Booting from USB External Hard Drive

Bought and installed this absolutely super USB External Hard Drive, Western Digital WDXUB1200BBNN.

My intention was to use it primarily for playing with beta software. Copied all my older C:\ drive over to it using the supplied software (Dantz Retrospect), including (supposedly) the operating system. Rebooted, and expected to be offered the choice of booting from C:\ or F:\.

Nope. Searched Western Digital's support page and learned "Western Digital does not provide technical support for booting your computer using an external hard drive. If you intend to make a copy of your boot drive, or install your operating system, please use a second internal drive (EIDE or Serial ATA), rather than an external drive. "

Well, does that mean booting from the external hard drive cannot be done, or only that WD are not going to tell me? Does anyone have any idea how to be able to run the PC from the external hard drive? Would Ghosting an image of C:\ help? Or using Windows NTBackup?
Or I could install another copy (unused) of Windows XP on the external hard drive. Would that help?

P.S. I had a look in my SetUp, etc, but could not find any mention of the F:\ drive as such, but maybe it is named something else.

 

Hi Welshjim,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought that Windows is loading the USB drivers, hence you can not boot from your external USB drive.
The driver can be loaded with a boot disk, but I don’t know (never tried it) if you can load windows after booting to dos. I am sure someone will know.
Sven

 

I believe you can boot from an external drive on some computers. I haven't actually tried with a hard drive though. It can be done on a flash drive. I know that on occasions I have forgot and left my flash drive in during boot and will get the message "not a system disk....." error.

Good luck.

 

Hi Jim,

My thread on external drive enclousures: http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=38548
Discussion on booting from the external drive starting with the 2nd page.

The bottom line: has to be an option in the BIOS. I think you have a Dell, see if there is a BIOS update that added that capability.

Regards - Charles

 

Jim,

I tend to agree with Charles on the BIOS needing capability to boot of a USB device. Normally, have choices of Floppy, CD, or Hard Drive but on newer systems, they now include an option for a USB device. If your BIOS is older than a year or so, you might not be able to do that unless you get an update to the BIOS. (WARNING: If you update your BIOS, FOLLOW THE INSTURCTIONS. Do NOT try to flash BIOS from Windows. This MUST be done from a floppy or other device that does NOT load ANY device drivers).

Go into your CMOS/BIOS Setup (F2 if you have a Dell or the Delete key with any non-brand name PC, F10 for an HP or Compaq) and check the Boot Sequence and Boot options.

George

 

It looks as if I have bought a very expensive back up drive, since unless Dell has a BIOS update, that is all the Western Digital USB External Drive is good for.

I spent almost two hours with Dell support today. He could not tell me whether the motherboard would support USB External Drives, nor the make or model of the motherboard. (I did not have your suggestion for updating the BIOS during the conversation, but will ask tomorrow. The PC is only seven months old, but I do not know how old the BIOS is.)
I ran System Setup and post the results below.

It seems the External USB Drive is not being recognized in the Hard Drive Sequence. Interestingly, when I plug in a USB Flash Drive it is recognized (see *). The USB External Drive otherwise performs OK (if all I wanted was a back up drive). It appears in My Computer and I can access all the data on it.

Here is what System Setup reports when I boot with the USB External Drive installed

F2 System Setup
Drive Configuration
Diskette Drive A
SATA Primary Drive Hard Drive
SATA Secondary Drive OFF
Primary Master Drive OFF
Primary Slave Drive OFF
Secondary Master Drive CD-ROM Device DVD ROM
Secondary Slave Drive CD-ROM Device DVD+RW
IDE Drive UDMA ON
(If I click Enter on any of the three OFF devices, I get the message
Model Unknown
Drive Type OFF
Capacity N/A )

Hard Drive Sequence
1. Systems BIOS Boot Devices
2. USB Device (not installed) (*if I plug in a USB Flash Drive, the "not installed" disappears)

Boot Sequence
1. Diskette Drive
2. Hard Disk Drive C:
3. IDE CD-ROM Drive
---------------------------------------------------------------

F12 Boot Device Menu (with USB External Hard Drive connected)
1. Normal
2. SATA Primary Drive
3. Diskette Drive
4. Hard Disk Drive C:
5. IDE CD-ROM Drive
6. USB Flash Drive
7. System SetUp
8. IDE Diagnostics
9. Boot to Utilities Partition "

Well, I had transferred my entire C: drive over to the External Drive supposedly including operating system. I also have another WinXP CD (as yet unused) that I could install there if that is permitted by the External hard drive and if anyone thinks that would help.

Sure am disappointed. I thought I was buying a Hard Drive that would function just like an internal hard drive, without having to open the tower. Nothing on the Western Digital box to indicate otherwise. Live and learn, I guess.

Thanks for the comments.

 

The boot sequence is the standard one that's been around since cd-rom's were added. What I'm supprised at is that a BIOS that had that capability wasn't included in a 7 month old system.

You wouldn't be able to install XP on that drive anyway. If you looked at my thread, the C drive with WinME on it became my USB backup drive. It had the OS on it and I tried with the Recovery Console to get the system to recognize it as a bootable device. Did that just to see if it could be done. At that point started investigating and discovered that it was a BIOS issue.

Regards - Charles

 

charlesvar--Think I understand what you are saying. Could you however elaborate on "What I'm supprised at is that a BIOS that had that capability wasn't included in a 7 month old system. "? Are you saying that new BIOS do have the capability to boot from USB External Drives? (As noted, a USB Flash is recognized, but not the External Drive.)+

I am, for the most part resigned to the fact that I bought something I should not have.

 

Welsh,

I see the USB device as a boot drive.

Experiement Time
Try changing the boot sequence with the USB drive connected and make the USB drive is the 1st boot device and do not have a hard drive in there. See if it boots off the USB drive. If it can't then you know your USB drive was not setup as a bootable device but the fact that it is listed in the boot drive list, would indicate that it is a valid boot device.

George

 

Hi George,

I see the USB device as a boot drive.
That's the Flash drive - the system does know the difference between that and a "mass usb storage device" ( an external drive). Flash drives were designed to replace floppys ever since WinME.

It'll be interesting to see Jim try it, but I don't think it will work; hope I'm pleasantly supprised.


Jim,

Could you however elaborate on "What I'm supprised at is that a BIOS that had that capability wasn't included in a 7 month old system. "?
Just my expection. External drives have been around for more than a year now, and one would think that DELL would have added this by now.

I saw a BIOS boot sequence listed in some post, don't remember what post, that included "usb mass storage device "; don't remember the OEM either.

Regards - Charles

 

iclarius and charlesvar--
Well--Dell offered me a BIOS upgrade and when I installed it, there was a change. Before the new BIOS, the Hard Drive Sequence in Setup showed the USB Device was "Not installed ". The words "Not Installed" have now disappeared. I suspect that the USB External Hard Drive has been recognized! (I did not have my USB Flash Drive attached, so it must have been the USB External Hard Drive that was "detected ".)

However, no other changes in F2 Setup or F12 Boot Device Menu have occurred.

Now I will show my ignorance. Does the recognition of the External Drive in Hard Drive Sequence mean it is now a Bootable Drive? Should I change the order of the Hard Drive Sequence from

1. Systems BIOS Boot Devices
2. USB Device

to

1. USB Device
2. Systems BIOS Boot Devices ?

I do not know what the difference in function is between Systems BIOS Boot Devices and USB Device. The words imply that the USB Device is still not a Boot Device.

If I should make the change in Hard Drive Sequence, and something goes wrong, how will I be able get back into System Setup to change things back? Just by restarting and pressing F2?

I also am leaving now. So look forward to hearing from you tomorrow on both the monitor's USB ports and whether I should change the Hard Drive Sequence.

Actually, I have asked the above of Dell and may have a response from them tomorrow. (They are in India, of course.)
But you have advice, please give it.

Thanks.

 

Yes.

 

Jim,

You have full control of what happens in the BIOS since it occurs was before Windows does anything.

The BIOS entry is a basic operation that allows you to make changes and also recover if you do not like the change you made.

I suspect that you've assumed that you can boot off the drive by virtue of the fact that it is connected to the system as opposed to telling the bIOS that the external USB drive is a boot drive.

George

 

I thought I should tell you the outcome of trying to boot from the USB External Drive. As you know, Dell Tech Support offered me an updated BIOS and that permitted the Drive to be recognized in SetUp's Hard Drive Sequence.

I switched the "USB Device" in Hard Drive Sequence to the #1 position ( "Systems BIOS Boot Devices" becoming #2) and rebooted. Not much to report. All I got was a message telling me to click F1 to Retry or F2 to return to Setup. Clicking F1 a couple of times just repeated the message. So I reset "Systems BIOS Boot Devices" back to #1 in the HardDrive Sequence and booted to my normal drive C:\. (As I had mentioned, I had copied the full contents of my C:\ Drive, supposedly including operating system, over to the USB External Drive so I had some hopes I could boot from it. But it was not to be.)

Since I have an unused WinXP CD I thought I would try installing it on the USB External Drive to see if that would permit booting from the External Drive. I got to the point where XP Installation setup wanted to know where I wanted to install the program. The USB External Drive was in the list of locations!! Was I optimistic. But when I clicked Next, I got the message:

Well, I know Western Digital will not help. But I will give Dell this info and see if they can do anymore. At least I got an updated BIOS out of this exercise and my USB External Drive is "recognized ", for whatever good those two things are.

Thanks for your help.

And beware about buying USB External Hard Drives for more than backup!

P.S. Perhaps most of you know this already, but if you abort a WinXP Setup (by clicking, as instructed, F3, when reading the message above) all boots thereafter will show a message asking whether you want to boot from the Windows version installed or return to XP Installation Setup. What a nuisance. I finally tried System Restore. That seems to have killed it.

BTW--I must say that Dell's Tech Support person (out of India) was really very responsive. I suspect there is nothing more that can be done.

 

DING DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner!!!

Get your usb hard drive driver files on a floppy and get ready!

Boot from the XP cd and the first screen you see will say at the bottom "Press F6 to load any additional drivers" or something like that.
Hit F6 and in a few moments you will be prompted to insert the floppy with the drivers for your drive.

This loads the USB drive drivers into memory so Windows can see the drive to load the OS.

If you allready have a good copy of your OS on the USB drive you can do a repair install and load those drivers as mentioned above.

 

Jim,

How did you copy your hard drive including your operating system onto the USB drive?

George

 

ssmith10pn --Thanks for the reply. Not entirely sure I understand. I think you mean to put the new XP CD into my CD-ROM and click on Installation, which is what I did. I do not remember an F6 option, but will try it this weekend. The External Hard Drive's drivers are already on the External Hard Drive.
Maybe you could provide a bit more detail as to just what I am trying to accomplish here. (And also how to do it )

iclarius--Part of the Western Digital USB External Hard Drive CD is a "Backup" program called Dantz Retrospect 6.5 . When I used it to make the first backup of C:\ drive, one of the options was a complete backup, including OS. (Now, a quick run of the Dantz program does not offer those words, since it knows I have already made the backup of C:\, and rather offers a differential backup.) Of course, I would have no clue whether it really did backup the OS and whatever is needed to boot from the External Hard Drive.

I wonder if part of the problem is that the backup image of C:\ on the USB External Hard Drive is labelled "F:\Retrospect Backup\Backup of Drive C (C)040205" , and all the files start with that directory address. For example xxx.jpg shows its address as "F:\Retrospect Backup\Backup of Drive C (C)040205\Graphics\xxx.jpg. Would it matter if the content of F:\ was labelled only F:\ , for example F:\Graphics\xxx.jpg? Would that make the content of F:\ more accessible to things like booting and installation of an OS?

 

Hi Jim,

Two tests:

Run Recovery Console and see if it recognizes the installation.

Another, if you can install the OS on the external drive, after you create a partition for it.

A Drive Image, if that's what is on the drive, doesn't mean it's bootable.

Regards - Charles

 

Don't know whether this is Greek or Geek, but it sounds like a good way to take something which should be simple and make it quite difficult and most confusing. For those of us that are more inclined to take a path of least resistance I can offer two suggestions - one, you should be able to clone your existing hard drive to the USB if thats what you're really after ..... or two, you should be able to image your existing drive to your USB drive. The former will be bootable, the latter won't.

If you want to do a clean installation of XP, you can disconnect your existing internal HDD and, at the F6 driver prompt (its on every XP disc ever made) load USB drivers which will permit you to install to your USB as a system drive.

Not sure where this is headed other than an academic discussion, but it appears to be more Greek than Geek at this point.

 

Charles,

Based on the latest info you provided, you did NOT clone your drive onto the USB drive but you BACKED UP the drive. THAT is two totally different things. Backing up an entire drive is NOT cloning the drive. A cloned drive has EVERYTHING that the original drive had as well as having a COMPLETE duplicate of the drive and NOT just a copy.

George