boot disk preoblem win95b; ibm aptiva

hello,
i hope this is the right forum for a boot disk question?
windows95b; ibm aptiva (2159-s90)... (split system (the cd-rom drive, floppy drive and power switch are in a media console which connects (via cable) to the motherboard via the 'media console controller card' which is in an isa slot....)
has a 30 gb maxtor master (ezBIOS); an ide zip drive (which is 'd' in windows) (shares ide controller with the cd-rom);

this pc has a problem with boot disks <i think> due to the lettering of the cd-rom... i had used cdboot3 in the past (and then made 2 more recently) all with the cd-rom as 'o' (meaning that it can change lettering).
none of them allow recognition or booting from a bootable cd (nor in ms-dos) (and these worked in the past)
(the cd-rom is 2nd start-up device in the bios (1st = a; 3rd = hd0; and 4th = disabled))
i prefer to leave any hardware changes for now since also it did read boot disks (cdboot3) with only c (the 30 gb) and if it *crashes* i would remove the other devices anyway
also i think the problem lies in the start-up files???
the config.sys has the cd-rom drive commented out... (i don't know why) in addition, i do not even know which drivers in command.com are for this cd-rom drive (there ar 2 names)
autoexec.bat is not commented
i really apologize for the length of this but not sure what to leave out?

here is config.sys
;DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
device=C:\WINDOWS\cs4232c.exe

and here is autoexec.bat
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
C: \WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G
PATH C:\PAGEMGR\IMGFOLIO;C:\PAGEMGR;

thank you in advance

 

Don't rule out the possibility that the CD drive is dying (or dead).

 

thanks jerry4dos,
the cd-rom runs great in windows...
i think i have to figure out what drivers are on it (i have 2 kinds in c:\windows\command.com and i don't know which are the actual ones)
(it's a matshita cd-rom cr-583 -- ide)
these are: ibmidecd.sys and vide-cdd.sys
do you think uncommenting the line: ;DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001
in config.sys would work?
thank you!

 

tanya

No. The config.sys and autoexec.bat run after DOS on a floppy, cd, or HDD has already started. Only the BIOS effects booting from the disk in question.

Does the disk boot in another computer?

 

hi sparrow,
thank you for answering!
yes it does work in a pc (with normal configuration)
the reason i ask about the start-up files is that i thought they load dos drivers (and that when one creates a boot disk, those drivers are copied to the boot disk...)
this aptiva has non-generic drivers (and has to be drive-letter 'g')
however that would not explain why the older boot disks i'd made which used to work in the aptiva do not work now (it does read the boot disk but is unable to 'find' the cd-rom)

restarting in dos also does not recognize the cd-rom (even with drive letter g) without the boot disk.
dos under windows does recognize the cd-rom as 'g' (and it is 'g' in windows)
i wonder if i should change the BIOS start-up options to cd-rom = 1st and a-drive = 2nd?
thank you!

 

Un-commenting that line in CONFIG.SYS should fix this problem, but Sparrow's right about BOOTING from a CD -- that all happens before DOS starts (and the AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS files get read.)

Will a COMMERCIAL bootable CD disk work (like a Windows Install CD)? Maybe the CD drive is starting to have trouble with the homemade CDs (because they're not as reflective), and the laser is getting dim/dusty/misaligned.

Jerry

 

Let me try to explain my thinking.

When the power is applied (or the reset button is pressed) the program instruction counter is set to memory location 000000 and instructions starting from there are sent to the CPU in linear fashion (1, 2, 3, 4.... etc.). 000000 is the first instruction in the BIOS, a special memory on the motherboard.

When the BIOS finishes its power on self-test or POST, the last thing it does is try to point the instruction counter to a disk, so it looks for a bootable disk, one with a boot record/sector/area and if it finds one, instructions in the boot area are loaded into memory, RAM, BECAUSE THE CPU CAN ONLY WORK ON INSTRUCTIONS IN MEMORY.

Programs on a disk must be placed in memory and the instruction counter/pointer pointed to their beginning if they are to work.

The boot area of a bootable disk contains a label indicating what kind of disk it is and a program that is loaded into memory and run to get the disk operating system (DOS) into memory so the instruction pointer can be set to point to the start of the OS in memory. If a formerly bootable disk no longer boots, either its boot area no longer is valid when read into memory, or it can't be read into memory by the hardware.

Any other instructions, such as those in config.sys and autoexec.bat are loaded by the OS when it gets control of the CPU.

Hardware in this case includes the CDROM (drive) and the chips in its electronics and on the motherboard that control the process and funnel the data to RAM. It's hard to pin it down further, so we generally test by substituting good hardware for suspect parts. That could mean rebuilding your computer if it appears that the motherboard is suspect!

At this point suggest you consider trying another CDROM drive in this computer.

 

thanks again for replying!
i am using the commercial windows95b cd...
yesterday (as per advice) i tried the same cd-rom with the bootdisk (that worked on the aptiva in the past) on another pc (with a normal configuration) and it was able to access the cd with no problem...
(so i guess that indicates that there is no problem with the bootDisk or the windows95B cd)
the bootDisk works as far as getting an a:\> prompt... on the aptiva...
and the cd-rom is fine in windows (and dos prompt under windows)

 

hi sparrow,
thanks again

it has ezBIOS overlay and normally when it boots the screen states to hold down the ?ctrl to boot from a floppy....
it is an ibm bios ('ibm surepath setup utility')
with the boot disk -- (1 of many that did work) in drive a the ezbios message does not come.

i did test the boot disk and the windows 95b cd on another system and it is fine
the aptiva boots from the boot disk (to an a:\> prompt) however when one chooses (?option b -- from the floppy menu) to see whether it can recognize the windows 95 b cd in the cd-rom drive, it states that it cannot recognize it.....

so the os is on the boot disk (floppy)

first i don't have a cd-rom drive handy (right now)
the cd-rom, the floppy drive and the power switch are in the media console (which is a 3rd piece) which connects to the mBoard via a cable that goes to the 'media console controller card' (which is in an isa slot on the motherBoard)


... and... the cd-rom drive is fine in windows (it is drive letter 'g') and the dos prompt (in windows ) start-> programs -> ms-dos dos prompt
(which is why i thought it might be a driver issue (since it is working) and / or a BIOS issue)

i will try (although if it works in windows and the prompt -- doesn't that suggest that the h/w is ok?)

another question: i understand what you are saying about the start-up files (wrt the boot disk)
but what i am wondering is that when one shuts down to restart in msdos, doesn't it load the drivers (from the config.sys and autoexec.bat?)

because with restarting in dos (not the prompt under windows) it does not *have* a cd-rom either....


thanks!

 

Am I understanding correctly that the 95 computer will boot from a bootable cd to the a: prompt but that it doesn't recognize the cdrom drive from there?

Is this the config.sys and auto exec.bat from your hard drive or is it from the bootable cd? If this is from your hard drive, what do the config.sys and autoexec.bat files on the bootable cd contain? If it boots from the cd but doesn't recogize the cdrom drive once at the a: prompt it would appear that the problem is that it's not loading the driver for the cdrom. This has to be done from the autoexec.bat and config.sys files on the bootable cd. Not from the hard drive. It would involve adding the appropriate lines to the files on the boot cd and also copying VIDE-CDD.SYS and MSCDEX.EXE to the root of the boot disk. You'd have to edit the line in config.sys and autoexec.bat so it points to the correct location of the two files. In this case you'd change the line in config.sys that says:
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001

to:
DEVICE=A:\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IBMCD001

and the one in the autoexec.bat from:
C: \WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G

to:
A:\MSCDEX /D:IBMCD001 /M:4 /V /L:G

If the puter boots from the bootable cd but doesn't recognize the cdrom drive it's not likely there's anything wrong with the drive. Besides, if it works in windows there's no reason it shouldn't in DOS.

 

hi Zander,
thanks for the reply!

no it boots to a boot floppy and the boot floppy (in the a-drive) has a menu on it with 4 choices (help; run windows setup (i think) and 1 of the menu options is to check whether the cd-rom drive is recognized)
it states to have a windows 95 b cd in it etc... and it tells me that the cd-rom could not be found..............

these are the config.sys and the autoexec.bat on the pc (which i believe are wrong b/c i think that the cd-rom dos drivers are NOT vide-cdd.sys but are ibmidecd.sys (i checked the properties of the 2 driver files and the vide-cdd.sys are year 2002 whereas the ibmidecd.sys are from 1995 and i have had the pc since 1997...))

i have to change the actual hd files (i think to using the ibmidecd.sys (and not the vide-cdd.sys))
the 1 problem is that it had used a boot diskette correctly in the past; and these must have had the correct cd-rom drivers (taken from the hd when creating the boot disk?)

should i post the autoexc.bat and config.sys files from the boot disk made in the past (which did work on the ibm but does not know (but does on another pc) and the the named files from the currently made boot diskette (which i did not test on the other system yet) but also does not recognize the cd-rom on the aptiva?)

for dos though, don't the autoexec.bat and config.sys (on the hd) have to be correct?
THANKS!

 

Yes, post them here so we can take a look. I'm not sure we'll find much there but it's worth a look. Another thing you could do is download a windows 98 boot disk from Bootdisk.com and use it to make a bootdisk. You should be able to get cdrom support with it. If you download one, put a blank floppy in the drive and double click on the downloaded file to make the disk. Then, when it boots, in the menu choose with cdrom support. When it stops at the a: prompt type the letter of your cdrom drive. It'll be different than it usually is because a win98 bootdisk creates a ram drive that will take the letter that's usually given the cdrom drive. In other words, if your cdrom drive is usually d: it'll be e: or if it's usually e: it'll be f: when you boot from the floppy. Type e: (or whatever it is) at the a: prompt and then press enter. If it changes to an e: prompt it's recognizing the drive. If it doesn't recognize it, you'll get an error message of some type.

If the DOS program runs in DOS, yes. If the program runs in a DOS window from within windows it's not necessary.

 

tanya

You have not answered the question "does the cd-r boot another computer?" which is a different matter than whether it can be read.

In that case the config.sys and autoexec.bat do play an important role and must be correct, i.e., the must refer to files available on the floppy or on a path refered to in the file.

 

hi Zander,
thanks again!

both bootDisks have identical autoexec.bats and config.sys's so here they are:
autoexec.bat
@echo off
set temp=c:\
set tmp=c:\
set path=a:\
lh mscdex.exe /d:cdbt001
lh mouse.com
menu.bat

config.sys
device=himem.sys /testmemff
devicehigh=idecdrom.sys /D:cdbt001 /P:170,15 /P:1E0,11
files=10
buffers=10
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256
lastdrive=z
lol -- the device=himen.sys /testmem<colon>off

i've tried the win98se route (and i was told that bootdisk.com is unable to create a boot disk for this pc...)

i think that there are 2 problems with this pc (but i do not know what the bootDisk does so there might only be 1 problem) (i imagine the root is in the ibm BIOS ('surePath setup utility'))
1. the drive letter of the cd-rom (ibm preAssigned it to be 'g'.)
(it came with a 3.2 gb hd (partitioned as c, d, and e.))
2. the drivers for this particular cd-rom...it is ide, in the media console (w/ the power switch and the floppy) a cable attaches the 3 devices to a 'media console controller card' which is in an isa slot.
what i do not understand is the cd-rom support issue:
is it based on the default cd-rom drive lettering?
or on the supposidly *unique* drivers?

for whatever reason, i feel that if the cd-rom was accessible in native dos (not the windows dos prompt) that would cure / fix 1 of the problems)

i thank you for your patience and help!
sincerely
Tanya

 

hi sparrow
thanks!

the reason i haven't answered it is because i do not have a cd-rw (it is a floppy boot disk (which i did use in another system -- after the suggestion)) and with the disk (boot floppy) in drive a, choosing the boot floppy's menu option ?c to see whether the boot floppy disk offered cd-rom support gave errors in the aptiva but in a normal pc it did give cd-rom drive support.
the boot disk had given cd-rom drive support before (in the aptiva)
the cd-rom i am using to test for cd-rom drive support is a premade (legal) windows 95b cd

i have posted the contents of the cdboot3 bootdisk's (that *had* worked in the aptiva) config.sys and autoexec.bat files

so: i have a bootDisk (cdboot3) that works to boot the pc... but the bootdisk does not give cd-rom drive support on the aptiva whereas it does give cd-rom drive support on another win95b machine.
the cd-rom works in windows, and in the dos prompt in windows on the aptiva
so i've ruled out the boot floppy disk, the windows 95B cd (purcha$ed), the cd-rom drive on the aptiva.
the problem appears to lie in the aptiva (and likely this is due to a problem with the user ... me

thanks for the help and also the patience!
sincerely
Tanya

 

Guess I misunderstood what you're trying to do; thought you wanted the CD to boot the computer. Your first suspicion is probably correct all along. Zander's advice is also on target so I will bow out but watch how things go.

 

hi sparrow,
thank you for replying!

which suspicion? -- this one?

i've lost track lol

i just had a brain wave ((i hope) or possibly loss of oxygen) which is the following:
if the msdos drivers for the cd-rom are commented out, they are not loaded.
HOWEVER, if they are loaded (the correct drivers) then the cmos settings are set. since the cmos (li battery keeps track of the settings (i.e. the drivers -- the basic ones)) then NEXT boot, the cmos should recall what and where the cd-rom drivers are???
does this make any sense?
i hope so...
thanks!

 

tanya

Correct; however windows commented them out because it's supposed to have built-in drivers and those in the startup files aren't required.

No, those drivers loaded by config.sys are only loaded into RAM and are lost when power is off. The cmos (also called BIOS) holds only a program that was installed at the factory that checks for bootable disks in the order you specify and runs the boot record program that starts the OS on the disk.

Click on this link to see an extensive discussion of (what I perceive to be) your question.

 

Wow! That's exactly what I thought the problem was, too! I'm going to make a pitcher of martinis -- stirred, not shaken.

Jerry

 

Jerry
I take it you haven't figured this out yet. I'm not sure what to tell you. If the boot disk contains all of the necessary files for the cdrom it should recognize the drive. Evidently it has the files if the disk works on another computer. Don't see anything out of line in the config.sys or autoexec.bat. The only thing I can think of is that your bios isn't seeing the IDE controller card when you boot from a floppy disk. This doesn't really make sense though either because it works in Windows and I wouldn't think Windows would recognize it if the bios doesn't see it. Any hardware guru out there reading this have anything so say about this?????

I'll wait to see if somebody else has any idea on that. Until then, maybe we can get the cdrom working in DOS for you. First, check in your windows\command folder and see if idecdrom.sys and mscdex.exe are there. If they aren't, copy the ones from your boot floppy to that folder. Then, go here and follow the instructions given. The instructions given are for when you click start>shutdown>restart in msdos mode (or whatever it is, sorry, I don't remember what the exact term is). If you wanted to run DOS by booting the computer and during the boot process press f8 and then choose DOS prompt only and have cdrom support, you'd have to add the mscdex line to your autoexec.bat instead of the dosstart.bat. If you're entering DOS mode by the start>shutdown route, use the dosstart.bat as the article says. Give this a try and let us know if it works.

As an after thought, has the cdrom always been connected to the IDE controller card or was it at one time connected to the motherboard?