Connecting two pcs

Hi,

I wonder what should I do to connect two pcs. I heard that that I should buy two ethernet card, a 10 m peer to peer cable, no need to buy hub and I can use Network Neighborhood. I’m using Windows 98 SE on both pcs with the distance around 10 meters.

My questions is:

1. Is above claim correct?
2. How to activate Network Neighborhood in Windows 98 SE?
3. From practical viewpoint, how to do the networking from scratch, starting from installing the NIC till transferring data between two pcs. What program to transfer the data between two pcs?
Anybody who can provide simple, practical and easy to understand step by step "how to" (incl. The url addresses where I can learn it) is much appreciated

TIA.

Yasmin

 

Yasmin,
Go to this site it should answer all your questions. Good luck.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/home-network7.htm

Houston

 

Firda Yasmin

What do you have for an Internet connection ?

Dial, DSL or Cable connection ?

If Dial up then you may be able to do as suggested.

But if DSL or Cable you will need a Router to get both on the Internet. Both will use the same Account and can both be on at the same time.

And with a Router your LAN ( Local Are Network ) and the Internet will be separated.

BillyBob

 

Hi Yasmin

- Happy New Year! -

apart from the "fully blown" network approach, there's another possibility - which is to use Direct Cable Connection... which wouldn't require extra cards etc.

The only hardware required for this is the cable itself.

You would need to have a spare port on each PC - either serial (COM) or parallel (LPT/ECP/EPP) can be used, must be same type on both PCs!

It's slower than a network but surprisingly useful, when it's running you get a window very similar to Windows Explorer, but showing you the other PC... for copying files across and so on. You don't need a program to transfer stuff across - just copy and paste.

But you can do more than that - I "serve" web pages from one PC to another using DCC, for example.

When you first connect two computers using DCC you make one the "Guest" and the other the "Host" (bit like a server) - but it's quite easy to get it working both ways simultaneously ie both computers can access each other's resources.

Speed-wise: serial DCC is slow; parallel DCC comes in three "flavours" depending upon the nature of the parallel ports you have:

old style LPT ports (like I'm using) are the slowest, I get about 40k with these (compared to the 5.5k ish off the 56k dialup); but using ECP parallel ports and the correct cabling people achieve near-ethernet speeds.

Note: the three types of parallel DCC use different types of cables... which you use depends upon whether your parallel ports are LPT, ECP or whatever.

==

You need this for DCC as well - the PCs need to learn how to talk to each other...

Control Panel > Network, you'll see a button marked "Add..." to add in the components you need. You will be asked for the W98 CD for this. When you've finished the Network Neighbourhood icon apears on your desktop.

The precise choice of components you need to add depends upon what you are using for your internet connection.

If you are interested in using DCC post back & let us know, I'll sort you out a list of components to add in...

best wishes, HJ.

 

Houston,

Thanks for the link. I trust it’s very usefull. I’ll visit it asap.

Btw, are you born and live in Houston, TX?

Billy Bob,

I’m using dial. Is it necessary to use IE for transferring data between two pcs? I think it’s just like copy, move and/or paste. Only the distance is more or less 10 meters. I can not move one pc to another only for this purpose, because the practice is on regular basis. So, I need to connect both pcs. But not to share the internet connection. Both pcs never used for internet connection.

Thanks.

Hugh Jarss,

Thanks.

It’s interesting to know that I can use cable only. Both pcs have com port and I think ECP ports (it’s actually LPT, right? Only it set to ECP in BIOS?). The problem is whether there is a computer shop that sell 10 meters cable for ECP or Com port? And how to know the correct cable for ECP parallel port?

Thanks and Happy New Year to all of you!

Cheers,

Yasmin

 

Hi Yasmin,

if you can get to a good(ish) computer shop and ask them for a suitable cable for Direct Cable Connection they should know what you are after...

...or, if you (or a friend) can use a soldering iron I can send the appropriate pin connections...

==

about parallel cables/ports:

there's an important difference between LPT ports and ECP/EPP ports - the (older) LPT ports are not bidirectional, they can only send data to a printer. The (newer) ECP/EPP ports can use the data wires in both directions.

You can set an ECP port to behave as an LPT port in the BIOS; but one of the old "real" LPT ports doesn't have the ability to receive (on the 8 data wires) so it can never behave like ECP.

But you can use LPT ports for DCC because they receive back the signals for "paper's run out" etc., there are 4 such wires. It just means that each byte gets sent in two halves - that's why it's slower - but it works fine.

If you are sure that both ends are ECP, can use all 8 wires (different wiring for the cable of course) and get the extra speed.

A good computer shop should know all about this...

==

summary: the 3 types of parallel DCC:

slow - uses the 4 wires as described above to transfer a byte in two "nybbles ". Will work with all types of parallel port with no worries. This is the kind which gives me 40k or thereabouts...

medium - uses all 8 wires, must have ECP/EPP at both ends. Can cause hardware failure of the port if one end is really an LPT! (possible - but far from likely)

fast - uses special cable which has electronics tucked away inside the plugs - must have ECP/EPP both ends - gets nearly as fast as ethernet. I don't recommend this one unless you really know what you are doing...

==

even the slower (LPT-type) parallel connection is much faster than a serial connection between COM ports

==

serial cable for DCC: if you are using COM ports, use a 6-wire connection. I mention this because DCC is the successor to DOS INTERLNK, and you could get INTERLNK to work on 3 wires only.

Some "null modem" cables are OK for this - but not all I think. Will have to check that. Or maybe someone else knows...

(many moons ago I installed Windows3.11 onto a computer over an INTERLNK, it only took about 3 hours!!)

==

OK I see you have a dialup for your internet connection, will put together a list of the components you need to add and post it soonish.

best wishes, HJ.

 

For information on this, I had two Win98SE PCs connected by crossover cable. They each had an ethernet card.

They are gone now. Have two Win XP Home PCs. They are connected by the same Crossover Cable and I now have Cable Internet.

Have had no problems what so ever with the setup. Share ICS, File and Printer Sharing, both computers always on. Maybe this is not as good as Router but for me it's working.

 

Mudd,

Thanks for the response.

What is meant by "Crossover cable "? Where can I buy it? Is it available in most computer shops?

Yasmin

 

A crossover cable: Meaning some of the individual wires inside the cable are not matched on the ends. Like an a/c line might have the white connected to white on a connector on the other end, and the black connected to the black. On a crossover for instance, the red on one end might be connected to a blue connection on the other end. All that is made up when they put the connector on the wires.

I had my Cable made up at a PC Repair Shop. The person cut the length I wanted, put the connectors on, (crossing the necessary wires). I paid him .50 cents per foot. That included the material and his labor.

I looked for a Ready Made Cross/over but could not find any longer than 8 ft. I believe you mentioned 10 meters so I doubt that you could find a ready made one that long. Could be wrong about that. Usually the larger PC Repair Shops have the material to do this. You can order the Cross/over Cable online. I've seen that somewhere, but don't remember where. Bet Google Google knows. Do a search for "Cross/over Cable. "

 

The transmit and receive wires are crossed so that the transmit pin on computer A is connected to the receive pin on computer B.

Necessary when connecting 'like' devices such as two PCs, two hubs, etc.

The same sort of thing is needed for the cables to do a direct cable connection with serial or parallel ports.

No clue about USB.

 

Hi Yasmin

sorry for the holdup, I realised you are using SE (rather than FE like me) and wanted to check it behaves the same - FE doesn't have Web Folders or Internet Connection Sharing, means you start from a different set of Network components - will post the details when I've got it sussed.

best wishes, HJ.

 

I’m using dial. Is it necessary to use IE for transferring data between two pcs? I think it’s just like copy, move and/or paste. Only the distance is more or less 10 meters. I can not move one pc to another only for this purpose, because the practice is on regular basis. So, I need to connect both pcs. But not to share the internet connection. Both pcs never used for internet
connection.

Do you mean no Internet connection or just not both at the same time ?

OK to Dial up. But I had 2 PCs connected with a Net card in each one and a hub.

Are you sure it is IE that you use to transfer data. That is something new to me. It has been so long since I did this but all I ever used was Windows Explorer ( not Internet Explorer ). But for a long time I have had PowerDesk which a great 3rd party replacement for Explorer.

For quite some time while I still had Dial-Up I used a card in each machine and a hub. Which I believe you would be better off with. And I have 25 foot cables all around.

Once I went to Cable I installed a Router.

I have never had two PCs direct connected.

BillyBob

 

Billy Bob

Do you think he may be thinking "FTP" when he speaks of IE transfer? This might be an "English misinterpretation" as he resides outside the US, even though his English is well written.

 

Billy Bob,

Mudd is right that it’s an "English misinterpretation," something that I worry about and try to avoid (although I often fail to avoid it:…)). And Mudd, thanks for the compliment that my English is well written. I should still improve my written English. Yes, I live outside U.S.A., and it’s in Asia.

I answered that I’m using dial because you asked me "What do you have for an Internet connection ? Dial, DSL or Cable connection ?â€

But in last sentence, I explained that both pcs not to be used for internet, so no internet connection is the correct answer to your new question. I use different, other pc (say, third pc) for internet connection.

Well, Billy Bob,

I ever used Power Desk before. It’s a great replacement for Windows Explorer. Even, I ever used Laplink, too. But for using Laplink, the laplink cable is too short for connecting both pcs.
Both pcs located at different room. That’s why I asked this board how to connect two pcs with 10 meters distance.

I think I should use direct connection cable or crossover cable. Well, for using crossover cable, where is this cable plug into, LPT port or Com port on both pcs?

So, I ask Hugh Jarss to help me provide the appropriate pin connections because I have a friend who is very experience with soldering.

One thing I should inform you all, that one pc has an ethernet card onboard, while the second pc has not. Is it no problem if I installed a NIC to the second pc (while the first pc has an ethernet card onboard) and then connect both pcs using a cable for LAN? I ask this just for a second option, since I’m still prefer to use direct cable connection or crossover cable than ethernet card.

Thank you very much for the attention, time, responses and sharing knowledge and expertise to all the experienced and expert people in this board.

Yasmin

 

Hi Yasmin

great you have a friend who can wield a soldering iron! very useful people to know...

here's the pinout for COM port (serial) DCC. It uses a crossover cable which is suitable for DCC, Interlnk, and many other purposes too... (this is the one I was referring to in earlier post as the 6 wire connection, it's actually 6 wires + ground)

I have this running between two PCs over a 25m length of cable successfully... I used a 6 core screened cable, using the screen of the cable for ground... but you could probably get away with cheapo burglar alarm cable as long as there are 7 conductors or more.

(If you have a reel of 12 core burglar alarm type cable go for the parallel - faster - connection perhaps?)(assuming you have LPT port spare both ends)

==

COM ports can have either 25pin or 9pin connectors! the right hand side of the table below should allow your friend to work it out for whichever sort you have on your PC. I hope!

Code:

DB25F       ---cable---   DB25F (=DB9F equivalent)
2            ---------       3  (=2)
3            ---------       2  (=3)
4            ---------       5  (=8)
5            ---------       4  (=7)
6,8**        ---------       20 (=4)
7            ---GND---       7  (=5)
20           ---------      6,8** (=6)

**Note for your friend: I have also strapped pin 6 to pin 8 in the DB25F. Some sources say not to connect pin 8, but I've never found it to hurt - on the contrary it seems to be necessary with really old COM ports (8 on a DB25 maps to 1 on a DB9.)

Pls. ask you friend to wire the cable core to pin 6, and then strap that to 8, so that in the unlikely event you have to remove the strap you just cut the wire and it disconnects the correct pin. I've never had to do this! - but some internet sources say to leave off pin 8.

I'm 99.9% certain it should work either with or without the strap - when I say really old COM ports I mean prehistoric...

If you look at the pin numbers for the DB25 wiring at each end, you can see why it's called a crossover cable... 2 swaps with 3; 4 swaps over with 5; and 6 swaps with 20.

==

as you left the choice open (COM or LPT) I gave the wiring for the serial (COM) cable as it uses a true crossover cable, which can be used for many other purposes as well. The cable for a parallel connection has more wires thus more expensive etc... although it would be faster.

let me know if this is understandable, pls., I'll post the software notes (for Network Properties) in an hour or two; have checked it out with 98SE now - and indeed same setup as with FE works fine.

very best wishes, HJ.

 

Hi,

Sorry for my last question about crossover cable. I forgot to search it thru Google as suggested by Mudd. After searching Google, now I know what is crossover cable. And to use it, I should install NIC. Abd it doesn’t need to use hub if we use crossover cable.

Now, back to my previous question, is it ok to install one NIC on one pc and connect it to other pc with onboard NIC? Or should I disable the onboard NIC and replace it by installing the new NIC, same as on the other pc? My friend suggest me to use the 3Com ethernet card. Is it a good card?

I think everything now become clear (only one or two things that I’m still confuse and still ask you all). I need (one or two) NIC, 10 meters crossover cable, install the NIC, connect both pcs with crossover cable and activate the Network Neighborhood as explained by Hugh Jarss. And then check if everything works fine.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for everybody who help me understanding of connecting two computers.

I’ll inform you the final result when everything is settled.

Ciao,

Yasmin

 

You are so very close, you are almost done.

Your questions answered. If I'm wrong, someone will tell you.

You need a ethernet card, as you are referring to as NIC in each computer. If one has it already installed, that's just fine. Then run your cross/over cable. After all is done, I suggest you turn off each computer, put the cross/over connection plug into the Host computer, then the other one which will be known as Client.

Turn the computers and run the Wizard. I believe you are running Win 98SE, so there should be a "Networking Connection" Wizard in Start/Programs/Accessories/Communications.

Run the Wizard on the Host computer first. If all goes well, there are a few windows that will come up and ask question for you to answer. If something is highlighted, like "MSHOME" and maybe other things, suggest you accept that.

When it finishes, you will get a window that indicates that it has, and will ask you to select an option. I suggest you do this: One of the options asks if you want to make a disk. Select yes, then direct it to a Floppy Disk, probably your A Drive. Make the disk.

Take the A Disk with you to the second computer. First try to run the Wizard on the second (Client) computer. Pay attention to the entries on the small windows that open. It may be slightly different than the first. If the Wizard is successful, you will get a window like the one on the first computer. Click OK and close it.

If all is well, you are on your way to having them connected. If it doesn't run properly, or if you had some problems running the Wizard on the Client computer, put the Disk that you made in the first (Host) computer and open and then double click the icon there. That will try to put into the second machine what needs to be.

If all this doesn't work, hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will see your post and correct me and offer you better advice.

 

Mudd,

Thank you for your patience to help me connecting two computers. I’ll follow your guidance once I receive the ethernet card and the cable from my friend.

I’ll post the result asap.

Btw, I read from the net about the crossover cable that RJ-45 has 8 pins. Understand that RJ-45 cable is different from cable for modem (RJ-11?) which consist of 5 pins. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Further, some site said that we have to be careful when buying the cable because crossover cable and straight-thru cable is different. Is this correct? How to differenciate each other physically?

Once again, thank you very much for your kind support.

Best regards,

Yasmin

 

Hi Yasmin, Mudd and all

sorry for once again taking so long to post back, I've had to make a succession of unscheduled journeys to the vet over the last few days, it's had to take priority. Hence the erratic timing...

Yasmin - you seem to be going for the Ethernet approach so I'll leave you in Mudd's capable hands - I have no familiarity with Ethernet.

"Activating" Network Neighbourhood isn't like turning it off/on: you add bits to it to allow it certain capabilities. Reading Mudd's post I'd guess that the Wizard will handle all of that.

==

One thing I should perhaps mention - which (I think) applies to Ethernet, DCC, or any other alteration / addition to your network configuration which asks you for files from your W98 CD...

...some of the files involved are ones which have been upgraded/fixed/patched to circumvent security issues - a visit to Windows Update (or equivalent) it will have installed the "corrected" versions of these files. The earlier versions - on your W98 CD - are the files which suffered from security problems, Windows Update will have detected them and replaced as necessary.

Watch out, therefore, for messages like "A file being copied is earlier than the file on your PC. It is recommended that you keep your existing file" - and keep your existing file, as it's the updated/fixed/patched version. If you let it copy an earlier file from the CD, you will "unpatch" yourself.

If the Networking components which your new interconnection requires are new to your PC (ie were not present when you visited Windows Update) they will not have been "safety-checked" when you visited Windows Update - thus, for peace of mind, a return visit to Windows Update (or your chosen route for doing this - BigFix or the like) is indicated.

Good luck with it all - I shall "watch from the sidelines" and try and learn; I have three ethernet cards sitting here not doing anything, perhaps one day might try getting them to work...

best wishes, HJ.

==

FWIW:
Network Components to get DCC working:
(doing it like this will interconnect W95 / W98 also)

add these components to the Network Configuration

Start>Settings>ControlPanel>Network - which opens at the "Configuration Tab "; look for the "Add..." button and add:

Client|Microsoft| "Client for Microsoft Networks "
Adapter|Microsoft| "Dialup Adapter "
Protocol|Microsoft| "IPX/SPX "
Protocol|Microsoft| "NetBEUI "
Service| "File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks "

Set Primary Network Logon to Windows Logon.

(example)

You'll have to share some folders - don't use names same as folders on the other computer!

Bindings - I bind all 3 protocols to both Dial-Up Adapters, that way it doesn't mind whether you start DCC or go online first.

After this is set up, find your internet connection in DUN and disable IPX/SPX and NetBEUI - to leave only TCP/IP; our ISP gets awfully annoyed if I start lobbing off non-TCP/IP protocols at them!

This gives you two Dial-Up Adapters - so you can be online and communicate with the remote PC simultaneously - the two "communications channels" are effectively completely independent.

Even with 98SE you cannot use Internet Connection Sharing over DCC. But this can be advantageous in some ways! - and certainly helps keep it simple and well under control.

Effectively, you get a "Windows Explorer" only it's for the folders on the other PC. Use it just as you would a normal Windows Explorer.

Tip: If you close down the remote (Host) PC with DCC still running, when it boots up again it comes up ready listening for the connection - with a timeswitch you don't even have to be in the same room...

 

Yasmin

You are asking a question beyond my knowledge when seeking information about Cable Types.

Hopefully someone will see the post and give you a qualified answer. You can check Here and see cable prices and types.

Good luck with your endeavor.