit of time. After that, it just takes me a couple of minutes.
     
    RayH,
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  16. 2003/12/27
    BRH

    BRH Inactive

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    Defragger and Goback 3

    I use Goback 3 with my WinXP Pro system and would not be without it. Unfortunately, every defragging utility I've ever tried (even pre-WinXP) trashes Goback's history file, making Goback temporarily useless. Even though they all claim to have an option that can isolate the Goback history file from the defrag, they still trash it.

    I would be extremely interested in hearing of any defragging utility that works as advertised when it comes to leaving Goback's history file alone.

    Thanks!
     
    BRH,
    #15
  17. 2003/12/28
    jmatt

    jmatt Well-Known Member

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  18. 2003/12/28
    Newt

    Newt Inactive

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    BRH - I have GoBack 3.1 and use the XP built in defragger. I haven't notices the problems you mention with the history file.
     
    Newt,
    #17
  19. 2003/12/31
    PeteC

    PeteC SuperGeek Staff

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    Have to agree with Newt - GoBack 3.2 and Diskeeper Pro and no (known) problems with the history files.
     
    PeteC,
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  20. 2003/12/31
    ZZZ7

    ZZZ7 Inactive

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    I've read that installing the GOBACKIO.BIN file on another partition [if available],,,,,,,when installing Goback ,helps quite a bit in keeping history!
     
    ZZZ7,
    #19
  21. 2004/01/01
    Paul

    Paul Inactive

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    OK, whilst we all have opinions... Hear's mine :D

    Diskeeper 8.0 seems to defrag 100% most of the time. PerfectDisk 6.0.x works well although I'm a little concerned that if you run the oppositions defragger (AKA Diskeeper) after, it finds the drive with a fair bit of fragmentation and vice versa!

    It depends which camp you're from as to which is better I guess?

    The included Diskeeper version in XP works good enough in my experiments.

    Cleaning the registry and cleaning the systems of temporary and other "clutter" files is probably more important than getting tied down worrying about which defragger is better.

    Speaking of better, I recommend RegSeeker 1.35 from http://www.hoverdesk.net/freeware.htm and EasyCleaner 2.0 from http://personal.inet.fi/business/toniarts/ecleane.htm to keep that Registry clean and get rid if unnescessary files.

    These coupled with ANY defragmentation software should help to keep your system running smoothly, IMHO anyway ;)
     
    Last edited: 2004/01/01
    Paul,
    #20
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