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A mix (or a mess) of a SATA and a PATA

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Christer, 2004/02/29.

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  1. 2004/02/29
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Hello all!

    In other threads, I have discussed a computer owned by a friend and this is the hardware setup:

    Motherboard ASUS P4P800 De Luxe
    1 Seagate Barracuda 160 GB SATA on SATA1
    1 Seagate Barracuda 160 GB PATA in a front mounted rack, alone on IDE1 as master or slave (have tried both).
    2 opticals on IDE2 as master and slave.

    The HDDs are the same but with different interfaces and the reason for the mix is that the front mounted rack should be usable for older HDDs as well.

    In BIOS the boot order can be specified and it is set to Floppy - Optical - HDD.
    For Optical, the order can be specified between the two opticals and for HDD, the order can be specified between the SATA and the PATA.

    It has been set to boot from the SATA first (in the order between the HDDs) and everything works fine. If the PATA is removed from the rack, the computer still boots but when the PATA is put back, the computer tries to boot from it and doesn´t even try the SATA. I have to go into BIOS setup and re-choose the SATA.

    In disk manager, the PATA with partitions E and F, turns up as Disk0 and the SATA with partitions C and D, turns up as Disk1.

    It seems to me like the SATA controller is an "added feature" and that my friend has to live with this nuisance but I hope that someone will tell me otherwise!

    Thanks for Your time,
    Christer
     
    Last edited: 2004/02/29
    Christer,
    #1
  2. 2004/03/01
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Hi Christer, I don't have a SATA drive, but have read a bit.

    First and it may seem strange, but have you tried setting the sequence as floppy then HDD (take out the optical drive and only use when booting to a CD). I have had problems with CD boot in the sequence.

    Second, the change to booting from PATA is probably a "default ". (You MAY find a BIOS upgrade could change that, although it may not if the SATA drive is run through a controller card.)

    What may work is to use a Boot Manager. You would need to install it on all the drives that would be in IDE 1 master position...set the BIOS to boot from IDE... then when the boot options appear select the SATA drive from the boot options.
    There are some free boot managers available, this one is free for personal use:
    http://www.boot-us.com/
    There is one in Partition Magic.

    The drives may(?) need to have an operating system installed, but this may only have to be the command.com and boot.ini files.

    Hope there are some possibilities here.
    Matt
     
    mattman,
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  4. 2004/03/02
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Hi Matt,
    thanks for Your response!

    I will try disabling booting from the opticals to see if that helps.

    The SATA controller is on-board but I´ll check for a BIOS update.

    Well, that might work but I think that it shouldn´t be necessary with only one OS to choose from.

    In addition to that, the owner is computer illiterate, even more so than I am and I don´t want to complicate it more than I have to.
    I had to write down the single steps to get into BIOS and change the boot order because his attention level is low and memory span shorter than it takes to walk around a corner.

    Yesterday evening, he told me over the phone that he can put in and take out any PATA HDD in the rack and the computer still boots from the SATA. It is only when he puts in the Seagate Barracuda 160 GB PATA that the boot order gets messed up.

    ...... :confused: ......

    That indicates to me, if the PATA had been any other brand than Seagate, there would be no problem.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  5. 2004/03/02
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    Are you jumpered cable select on the Seagate ATA drive? Some MoBo's (DFI) will not run SATA if anything is on IDE #1 Primary - not saying this is your case but you may find some mutual exclusivity built into the main board default that is specific to Seagate. (Abit boards used to have trouble with IBM drives on CS and had to be Master or Slave - all other hdd's ran fine) Is the partition on the Seagate an active Primary? Have you thought of FDISKing the MBR on the Seagate if the answer above is yes?

    I know - lots of questions, no answers yet.

    ;)
     
    Rockster2U,
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  6. 2004/03/03
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    The PATA and the opticals are all jumpered as CS.

    I thought that might be a possibility and the reason for currently running the PATA as Primary Slave.

    Both are Seagates but I assume that You refer to the PATA and the answer is, I´m not sure but I´ll check into it during the next weekend. It was created from within XP and it is possible that it is a primary partition but I don´t think that XP will set it as active.

    No, I haven´t used FDISK at all.

    Since the HDDs are almost identical, in size at least, I had only the SATA connected during the installation of XP Pro, in order to not make a mistake. (The PATA was sitting powered off in the rack.) I created the system partition during the installation but nothing else.

    Next, I installed SP1 for the OS to see the full capacity of the HDDs.

    Next, I changed the drive letters for the opticals to X and Y respectively.

    Next, I connected the PATA as Primary Master.

    Finally, I created an extended with one logical partition of the remainder of the space on the SATA.
    I created two partitions on the PATA but I don´t remember if the first one became a primary and the balance an extended with one logical or if the whole PATA is an extended with two logicals.

    If it actually is one primary and one extended, then I will try removing the primary and create another extended with one logical.

    I think You´re on to the cause of the trouble ...... ;) ...... thanks!

    Christer

    Edited:

    It may be a few weeks before I can post the results. The operation must fit the schedule of the owner and I´m off for a week of holidays from which I return on March 21st.

    However, it is possible that it will happen this weekend.
     
    Last edited: 2004/03/03
    Christer,
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  7. 2004/03/05
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I´m at my friends home now and am typing this on the computer in question.

    In Disk Management:

    Disk0 (PATA) has one Extended with two Logicals E: and F:

    Disk1 (SATA) has one Primary C: and one Extended with one Logical D:

    So, there is no Primary on Disk0 (PATA).

    The fact that the desired boot drive is detected as Disk1 and not Disk0 may be the problem.

    In an earlier post I said:
    He is no longer sure about this and at the moment there is no other drive available to test.

    I´ll disable boot from opticals and get back.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  8. 2004/03/05
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    I´ve been enjoying myself in BIOS:

    Disabled all other boot devices but the HDD.

    In addition to that, I disabled boot from the second HDD which was set to the PATA.

    One option left => to boot from the SATA.

    When the PATA is taken out of the rack, in Disk Manager, the SATA is Disk0.

    When the PATA is put back ...... :mad: ...... the b*l*o*o*d*y* thing tries to boot from the PATA.

    After reentering BIOS and changing the order for the umpteenth time, it boots and in Disk Manager, the SATA has been relegated to Disk1 and the PATA has nicked the DISK0 position.

    This must be the problem and now I´m "off" to search for a BIOS upgrade.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  9. 2004/03/05
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    The ASUS download site was down so, this will probably be a project for another day.

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  10. 2004/03/05
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Drat!...the partitioning sounded like a good possibility to me as well.

    Just to clarify, what happens when it boots to the PATA?...it stalls?...message to run BIOS setup?...can't find OS?
    May give a lead as to what the BIOS is doing.

    Matt
     
    mattman,
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  11. 2004/03/05
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Nothing whatsoever.

    It just goes to a black screen between the ASUS screen and the Windows screen which never appears.

    I thought we were going somewhere with Your theory ...... :( ......

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  12. 2004/03/05
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Have you tried setting the front rack as master (or slave) on IDE 2, putting the opticals on IDE 1? That may stop the BIOS from looking for the PATA.


    Matt
     
    mattman,
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  13. 2004/03/06
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    Mattman's suggestion has some real merit - try it.

    Somewhat baffled but it sounds to me more like XP drive recognition situation whereby Disk manager is looking for drives on IDE 1 before SATA header. No IDE drives - no problem, but when IDE HDD is present - problem. Off the wall here, but could it be SATA controller or driver related causing an XP recognition problem? Perhaps an XP issue re: Disk Manager drive sequencing?

    I had a heck of a time when I added a SATA to a mix of 4 PATA on my DFI board (wanted to use the SATA for system drive because of its speed and seek time) Wound up starting from scratch with all HDD's except the SATA disconnected, killed the partition and reformatted the SATA, loaded the drive, then reformatted each of the four in a couple of other machines and then moved em' back - even FDisked the MBR's and the drives to kill the 8mb slack space. Experimented with running the PATA's as dynamic drives, simple volumes - then went back to running two of the four as logicals and two (removables) as primaries. This configuration seems to have resolved some other issues and I have no problems now changing out/swapping either of the removables. My Take - the SATA became "cause celeb" - PITA. In retrospect however, still glad I did it.

    ;)
     
    Last edited: 2004/03/06
    Rockster2U,
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  14. 2004/03/06
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Another good idea and the results are:

    It looked promising when both HDDs were connected because the SATA was now Disk0 and the PATA was Disk1. The desired boot device was Disk0 and not, as previously, Disk1.

    Shut down - disconnect PATA - restart - shut down - reconnect PATA ...... :mad: ...... aaand it tries to boot from the PATA.

    I tried all combinations of boot orders, even with the SATA as the only option with the PATA disabled.

    No luck ...... :( ...... !

    I got the mainboard manual out and took a read and I quote:

    By native OS, Win2K and WinXP are referred to.
    By legacy OS, Win9X and WinNT are referred to.

    My understanding of this is that what is happening on this computer is impossible ...... :eek: ...... :confused: ...... !

    Christer
     
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  15. 2004/03/06
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Hi Rockster2U!

    That thought has crossed my mind but I discarded it since the boot order gets changed in the BIOS settings.

    Please ...... ;) ...... don´t tell me that XP can change BIOS settings too!

    The question is if the BIOS changes the boot order when redetecting the reconnected PATA and XP boots from that information or if XP itself detects the HDDs.
    However, XP should detect installed operating systems or am I ...... :confused: ...... again?

    Christer
     
    Christer,
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  16. 2004/03/06
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Found this (many similar problems...suggests basic motherboard/BIOS faults):
    http://www.techsupportforum.com/computer/topic/11681-1.html
    Last post quotes partial success with a BIOS upgrade.
    Looks like a BIOS upgrade may(?) help, although the poster did not seem to have complete success. See if any of the settings quoted may relate to things you haven't checked yet.

    I tried the Asus website. Support is still down.

    Matt
     
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  17. 2004/03/06
    Rockster2U

    Rockster2U Geek Member

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    Am really confused now because of your comments that your BIOS settings are not holding but instead are being overwritten depending on what drives you have hooked up. I'd head to an Asus forum and would definately be looking for any kind of a BIOS update that may "fix" this. Wierd behavior to say the least ....

    ;)
     
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  18. 2004/03/07
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Got my vote on that!


    Maybe fantasy, but when XP loses the PATA (it is removed) it resets it's boot system. When the PATA is put back it "tells" the BIOS it can't boot and to look somewhere else. BIOS then defaults to PATA as boot drive. To test this...do not leave the SATA drive in the machine without a PATA attached. So when you remove the 160gb Seagate, replace it with one of the other drives.

    Here's hoping, but I would still get that BIOS update.
    Matt

    PS saw reference to Asus SATA drivers. Rockster also mentioned drivers. Any possibilities there and their relation to the way XP boots?
     
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  19. 2004/03/07
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Well, there is a function on the motherboard called automatic BIOS recovery (or words to that meaning) but it shouldn´t work like this!

    I´ll read up a bit more about it and will also check out Your link.

    Christer
     
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  20. 2004/03/07
    Christer

    Christer Geek Member Staff Thread Starter

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    Regarding the link, they seem to have slightly different problems. The BIOS update seems to be worthwhile, though.

    If I can get into the ASUS site before leaving today, then I´ll do it but if not, it will be some two weeks before I get back here.

    Christer
     
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  21. 2004/03/10
    Paul

    Paul Inactive

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    Christer et all,
    I had some recent issues installing a SATA drive along with a PATA second drive on my newly assembled system. BIOS would put the PATA drive on IDE0 and the SATA drive on IDE1. I believe it has something to do with how the SATA drive is remapped by the BIOS to an IDE port, although it runs as an SATA drive (confused? I am!) anyway if both drives were connected XP would only let me install on the PATA drive on IDE0. I wanted to install on IDE1 which was the SATA.
    Solution was to disconnect the PATA drive, then XP would install on the SATA drive as drive C. After installation I reconnected the PATA drive and formated it making sure that it wasn't set as active in the disk management, 'else windows would try to boot from the slower PATA drive, which it did in an earlier learning episode. It put the boot files on the PATA drive and left everything else intact on the SATA drive. The system was slow to boot and do anything. Hence the disconnection of the PATA drive and a reformat.
    Currently the PATA drive is IDE0 and the SATA drive is mapped as IDE1, but it works!
    There is not much clear and concise info on SATA and PATA setups available yet. This seems to be confusing a lot of people, in particular me!
     
    Last edited: 2004/03/10
    Paul,
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