Apparent problems with All-in-Wonder 7500

Has anyone else had problems with ATI's All-In-Wonder 7500 Video Card? As noted elsewhere on this board, I've had trouble with my computer switching off, or programs closing, when I'm running games.

From the error messages I'm getting, it seems like the problem is due to the video card drivers. Overheating may be a problem, since the shutdowns seem to occur only when I've been playing the game for a while. But the problems seem to happen even when I've got the cover off the computer and a fan blowing into it.

I'm about to give up and buy another video card. But I like the TV tuner on the Aill-In-Wonder, and generally the card meets my needs. I don't want to spend the money for a new card and then have it not work any better.

Thanks.

 

It would be helpful to know what your OS is & Service Pack level if applicable, current driver version, MoBo and power supply. At present, your description is like the guy who calls a mechanic and says "my car won't run ", then asks for a reason why not, over the phone.

 

Something that might be a little hope for you is that with my 7500 (not an All in Wonder), I have had shutdowns due to badly installed drivers and programs(games) shutdown due to an out-of-date DirectX.

More questions. Have you worked on reinstalling the drivers? What sort of things have you tried so far? What is the history, has it done this since you got it? Did you have another video card installed before this one (on this install of Windows)?

Matt

 

Thanks for the messages. Some more information.

My computer runs Windows XP Home, with SP2 and otherwise up to date. The motherboard is a VIA P4PB, with a 1.6 GHz Pentium 4. Power supply is an Antec True430 (meaning 430W). Driver version for the ATI video card is 6.14.10.6505.

This computer is about 2 1/2 years old. This ATI All-in-Wonder 7500 is the only video card I've had installed. Initially I had no problems with the computer. About a year ago, I started to play games with it that use the video card more heavily. That's when the problem started to occur.

Now, after playing for a while, the computer will sometimes shut itself off, and automatically reboot. It does this now more often than it used to. In fact, sometimes now it will get so I can play the game for no more than five minutes at a time. On the other hand, sometimes I can play for hours at a time with no problem.

I've only had the problem with games. Watching TV does not pose a problem. Neither does using Word or the Internet. Heating may have something to do with it, since the problem seems to occur only when the temperature inside the case increases to over 32 degrees C (as measured by my case temperature probe).

I've tried replacing all the video drivers, several times in fact. I've used the Driver Cleaner Pro program to make sure that I deleted the old driver. I've also physically removed the video card and re-installed it. Finally, I've cleaned the dust out of the heatsink on my CPU and made sure all the fans are working properly.

As to DirectX, I got what I think is the latest version, 9.0c. The driver that I got from the ATI Website is the latest one that they list as working with the 7500.

Any ideas? Thanks again for your responses.

 

Did check/clean the heatsink and fan of the video card.

See this thread:
http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=37021

Investigate your CPU temps.

Matt

 

I have both an ATI 7000 and an ATI 9200. Haven't had any problem with them.

If you are trying to re-install just the drivers try getting the 'Catalyst' (spelling) download from ATI instead. It will have the drivers in it.

As to heat... Just cause a probe says your running at 32 degrees dosen't mean that the video card is. Next time it shuts down try touching the heat sink on the card (carefully). It should not be hot to the touch.

 

It sure sounds like heat is the primary contributing factor and there are some pretty decent alternatives available to replace the stock heatsink on that particular card with something that will make heat a non-issue.

I've got a couple of 7500 AIW's and my wife's machine is similarly equipped - I am using what is now almost a two year old driver disc that I bought from ATI after encountering all kinds of problems with any of the original driver discs. Also, always had problems with their website drivers even though one would think they'd be the same. Two other issues that may or may not be related are variances in AGP voltage and the quality of your system memory. Your PSU is a good one so you should be able to rule that out but you might want to keep an eye on this while under load. As to memory, it can effect a lot of things and while it might be a stretch, it warrants investigation if any problems persist after you have your temperature issues resolved.

You might want to start here for some ideas.



edit after Jay's post above: I also have a 9800 AIW running on my FX-53 and did a quick driver rollback after the most recent ATI driver upgrade trashed my video. Won't be messing with that again anytime soon.

 

It sure seems that, as Rockster suspects, heat is the principal cause of the shutdowns. Shutdowns occur only after I play a game for a while, and the temperature from the case probe gets up in the 32 degree plus range.

But after trying to get the computer to crash for the last few days, I'm starting to wonder whether heating of the video card is the culprit. Here's why.

First, as jaylach suggested, I felt the video card after shutdown. It was slightly warm to the touch, but certainly not hot. Second, the game that I play to test this out -- Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds -- does not use the video card much. It can run on my laptop, which has no separate video card but just a VGA chip.

So I wonder is I have a CPU heating problem. Using Everest, I see that my CPU temperature gets in the 45 degree range when it crashes. (It's hard to tell the temperature right when it crashes, since the computer shuts itself off.)

Mattman referred me to a thread about CPU overheating. That thread shows the need for good heat transfer between CPU and heatsink. I noticed when I had the heatsink and fan off my CPU for cleaning that some of the black paint or whatever on the heatsink contact point had transferred over to the CPU. So I doubt if it is a good heat transfer point between the CPU and the heatsink. But I do not know if 45 degrees is going to be hot enough to cause a shutdown.

I also wonder if it could be a driver problem. Perhaps, as some people have done, I should go back to an old driver, such as the one on the CD I got when I first got the video card 2 1/2 years ago. From other people's experience, driver problems with this particular video card seem far from rare. On the other hand, it is strange that the problem would only occur after several hours of use.

The main thing that makes the problem hard to solve is that it happens rarely. It's very difficult to pin down the conditions that lead up to a crash. I'll keep an eye on voltages and check out memory as well.

Maybe the best idea is to continue to keep an eye on the heating, and try going back to some earlier drivers for the video card. I may take Rockster's suggestion and get a heatsink/fan for the video card -- still thinking about that.

Thanks for the help. Any and all comments and suggestions welcomed.

 

Daanii, you have removed the heatsink from the CPU. It is very important that every time the heatsink is removed from the CPU that the old thermal compound is completely removed and replaced. This is not an "easy" process because you need to ensure there are no air bubbles in the compound.

Here are the instructions for Arctic Silver: http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm
Arctic Silver is recognised as one of the best compounds, although it is probably one of the most expensive as well.

The only time the heatsink should be removed is when you are replacing the CPU or you suspect a problem with the thermal compound. To clean the heatsink, I only remove the fan and clean it in place.

I think you should replace the thermal compound ASAP. Damage may be being done to the CPU.

Matt

 

Mattman, thanks very much for the warning. My CPU heatsink came with a thermal pad -- a square of "heat interface material" -- attached to it. The installation instructions said not to use any other thermal compound with the heatsink. Does that sound right?

When I had the heatsink off, I did see that some of that material had transferred to the CPU itself. Perhaps that was because I removed the heatsink. (Won't do that again.) Do you think I should get another heatsink/fan for the CPU? My current heatsink/fan is just the stock Intel set that came with my Pentium 4.

As I said, my CPU was peaking at about 45 degrees (according to the Everest readout). Is that a dangerous level? (By the way, I'm using another computer for now until I get this resolved, so my CPU on that computer will be resting quietly.)

Thanks for your help.

 

YES, YES, YES!!!!!! Get some thermal gel on that processor!!!!!!!!

Never used Arctic Silver but have heard it's very good. Another brand that seems good is OCZ Ultra.

I suggest using alcohol to clean the old stuff off. Read the docs for it as left in an above post and be patient. It's an easy process but MUST be done carefully. And remember that too much gel isn't good either.

Just a couple of weeks ago I was having a thermal problem on my system. When Asus Probe told me that I hit 50C I quit playing and used some OCZ Ultra. dropped 10C after a few days. Now running at a steady 39C to 42C.

Just don't expect full effect imeadiatly. Takes a few days for the gel to 'set in'.

 

That is what it is supposed to do. Pads have a wax coating that melts in to "microscopic valleys" on both the heatsink and suface of the CPU. Read through the Arctic Silver instructions/tutorial, they are the best. Even if you do not end up using Acrtic Silver, the method should be the same.

The stock heatsink and fan should be adequate if you have applied the thermal compound well. They are what Intel recommend and should be the best value because of the high volumes that go through. Only get another heatsink/fan if you seem to be having temperature problems after you have tried reinstalling the current one.

Matt

 

The Arctic Silver thermal compound I found on the Internet costs about $6 for a tube that is supposed to do 30 CPUs. I've heard complaints about it being very expensive. Am I looking at the right stuff?

 

I've personally have had problems with vendors overclocking the CPU through the BIOS and selling it as a faster CPU. Might want to check that. I was having the same problems with overheating which I thought was my vid card and turned out to be the CPU which is now set to the right speed and I have had no unexpected reboots.

 

Artic Silver products:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/products.htm
You may be looking at the "Arctic Alumina" that comes in a small dispenser. It should be OK for your requirements. The "Arctic Silver 5" is the expensive, top of the range material and is suited to CPUs that run hot (some of the AMD CPUs).

Make sure it is NOT an adhesive.

Matt

 

Mattman, it looks like I can get 3.5 grams (enough for 3 to 10 CPUs) of Arctic Silver 5 for US$6 at www.hardcorecooling.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=122&HS=1

I'll give it a try and see what happens.

I'm not sure any longer that heat is the problem causing my computer to hang up occasionally. I'm going to try some older All in Wonder video card drivers, as suggested by Rockster2U (it looks like Rockster2U did decide to leave the board -- too bad).

 

MrOrange,

Thanks for your suggestion about overclocking. I put together my system myself, so I know it's not overclocked.

But I am keeping an eye on CPU temperature. It does seem like the CPU is getting hot, but not the video card. So if it is a heating problem, it may well be the CPU.

 

The Arictic Silver 5 would be a good deal. Your P4 has a large area to cover so don't expect much more than 3.

I let my first try at the procedure be experimental and got a few degrees reduction. I took off the heatsink again and was "serious" this time . When I mastered a "paper thin" layer, I found more than a 10 degree (C) reduction in temp (working on an AMD CPU). What you want is only to (completely) fill in that space between the two plates.

Your current temperatures may not look worrying, but if there are air bubbles trapped around the surface you could be getting "hot spots" that are overheating sections of the processor. A good thermal compound combined with a good application technique should do the trick.

Let us know how it goes

Matt