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Discussion in 'Other PC Software' started by BillyBob, 2003/05/15.

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  1. 2003/05/15
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    I have noticed that on all of my dirves in the root folder there is a file

    avg6db_f.dat

    On C: there is also a avg6db_n.dat

    What are these ? They also ( I think it is them ) that show as unmovable when I run Defrag.

    BillyBob
     
  2. 2003/05/15
    reboot

    reboot Inactive

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    It's a file that AVG uses to index what's on the drive.
    It updates itself as files are added or removed and scanned.
    If a file is put on the drive, and contains a virus, the file is updated across the system, so that the virus cannot propogate across drives/partitions.
     

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  4. 2003/05/15
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks

    Let me see if I understand that correctly.

    If a file gets put onto C: and it is Virus infected. A message is sent ( via those files ) to the other partitions that says " Do not let this nasty into your house ".

    It also loks like that are all updated when the Deff are updated too. All files have 5/14/03 on them.

    Deffs were updated yesterday.

    BillyBob
     
  5. 2003/05/15
    brett

    brett Inactive Alumni

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    Last edited: 2003/05/15
  6. 2003/05/15
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    Thanks brett

    Not real goods news.

    Not really unexpected news.

    But not bad enough to make me go back to Norton.

    Let us look at this from another angle.

    The price of a decent AV software is no where near what an infection could cost. And looking at it that way even Norton is good.

    At least that is what I think.

    BillyBob
     
  7. 2003/05/17
    miniB

    miniB Inactive

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    Billy Bob

    I am following your experience when changing from a long time Norton user to another AV ...... ( this is me also but have not taken the step yet )

    Do I detect that AVG is not quite what it seemed. I agree with the pay for the software scenario. If the higher the price meant the better the program then I would not quibble. I am just concerned that you may now feel different about changing.

    There are so many opinions it is almost impossible to decide. AVG gets good marks with some - others like PC-cillan ....... Do they all just have to have bloat to make them work effectively ???

    Is it the fact that AVG is spreading over partitions that concerns you about this ? Hope you don't mind me asking. :eek:
     
  8. 2003/05/17
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    Not if its' intent is to keep a Virus from getting to other partitions.

    It will take someone more familiar with AVG to explain better.

    No problem with asking.

    Do I detect that AVG is not quite what it seemed

    Did I write something that leads you to ask that ?

    It is not that Norton did not work but the fact that it was getting TOO deep into the system and is ( or can be ) OS version specific. Every time I upgraded Windows I had to upgrade ( or should have ) Norton also. It was backwards complatable ( sometimes ) but not forward compatable. But that may have as much to do with Windows changes as anything.

    At this time AVG does not appear to be that way. And one thing that I can say for sure. Since installing AVG my system seems faster and seems a little more stable. Which I believe is directly related to AVG NOT getting into the actual system files. It is all in its own separate folder. And uses hust its own files and not system files.

    As to opinions etc.

    That my Friend is a fact. No guesswork there.

    What we use for AV software or Firewall depends on several things.

    1--How well the kid plays with other kids on the block.

    2--Personal preference.

    3--Use what you as the user feel comfortable with.

    One important thing ( to me anyway ) is how well the software leeps updates available.

    But even if the updates are available and the user does not go get them that can make the software look bad if a Virus does sneak in.

    I also know users that refuse to allow AV to check incoming e-mail. My neighbor is one of them. He got a Virus and then wanted me to hook it up to my LAN to clean and update.

    Of course the first thing he did was to blame NAV. I found that he had not checked for updates for at least a month. Well, if I wrote my answer to him I would deffinenty get kicked off here for the use of FOUL language. For some reason he is not speaking to me yet. But it did cost him $200 to have a Professional clean up things.

    So I believe the bottom line to be;

    It is not just the software itself that matters. It can be how it is setup and/or allowed to run. And of coures kept up to date.

    Also as was suggested in another thread * somewhere * I do not reply on just one AV program. At least once a week I run one or more Online scanners. Start he scan and go eat dinner.

    I am on Cable Internet so I do have to take a few extra precausions. ( even with the Router )

    BillyBob
     
    Last edited: 2003/05/17
  9. 2003/05/17
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    I also run SpyBot and Ad-adware ( in that order ) weekly.

    Again at dinner time works great.

    BB
     
    Last edited: 2003/05/17
  10. 2003/05/17
    miniB

    miniB Inactive

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    Thank you

    Hi Billybob

    Thank you for taking so much time to detail your reply.

    My reason to wonder if you were having 2nd thoughts was just on the comment was just the ' not really good news ' I have to apologise on this one as I now realise that you added but NOT bad enough to make me go back to Norton :eek:

    I really am interested in the fact that you feel your PC has been freed up on getting rid of NAV. I totally agree that you have to get the latest version etc
    Not that the lastest version is totally compatible with XP ...... experience on this one.

    I think there must be a neighbour like yours in every part of the world :rolleyes: I have one the very same - strange he also ran McAfee .... asked me to update it one day - only to discover he had never updated it & the download was so big it would have been a lot easier to buy the new version !

    I on the other hand make sure everyday I search for & download updates. I am a bit paranoid on this but rather safe than sorry.

    I run SpyBot ( updated ) Anti-Torjan ( updated ) have used online checks also. Even used the ones that send you fake viruses to test NAV - also run leak tests on my Firewall - I am exhausted after all this

    :eek:

    I have just recently become aware of just how much Norton takes over that is why I have been following threads just to do my homework before I make my mind up on the best for me. I reckon as I had NIS from day one I thought it was the one and only - I now know a lot more & am getting closer to taking the step of someone completely new. I also need to find a reliable Firewall.

    One thing I have noticed - Symantec are not just as helpful via e-mail as they used to be ! Another thing is that they are sending me a LOT of offers as a long standing customer !!!!! Just today they offered me 40% off all software - last week they would post it free with a 10 - 20 % discount............... I just wonder if they are starting to wake up & smell the coffee ....... not just depending on the huge name they have made for themsleves.
    They also are affliated now ( for some time ) with McAfee ( they still keep the brand )

    They have also removed the online virus removal tools. Not that I had a virus but it was on the bottom of one of their e-mails. They have a link to somewhere else if you need this service.

    Thanks again for making things clearer to a muddled up miniB ;)
     
  11. 2003/05/17
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    OK I must clear up something here.

    I am still running the Firewall part of NIS. SO FAR I seem to have no problem with it. But due to the Router, most of it work is Internet out-going or LAN related of which I have control over. I DO NOT have it set for Auto create rules.

    If my wife wants to play cards or Golf with me over the LAN I must give her permission. And it is in my best interests to do so.

    And if need be I can put the Internet Security ( Firewall ) back in without installing NAV.

    :) IF I watch what the heck I am doing that is :)

    I also have Norton System Works out of which I am only using the Utilities part right now. And even they might be leaving soon if they do not behave.

    I am still with 98 SE so things may change if and/or when I go to XP. Which at this time see no need for.

    Btw. RE: The avg6db_f.dat files that I refered to in my first post. I see they were updated after I ran a system scan today.

    BillyBob
     
    Last edited: 2003/05/17
  12. 2003/05/17
    miniB

    miniB Inactive

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    Interesting

    Hi

    I note you have the Firewall bit - a friend of mine had the firewall installed & then tried to install Panda AV software - there seemed to have been a conflict with Norton ( but then this is on XP again !)

    I am just watching what Norton is blocking i.e. if it is coming in or going out of my PC.

    I do not need game access or anything like that. I must be quite boring as I just use the Internet to research something
    ( AV's ????? ) & shop ! It is more like the World's library on my desk.

    I find lots of things related to my hobbies which I would not be able to find in Belfast.
    I use a ADSL connection - I think this has a some sort of Firewall security.

    I am pleased that your the file updated after your scan.

    Thanks again for all your help ;)
     
  13. 2003/05/17
    mflynn

    mflynn Inactive

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    Couple of things.....

    First MiniB, you are becoming paranoid. You do not really need to update daily. If you are becoming "tired" then do it every few days. Keep this up and all you will be doing is updating tweaking and watching the Virus scanner and Firewall and have no time for real computing.

    Get a Life! In this case a "computer life "! Relax and smell the URL's! Smile.

    Second: For all reading this thread. More on System Works.

    Me, at work, clients office, to setup 2K terminal services and Windows update 10 workstations at a remote office.

    Most were stright forward but I came accross this 1 computer the oldest in the building. A 266mhz 64 meeg ram. It was so slow I actually started things and went to work on another computer while it was doing things.

    Finally decided it was just too slow even for a 266. So (noticed it had system works) but at first decided to leave it alone as I knew it would drag it down but not this much. 5 minutes to boot up. 6 -8 minutes to shut down

    Cleaned temps deeply, removed old programs, cleaned registry with 3 different Reg cleaners in a row. No luck so finally decided to remove System works.

    Did it in safe mode done all the reg cleans again and additionally a manual for the system works entries. It then dawned on me that the computer was faster in safe mode than full mode.

    When I rebooted to Full mode the user of this machine was standing behind me. When it almost instantly booted up, he said "WHOA" it ain't never booted that fast.

    I let him set down and give it a run of workaday apps. He was amazed. I was impressed also. I would liken it to a tug of war where the other side turns loose.

    Reconfirms my opinion that it eats CPU cycles like Pirannahs eat flesh! It will and does do the same on these new 2-3G processors but the raw horsepower is there to make it less noticable. But it is adding a heavy load.

    From now on I dub this "System Worse "!

    Mike
     
  14. 2003/05/17
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    Hi Mike

    Welcome aboard.

    10 to 1 that NSW was flying on Auto Pilot. Namely Norton System Killer. ( OOPS !! I mean System Doctor ) Any software of the type that is allowed to install with default setting can cause problems. I do not install with default. Or at least change the default after installing.

    I gained 3-4 startup resources just by dumping NAV.

    I do agree to NSW slowing things down.

    But ( I think ) only if it is allowed to fly on auto pilot and ( and I see now ) NAV is not loaded.

    If the Norton System Doctor is allowed to run it WILL almost stop a system at times.

    I personaly do not know why I invested ( actually wasted ) my money on NSW 2003. NU 2001 and NIS 2003 were doing just fine. Money would have been beter spent on an 80gig HD.

    I was having the same problem of slower up and down before I dumped NAV. Since then no problem. There is a part of NAV that does checks things at boot up and shutdown.

    OH. Did I happen to mention that dumping NAV removed at least three items from the startup list ?

    And if NAV it set to check floppy at shutdown it may hang up the shutdown FOREVER.

    I will be able to provide a little more info on NAV vs AVG in a day or two. I have my ANCIENT Cyrix 150 that I am about ready to dumb NAV and put AVG on. If no more than see what changes.

    Hmmm!!! If it made this 1.2mhz speed up what will it do to the other.

    I do agree that on some systems Symantec products are useless. On some others it is OK but some other software of the type may be useless.

    Please remember that I never said Norton was the best. Just that I never had a problem with it. At least I did not hink I did. But now I see that I may have had.

    BillyBob
     
  15. 2003/05/18
    miniB

    miniB Inactive

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    Hi to both

    I think I will take the advice & stop being just so paranoid as it really was taking over my day. I have just installed the new PSP 8 and haven't even used it as I was spending tooooooooooo much time making sure I was safe ! I have Adobe to install on my LT ( again not done because of making sure I was safe ..... )

    Today I am going to do things I need to do on the PC & then browse a little with my Bookmarks :) I will also need time to get some of my hobby underway again ........

    I note that mflynn uninstalled in Safe Mode - is this a much better method to uninstall applications no longer needed ?

    Thankfully I held back from ordering NSW 2003. I have 2002 but did not install it with my XP ( different with 98se )
    I can remember one of the previous versions had ' Crash Guard ' I had just got a PC then & thought this would be wonderful :eek:

    It caused more crashes than there would have been. I do not think they have this included now. It was then I learned not to let the Dr monitor my PC in the background etc ( I have enough with my own Dr monitoring me ! )

    I must agree that I was really getting myself bogged right down with Trojans etc Even my dad was worried that I might exterminate him :eek:

    Will try to get back to enjoying my computers & learning little bits everyday. I have leanrt on thing BillyBob - about Norton checking at boot & shutdown - just realised that I have to wait for total shutdown at times - this just could be why ~ Thanks for this advice.

    Sorry for being so paranoid ~ I may not be big myself but I am very big when it comes to stress & worry .........:eek:
     
  16. 2003/05/18
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    Billy Bob -

    You can free more resources by getting rid of any software firewalls period. You really do not need them, and ALL of them are easy to get past and ALL of them are pretty much useless unlesss one wants to have some more control over OUTBOUND traffic. In your case, you have a NAT router, which is far more secure and efficient than any software firewall.

    Your Linksys router has a logging feature that will index all incoming and outbound traffic. You can even set it up so these logs get forwarded to any computer on the network, e.g. your computer. You can download the Linksys Log Viewer (FREE) and the logs automatically are sent to it for your viewing pleasure.

    note: The Log Viewer will put a shortcut in Startup Folder and possibly Current Version\Run in the registry. You can safely stop it from running in the background and launch it from the Start Menu at any time, as well as close it out completely.

    Here's a good read about software firewalls and their effectiveness/value.
     
  17. 2003/05/18
    mflynn

    mflynn Inactive

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    Mornin Mini
    Well afternoon to you

    Good!

    Just keep behind it every few days or weekly. Don't try to do it all at once.

    I usually run these things while doing other things. Chores around the house, reading or watching TV etc. If you leave your computer on 24/7 then leave something running when you go to bed or work.

    Remember when you do these things rotate between AVG one week and one of the onlines the next. But at the first sign of trouble (trouble meaning something strange or unusual that you may not think is a virus) then Shotgun it by running everything. Especially if for example AVG finds a virus, even if it cleans it run then others.

    Here are a couple of fixes I may not have given you before. These only need to be run once unless you reinstall or goback or system restore. If you rerun them anyway if you are not sure they will tell you they are already installed.

    http://nsclean.com/dsostop.html
    http://nsclean.com/htastop.html
    http://nsclean.com/0click.html
    http://nsclean.com/socklock.html
    http://nsclean.com/sclean.html

    Lastly, I always uninstall most especially the bigger system type programs that run at startup from safe mode.

    In safe mode they cannot run and you can get them more completely. The Reg Cleaners that need to be run also run and clean better in safe mode.

    All the things you are doing, virus scanning (and second opinions by using online virus scanners) firewall, keep OS up to date, expoit fixes such as above and of course spy/adware removal. These put you in the 95 percentile of safty as compared to the rest of the computing world.

    You see on this boad and others like it it appears that everyone else in the world is already doing all these things. But in fact we are a very small minority. 95% of computer users think that the virus scanner that came installed is all they need. They never think of it at all, never even update. Untill that is it hits them between the eyes. You would be surprised at how many have no virus scanner at all.

    So you see, you are aware (that is important in itself) and you have taken measures you have the tools (this BBS being one of the tools) so that if something does get thu you can handle it.

    So I say "stick to you decision to get back to computing and work and fun" .

    Mike
     
  18. 2003/05/18
    mflynn

    mflynn Inactive

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    BillyBob

    I disagree with Tony, who I know to be very knowledgeable as I have read many of his execllent posts. So no offence Tony!

    Yes most Firewalls can be penetrated, but so can most Routers. I will bet you that 99% of LinkSys routers out there still have the factory default username/password. And there are other ways to breech them.

    But additionally you do wish to monitor outgoings!

    But yes if you use a "good" firewall it should also be resource light. No need to expend an inordinate amount here.

    My point is this. I may know how to break thu one door (the firewall) but not the router or the router but not the firewall. So maybe I know how to break thru both, but now I gotta break thru 2 doors. Like a theif I just might say ah h** this takes to long and is to much trouble.

    The saying that Firewall software is "Snakeoil" don't stand up when you have had something get thru the router and the firewall catches it. As I have seen.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: 2003/05/18
  19. 2003/05/18
    TonyT

    TonyT SuperGeek Staff

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    First off, no offense taken! I respect one's right to their opinion, afterall, that's what a discussion forum is for, offering opinions and thus resulting in an increased knowledge.

    Now, I am interested in what you saw get past a router and caught by software firewall. Was it an actual program or file, or was it just a port scan packet? Did it arrive via email or a trusted application?

    My point is this:

    If one has a router properly configured and the rest of their system properly configured (and I agree that most do not understand how to do this) then pretty much nothing will get past a router UNLESS one is purposely being attacked.

    Now, the chances of a DIRECT attack are very very slim for a home user. Port scans are not attacks. An attack would be someone creating and assembling custom packets designed to cause the router or firewall to fail to do it's job and thus make a connection to the system at a designated port and then take control of a part or all of the targeted system. These attacks are very rare and most lack the knowledge how to do that and they must be done via a unix based OS. (there are certain windows apps that can simulate such attacks or exploit misconfigured networks such as those that use TCP for file & print sharing, but 'misconfigured network' is the keynote.

    For instance, I could connect to and take over any windows computer that has TCP bound to file & print sharing IF I too had TCP bound to file&print sharing and IF I wanted to become a criminal. Even if they were using a software firewall too! But again, 'misconfigured network' is the key. It would also include the use of password cracking tools. (another key to security is using good passwords, at least 8 characters long, with upper & lower case letters, at least one number and one symbol) Acronyms, names, addresses, & birthdate type passwords can be cracked in minutes, whereas a hacker will give up on strong passwords that may take up to a year or longer to crack)

    The main point I guess, is that a software firewall is good for the average user who does not understand and apply the basics and common sense security practices. BillyBob is an expert experienced user.

    All I run in my NAT firewall and log viewer. (I use the log viewer because as may users do, I get bored and will want to see who has been scanning me and more importantly, where my kids have been browsing! ) But, the firewall in the router is doing it's job and I let it. I don't need to pay much attention to it.
     
    Last edited: 2003/05/18
  20. 2003/05/18
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    Man O Man !!! Are we ever right back to the old standy.

    Personal AND machine Preference.

    I may like it but the machine don't. Or it can be the other way around.

    As to the reply by TonyT I do understand but at the same time dis-agree.

    And asmflynn pointed out I like the backup protection. If one misses the ball I hope the other catches it

    Like my use of NAV. It never gave me any real problems. But by giving in and trying something different I find it was loading the system down more than even I thought it was.

    BTW. I got Kerio sittin here waiting to be tried. ( next project )

    No matter what we do, there may be more than one way of doing it. Microsoft way, Mikes' way, Tonys' way and BillyBobs' way. And every darn one may be right or work just fine.

    You would expect newer software made by a well know maker to be better with each new version. That appears not to be so. And as far as I personaly am concerned that includes Microsoft.

    Maybe not due to just the software itself but also changes that Microsoft makes. And I bleieve we will all agree that Microsoft is doing its best to discourage the use of so called 3rd party software. But on the otherhand I am led to belive that the XP defrag is 3rd party. ( or a modification of same )

    That may be one reason that I am a little reluctant to go for XP. I could be wrong but, I may not have the flexability that I have with 98SE.

    And here again. Some say yes and some say no. But I can only wait till I do get XP installed and then see what gives. Others can give me ideas and/or suggestions as to what to do. But I will not know what reaction I will get until I try it. What works for someone else may not work for me. Or if it does work I may not be happy with it.

    Again this comes right back to my old standby. VARIABLES ( both Personal and Machine ) and how those variables are set up.

    With 98SE if I want something like OE to take a long walk of a short plank all I got to do is delete the folder. With XP I do not ( at this time ) think that is possible. But I sure will give it a good try.

    BUT. I if do have problems I sure know where to go ( come ) for HELP. And it ain't Microsoft either.

    BillyBob
     
  21. 2003/05/18
    BillyBob Lifetime Subscription

    BillyBob Inactive Thread Starter

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    That right there is a BIG, HUGH key.

    I know that GRC and Symantec both STRONGLY recommend that F&PS not be bound to TCP/IP.

    I have 3 ( sometimes 4 ) machines on my LAN. And NOTHING is bound to TCP/IP on any machine.

    But when I have suggested it to some users they think I am nuts.

    BillyBob
     
    Last edited: 2003/05/18
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