Computer reboots after loading Icons

Hi,
I have exhausted my attempts to figure out why an Acer computer, Windows 98 keeps rebooting after it loads all the desktop icons... The computer had 64 MB of RAM so I added more 256 MB and it now has 319 MB...The computer is approx 5 years old and is a flat desktop model...I have gone into safe mode and unchecked a few or so programs in (msconfig) start up and that did not change the situation...In normal mode, I unchecked "load all start up programs" (msconfig), as well as unchecked "process system.ini and process win.ini" and that too did not make a difference...I removed the casing and observed the heat sink fan and power supply fans to run normally so I feel they are not the issue...The computer appears to pass the post test up to the loading of the icons and then reboots...In viewing the programs in the task manager, nothing appears to be a contributing cause...I also checked, removed and swapped the memory chips (which are PC 133's) and that did not have any effect...I am wondering if the CPU is not processing the memory when it reaches a certain point and not sure how to verify that short of replacing it...The last thing I did was while in the msconfig field, under win.ini (I believe it was), I unchecked Echo Off and that for now has stopped the computer from rebooting after it loads the Icons but as soon as I click on an Icon, it reboots...Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Thank You

 

Before doing anything below... Have you added any new software or devices to your system? You state that you added 256meg of ram. Did the problem start right then or has the ram been in for a while? Since the ram you are showing is incorrect... 319meg, should be 320meg, can the mobo handle 256meg sticks?

Can you use the start menu?

Open the case and remove all cards except video and try to boot. If the boot is sucessfull try putting back the sound card, etc., one at a time until the boot fails. That will narrow things down to what may actually be causing the problem.

If the boot fails with just the video card try another card if available.

You can also try re-installing windows over top of itsself. This often fixes a lot of windows problems while still keeping your settings and programs intact.

 

Jay, I don't fuss too much when it comes to RAM numbers. If you read from the BIOS, sometimes you find slightly higher figures (a few bonus megabytes). Also, in the BIOS, it will read 1 megabyte short for the base memory (640 kilobytes). There are memory diagnostics in my signature if that may seem to be the problem.

Since it boots through to the desktop, I would think that it is more probably a corrupt file in the Windows system rather than a hardware problem. Another test would be to see what happens when an icon is clicked in Safe Mode. If the same thing happens then it is a problem with the basic Windows system. If it does not happen then it is a problem with hardware (or drivers) or the startup programs.

I, too, would try reinstalling Windows over itself and is what I would try first. Use a startup disk (Windows boot floppy) or boot to the CD if you have the bootable version of the Windows CD (in other words, don't try reinstalling when you are in Windows). When setup asks where to install, use C:\Windows.

I thought about running System File Checker, but that would replace "modified" files and probably not the corrupt one(s) that is causing the problem. If you want to try SFC, look it up in the Help menu (and you should be able to run it in Safe Mode). If you make modifications with SFC do your Windows Updates again.

Matt

 

Hi, Mattman,

I am also thinking the posibilities of a driver problem. But I'm also thinking that it might be easier to just pull all the cards then to try to troubleshoot around a bad driver that is loaded. Correct me if I'm wrong as drivers aren't exactly my strong point but if the card isn't present then windows won't load the drivers. As cards are put back in and the problem comes back it would show what drivers are at fault. Then those drivers can be removed and reinstalled from the install CD.

I would actually appreciate your opinion on my logic as I definately consider you, along with Rockster2u and others to have more knowledge than I do in such matters.

I DID put things in the wrong order... I totally agree with you that re-installing windows would be the first step.

To be honest I didn't even consider that the memory amount might have been looked at in bios. I was thinking system info, directx diag, or such. The only cases I can recall that the above 2 reported wrong amounts of memory were if the system had onboard video that was sharing system memory or there was a problem with the memory.

 

Hmmmmmm, just a thought on video....

IF the system has onboard video and another video card is being used make sure that the onboard video is turned off. If failsafe settings were loaded in bios, or any other predefined settings, the onboard video would be turned on. I doubt it very much but it's not impossible that could cause a conflict. Like I said, I doubt it very much.

 

Thank you for the reply's, as always they are appreciated...I am not positive on what may have been or has not been added with the exception of games..The computer belongs to a friend and he brought it to me because it kept freezing up...My first instinct was to check the memory and after seeing it had just 64MB of Ram, I added more...To the best of my knowledge it is not un-common for the computer to show one less MB of Ram and since it's just that in this case I'm moving on..I can access anything I so desire in safe mode, the problem is only when it's in normal mode...It was not until I un-checked the ECHO@OFF button was I able to get too and stay at the desk top...Prior to that it would re-boot after the Icons loaded...Now when I click on an Icon, it re-boots...I sincerely feel there's a conflict of some type but just not sure if a software would cause this or if a hardware would...Without a doubt it's a game of process of elimination...Would an IRQ conflict bring this on as I have yet to check that ???...Thanks again

 

Well, there is one thing Mattman and I definately agree on...

Your first step should be to try re-installing windows over itsself.

 

Update:...I tried re-installing Windows 98 over itself and when it got to the final stages where it loads the hardware settings, it would repeat the setup from the begining...It did this twice, and on the third attempt a kernel error came up...After figuring ways to try and get beyond the error message, the same problem where it kept re-booting continued...I am up for suggestions if there are any left...Thanks

 

It sounds like the part where drivers are installed.

BUT FIRST, something you should do. Go here:
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/
and calculate your power consumption and compare it to your PSU's rating.

Go to Safe Mode and see if there are any items marked as not working correctly in Device Manager. Yes, an IRQ conflict maybe, but they generally occur when you add a new piece of hardware, anyway Jay's suggestion about removing all added hardware would be the next step. Does it have any ISA cards? They are more likely to cause trouble than PCI. After you have removed the piece of added hardware, go to Device Manager when you restart and check that it has gone. When you replace the cards, put sound cards and modems in the last slots, near the edge of the motherboard. Write down the model numbers of the hardware when you have them out, so that when the drivers are being reinstalled you can direct Windows to the right ones. Go to the motherboard manufacturers website and find the latest chipset drivers and drivers for the built-in hardware. Post back if you have problems, it is not always as easy as it sounds (to say the least ).

After that I think the video and it's drivers would be the next possible cause, but try the above first.

Matt

 

Jay, just keep pumping out those suggestions. With minor adjustments they are about exactly what I would be doing.
I used to inspect RAM figures closely, but found after a while that strange numbers did not necessarily mean cause for alarm. I decided not to let them cloud the broad picture and use specific diagnostics if necessary.
The Windows reinstall was good to start with, it ruled out Windows system files and allowed a set of drivers to be installed cleanly. Now that it appears to be related to hardware, let's go back to your original method

RE: "Correct me if I'm wrong as drivers aren't exactly my strong point but if the card isn't present then windows won't load the drivers." Only maybe. Driver files can be "shared ". The drivers for one piece of hardware may update the driver files for another piece of hardware which cannot use that version. Modems appear in the list of modems (under Control Panel > Modems) unless you remove them. If you look in Safe Mode under Device Manager you will see a list of bygone hardware (and removing these can solve a hardware/driver problem). The driver files are still "around ". Unless the drivers have a specific uninstall file/program, removing them in Safe Mode (Device Manager) is the best way to ensure they are removed.

Matt

 

Hi,
Thank you again for your assistance...When it boots up to the desktop it reboots and reboots so getting beyond that point is almost impossible...So I go into Safe Mode and I am able to cat around without a problem...To touch base again, I added more memory nothing changed, system resources are at 90%, I did all the tricks with Msconfig and still no change...No error messages come up to indicate any problem(s)...It gets past the post test and then the problem starts...I see no problem or problems in Device Manager...Before doing the re-install of Windows 98, I noticed in the device manager under the sound and video section 23 listings which I've never seen so many before and upon removing the ones associated to games the computer when booted back up would stop at the password prompt screen and stop...Strange behavior...Someone who apparently looked at this computer before felt it was the motherboard, I first considered the CPU, then thought about the IRQ's and now my arrows are pointing towards the video card...Hopefully I'm on the right track and as for folowing the suggestions of pulling the video card I am not sure I would get beyond the point of what I have been dealing with where it re-boots so I can say with a definitive answer yes that was the problem...I stand to be corrected please advise and I will make that attempt...Thanks again...

 

Z-2-H, it might well be a driver problem, not the actual hardware itself. If the wrong or corrupt drivers are present the hardware will not function correctly. As I said, Jay's suggestion about removing added hardware should be next to try. Added hardware is the easiest to troubleshoot. If there are IRQ problems, this will rule those out. It is no use blaming the CPU, motherboard, video or RAM if you have not ruled out the other (minor) hardware and their drivers.

Check the power supply website that I posted.

It might only be the CPU if it say, had a bent pin. CPUs do not tend to "sort of" work. You could check the CPU temperature in the BIOS settings, heat can cause restarts. EDIT: if you remove the heatsink from the CPU you need to remove the old thermal compound or pad and replace it with a fresh layer of compound.

Video. Search the BBS hardware forum for "graphics ". If it is an ATI or nVidia card you can use the driver removal tools mentioned in the top threads (stickies) of that forum.

Before blaming the motherboard I would format the harddrive and after installing a fresh load of Windows I would install the (correct) motherboard/chipset drivers, then the video card drivers (then other drivers) and see how it ran.

Do the easy tests first.

Matt

 

Hi,
Thanks for the info but I would like to consider trying the format...However, my concern is when I do the format can I install Windows Xp and hope all goes well or is that not advisable at this point and time ???

 

AHHhhhhhhhhh...

Something to keep in mind with Windows XP:

XP will find and install drivers for just about anything. However, this does NOT mean that it will install the right drivers. The drivers that the device actually needs might not even be in it's data base. It's gonna install the best match it can find. Make sure that you install device drivers from the actual CD that came with the device. Don't trust XP to automatically come up with the right drivers.

 

Hi,
Okay thanks for the inside scoop...I will try the format and upgrade and let you know how things went and hopefully are when done...At this point the computer is totally use-less as is...Cross thy fingers and hope it turns out to be the cure all...

 

A PIII with 320Mb RAM?...this machine has a 1700Mhz with 500Mb RAM and I STILL prefer Win 98
I got a 3.0Ghz and loaded it onto that too, admittedly with dual boot to Win XP. Guess which one I prefer?
I have to make "fill-in" IT repairs to the Win XP machines at work. Guess which one I prefer?

Matt

 

Hi,
Update...Last night I went to format the computer and had much difficulty trying to get the startup disk in the floppy drive...I looked inside and found a 2x2 CD in there, removed it and the blue line that usually runs across the screen when windows 98 boots up finally started running across...I then ran scandisk /ALL in MS-DOS and it fixed 2 problems; (1) directory entry fat chain was truncated and, (2) lost cluster saved as a file...The computer stopped rebooting (finally)...Of course fix one problem and along comes another...I tried to follow all that up with re-installing AOL 9.0 and the screen frooze up within seconds of inserting the AOL CD (I had previously un-installed it)...Curiosity always kills the cat so I tried to upgrade the computer to Windows Xp and at first it found three hardware issues, (1) Modem, (2) Network adapter and, (3) Intel graphics...Eventually those three issues became just a modem issue...39 minutes into the upgrade it would freeze up and it did this two times...It's now been 7 hrs into all this and felt that maybe the heat build up was a possible cause for this...I shut down the computer and was going to try again after the computer had several hours plus to cool down and that would confirm the heat build up issue...Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated...Gotta love these challenges...

 

This indicates problems which the below will not fix.

If you booted directly from a power off state to the XP CD then it MIGHT ( but I doubt ) have fixed things. Especailly when I read that the screen froze up at the inserting of the CD.

Format the HD and start over. As it reads like you have some SERIOUS hardware problems.

BillyBob

 

Hi,
Okay but just to touch base again on my previous post, The Xp CD did not freeze till it was 39 min's into loading where as the AOL CD frooze up within seconds of trying to load...Big difference in time...

What I failed to mention and I apologize for this is, in between my two attempts to load Xp, I re-installed Windows 98...So to the best of my knowledge that is what corrected two out of the first three issues the Xp CD reported...And it was at that point I was instructed to do the scandisk /ALL in MS-DOS (that corrected the other two problems- truncate & cluster)...

By now the computer which I had situated on my bed and resting comfortably on my comforter appeared very warm to me and that's when I raised the heat concern which no doubt was self inflicted by me having it on the comforter...So I removed it to a better location and shut it down shortly after...Hopefully this shed's a little more light on how I arrived at this...

 

I need no further explanion. The above quote by you indicates a problem either with the CDROM itself or at least something with in the OS. Or maybe just AOHell.

An attempt at a re-install or upgrade attempt WILL NOT FIX THAT

Also there is a possibility that AOL and been installed more than once. If it was there maybe or are SEVERAL problems. Especailly if neither one went correctly. Which it appears to be the case. An uninstall WILL NOT take out more than the LAST install. And from experience AOL unistall does a VERY POOR job anyway.

Now you have an OS ( or two ) that may well be so confused that nothing will work.

OUCH !!!!! I wish that I had not even read that.

Attempting to put 98 back in after an attempt at installing XP WILL NOT Work. Even if you boot from the Floppy to re-install there may well be A LOT of XP stuff that 98 WILL NOT overwrite.

Reading what I have I see no other choice than FORMAT AND START OVER. If for no other reason than to get rid of the MASS CONFUSION that exists.

BillyBob