Bad Fan?

I put this in this forum because I believe it is hardware related. And I have no idea what else to title it.

When I first booted this machine this AM I heard a fairly strong Humming sound.

When it did get booted I only had about half of the stuff that should be in the systray along with the message that my AV was out of date. ( it was )

I checked Startup Cop and sure enough only 4 items out of 10-12 were loaded.

With a bit more checking the hum seend to be coming from the fan on the side of the case. The fan also has ( did have ) a red, blue and green light. I believe one of them was out. So I shut down, removed the side cover and unplugged the fan. I also noticed that it was pugged into the same power connector that went to the HD.

I restarted the machine and same problem with systray existed. So figuring that at this point I had nothing to lose I did a system restore. ( I had made a new RP yesterday ) ALL seems to be fine and back to normal. ( at this time )

Now my Question.

Am I correct in my thinking that the fan is bad and was taking power away from the HD ?

BillyBob

 

I think I may have experienced the same. My results may differ. What I did to troubleshoot.

1. Take the case cover off and let the system cool off for a while.
2. Turn the power on (with the case off) and kneel down next to the case to see where the humming is coming from.

I have had incidents where the FAN for the cpu was going bad, and where the exhaust FAN was going bad. Not neccesarily the same box.

At your own risk and just a suggestion, use your finger to stop the exhaust FAN and/or CPU fan temporarily. If the humming stops at this point, then I'd say it was a FAN issue, with respect to the hum.

You will also be able to tell if the HD is going bad by simply putting a finger on the HD while hearing the hum. You should feel some abnormal vibration from the HD.

One other note. My home PC is a P4 3Ghz. I have one of those $15 exhaust FANs (soon to be replaced). I noticed my PC making a hum which turned out to be a vibration. My PC sits in a rack and was not firmly mounted. Adjusting the box made the hum go away. The FAN will be replaced because the cheap-ass fan uses bearing not magnetic's. It sounds like a jet sometimes.

You may also want to make sure all the screws are tight. This could account for any excessive vibration.

As for the taskbar icons, I think this is un-related and coincidental...but still needs attention. What does event-viewer show...any errors ?

 

24jedi

Thanks for the reply.

Maybe and maybe not. But could be. I just DO NOT KNOW. That is why I am here. I can not think of a better place to ask. Because I agree with you that IT COULD be just a fluke. Or it could be something else. I think I do need to watch things carefully for awhile.

Event viewer shows NO ERRORS for at least two days. It was cleared early in the day two days ago.

Look back and you see will where I mentioned the fan being hooked to the same power connector as the HD.

Also when I did remove the side panel there was NO DOUBT as to where the hum was coming from. And if one of the light was shorted out, that could create a problem also.

Finger on CPU Fan seems to be Vibration free. The heatsink is not even warm to the touch. But the case is open right now too.

Now I gotta go see what is wrong with a WIRED phone that is not working right. From what I see at first glance is that Ol' BillyBob here was not careful when he staples the cord to the wall.

I think I will just shut everything down for the day and go back to bed and start over tomorrow.

BillyBob

 

I too have had this problem in the past. Yes the bad fan did take power away from the HD demanding more amperage to run. I no longer connect any extra devices to the hardrive connectors.
Just recently had a machine that was cutting off , slow to boot, then no boot. Turns out the processor went south. First AMD for me in 10 years.

 

Thanks for the reply.

As of right now I have nothing better to blame it on .

And now that I have run it for awhile I see that it behaving better overall than it has for a few days.

I usually don't either. But this time I guess I goofed.

BillyBob

 

Won't learn if I don't ask.

Another question be it wild or otherwise.

Could that bad fan have created a power problem in general ?

MY answer is YES !

I ask because yesterday my CDROM was not behaving very nicely either. But so far it seems OK today.

I am also getting Sounds where I have not had for awhile. Like when the ScreenSaver kicks in.

Are there other thing that I should keep an eye out for ?

BillyBob

 

Hi BB,

The power problem seemed to have caused things to go wrong with operating system (systray, etc.) and so may have scrambled some files on the HDD. I would run a few diagnostics on the HDD. Run chkdisk to check the file system and look for possible bad sectors. You may want to get the diagnostics utilities from the HDD manufacturer's website and check it with those.

About the only test you can run on the PSU is to check the voltages with a multimeter. While the system is idling (say, boot into the BIOS), check the voltages on a spare power connector. The yellow wire is +12 volts, the red +5 volts, the black is ground. The voltages can vary to some extent without adverse effect, but should be close to 12.0 and 5.0. I have read that + or - 1 volt is OK, but I think that at 1 volt difference I would be considering another power supply.

There may also be voltage readout in the BIOS and Everest and Sandra (in my signature) can give readouts. Use them as a guide only (example, Sandra reports my -12V voltage as -8.41V, if I was concerned I would test it with a multimeter). Use the BIOS readings as most accurate.

Along with what the others have said, I would replace any similar fans that may still be in the machine.

Matt

 

Ask and Ye shall receive.

Thank you all

I am on my way to see what Everest has to say.

mattman

Your reply WILL BE printed out ASAP so that I can go over easier. I have already run chkdsk and it reported no problems. But I would bet #100 dollar that it would have if I had run in before I did the system restore.

As I mentioned before. It is running much better than it has for a day or two.

But that will not stop me from doing more checking.

Thanks again from a bit happier;
BillyBob

 

Hate to rain on the parade, but its very doubtful your fan caused what is being attributed to it. If it was a chipset cooler or a CPU fan, thats a different story, but a case (chasis) fan (and I'll assume it was a standard 80 mm with two wires to a molex connector) - highly unlikely. Want some proof?
Hook it back up and try to re-create the same problems.

 

Rockster2U my Friend, I was already raining on my own parade before I read your reply. PLEASE DO NOT ask me why. Because I do not know. Just a gut feeling I had that something still was not right. Little flickers in the screen now and then maybe.

How about a fan but THE WRONG fan being accused.

This mistake may well be charged to TIMEING. And I got fooled and/or mis-led.

Yesterday when I took the side off the Humming stopped. The SLIGHT vibration stopped.

Did a System Restore and all was well for the rest of the day.

I had left the case side off just in case. When I started the machine this morning the HUM was back. So, using the suggestion by someone I did some check with Mr. Pointer. He pointed to something that I did not like.
Results;
You could make a Milkshake on the video card And it was WAY to HOT for just being turned. I can easily hold my finger on it now even after it has been on for almost an hour. And the NIC sitting next door was shaking like a feaf in the wind.

I just brushed the fan slightly with a finger and the noise and vibration stopped.

It seems to be OK through the day when I shut down for an hour or two. But sitting overnight is not so good.

Now a Question;

If the Video card is the real probelm ? Could that be why I only SAW part of the Systray Items. It does make me wonder because I had the AV Def out of date warning message and it worked to update the AV.

Or is it possible that video card on its' way South did it to me by messing up the boot process somewhere ?.

NEW VIDEO card will be installed TODAY My Wife has to go to the Doctor today and we will be within 1/2 mile of Wal-Mart.

BillyBob

 

I don't know if this is still the case with XP but back in the NT4 days, when you replaced a video card, you had to set the properties back to default before replacing the card.

You may not need to do this. You can probably just pop a new card in and go. Keep in mind that the old drivers will still be on the box.

I would probably pop the new card in, get it setup and then boot to safe mode. Once in safe mode go to device manager and uninstall the card and drivers from Device manager.

This should work fine.

 

Sorry to learn of your misfortune but you should be thankful that you may have isolated the problem. If that video card has a fan on it (sounds like it does) you may want to try cleaning the heatsink and replacing the fan. Its probably a 45 or 50mm fan so you're not going to find a replacement at Walmart, but it sounds like a bearing that is causing your "hot milkshake syndrome" and you know from yesterday's experience that the card still works.

If its not too late, and if you have a Sam's in the neighborhood, they have been selling XFX 5200 NVidia 8X AGP cards with 256Mb of DDR for $79 or $89 and I think its a system-wide SKU because I've seen them in 3 different markets in the last month. Those 5200's are pretty good for the money even though they are not the latest and greatest. You could do better on-line but for a quick "got to have it today" fix, I don't think you can do any better.

I remember a couple of years ago you posted somthing about high humidity and "mud-like" accumulation in your computer caused by dust build up coupled with the humidity. From time to time one can clean fan blades with alcohol dipped Q-tips but outrighr replacement is often the wiser course of action. One of the better shopping sites I use for fans is SVC and its darn tough to beat their price on Artic Cooling 80mm variable speed fans with the temperature probe. Nice, quiet and efficient.

Good luck with your repairs/replacement.

 

Thank you Rockster2U for your the great reply.

That is why I like this BBS because we can discuss things and points may be brought out that we do not even know about.

For instance i did not know that those fans were replaceable.

But now that I do I think I will look around and see if I can get one to have around as a spare card.

We do have a Sams across the river but it wuold be a few days before I could get there.

I did get I new card at Wal-Mart. I was very limited in time so I took what I could find. ( it looked OK ) I got an Asylum GeForceFX 5200 with 256mb. But everything I read on the box says Nvidia .

And one SPECIFIC instruction for the new card was. Do not let XP install new hardware if it finds it. ( I wouldn't anyway )

It is installed and looks like it is going to be OK. I will give it better test later when I see what is going to do with Links Golf. That is about the only thing we have ( I think anyway ) that realy taxes the Video card.

But seeing the changes ( even in this BBS ) that appear already, I wonder if the fan has been bad enough for awhile that it damaged the card. Remember I said it was TOO HOT to even touch when I frist turned in on ?

24jedi

I think that is till the proper ( better ) way to do it. Along with un-installing the drivers ( and RESTARTING windows at least once ) before removing the card. I have caused myself problems in the past when I did not remove the old first.

In my personal opinion No Way !! get the old out first.

Gotta get outta here and see what my new card is going to do ( or not do LOL )

BillyBob

 

New card in ( finally ) after a dozen other things got done. Thursday is a BUSY day for me.

All case parts reassembled and new cards is great. even better than the old.

Much quieter.
Bed Time.
Back in AM.

BillyBob

 

Excellent - glad to hear it.

 

BB, yes, good to hear.

Don't toss the old card. Suggest you look at replacing the fan and cleaning up the heatsink of the old card as Rockster said. It may make a good backup card or upgrade for another PC. It is still working, so it may only be medium-rare, not well done (watch for any strange happenings though).

Matt

 

Thnak you mattman for the idea. But I have already scraped it.

WHY ? You may ask.

1- I already have a couple of cards that were working fine but I just upgraded.

2-Because that card was HOT ( almost untouchable ) when I finally shut down and went to remove it. I think that may explain why this machine seemed to be mis-behaving at times. And I was blaming other things ( including Windows XP ) and Ol' BillyBob here for messsing up settings.

Also I should have paid more attention to WARNINGS from Links GOLF about a possible problem with 3D accelleration which WILL NOT run without it. That game plays MUCH better and smoother. Can't beat my Wife but that is another story

3-Now that the new card is in I see things that do not happen now. Things like MUCH smoother Scrolling. Screens now SNAP in and out rather than fade in and out.

I send the next bit of this reply to ALL READERS as something to think about when making changes. And I do not care if some Moderator extracts it, modifys it a bit if needed and posts it somewhere as a reminder to ALL.

As of 23.07 last evening The job WAS NOT COMPLETE

Again you may ask WHY.

Number one reason why not is SYSTEM RESTORE. Which many users forget about. ( including yours truley at times )

I checked this AM and there were of course RPs from a day to two ago. There was also the one made by Windows before the FIRST ( failed ) Attempt to install the new card drivers. That turned out to be a BAD CDROM Drive. The new one that has been sitting here for a week got installed. Another reason for updating SR. Different make of CDROM Drive.

Then there was another one made before the next attempt. I think attempting to use this one would have been worse than the first one.

Well anyhow. System Restore has been shut down and restarted. And I now have a RP as this system is not as it was ( messed up )

I think if I had tried to use any of the old ones I would have been kicking myself from here to Hellsinki. ( where that is I forgot but a town by that name does exist I believe.)

But even if I do have some things that may not be quite right the major repairs are in the RPs.

Ok Folks. I guess that is enough rambling for now. Time to refill the Coffee cup and read the morning paper.

BillyBob

 

mattman

I have nothng against your idea of saving for backup .

BUT !!!

Having dug the old card out of the trash doing a bit more checking on it I do see a couple of dis-colorations.

And by seing and knowing this I do not think it would it would make any sense to attempt to use it in another machine. I think it MIGHT do more damage than good. Like maybe using too much power ?

BTW. I am finding it hard to believe the difference ( much better ) in the behavior of this machine. I have to learn how to handle the Swing gauge in Links all over again. MUCH SMOOTHER and more accurate.

Would the difference between 128 and 256 ram have that much effect ?

BillyBob

 

My hardware magazine reports no advantage for having 256Mb of RAM over 128Mb. Their tests on identical cards with those amounts of RAM show identical results. There are no applications (read games) that will require, or take advantage of, more than 128Mb.

The heatsink and fan system are very important. There are some high-end cards being released with a "passive" (no fan) cooling system that relies on oil transfer of heat around a radiator system. They reported that these cards did not work well compared to cards with fans and that they needed to be cooled for quite some time before they could be touched. No fan means there should less noise, but you need more air movement through the case to compensate, which would mean more case fans and so defeat the purpose (??). There are some cards that exhaust the heated air directly out the back of the case. I like this idea because the heated air is not being used to cool other components in the case.

The basic capabilities of the card would be important. You mentioned 3D acceleration. The card must be able to cope with the demands of the game. You can reduce the settings in the game to compensate for a card with low-end capabilities. If you run at the top end of it's capabilities, you risk over taxing it. It sounds like your new card has a lot more capacity in those areas.

Matt

 

My challange has been accepted.

My Wife and I will put the card through the toughest test we have for it.

18 holes at St. Andrews over our LAN..

We both love that course. But the sand traps there are not just a sand pits. They are real SAND/BALL TRAPS/BUNKERS. Some of them look like they are at 6 feet deep with Vertical sides. And I have been hit with my own ball trying to get out of one.

Last but not least. Thanks for the help.

BillyBob