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8MB RAM cards

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Harpo, 2005/08/31.

  1. 2005/08/31
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Hello,

    I've got a sandbox computer that is not quite ancient. It houses 8MB RAM cards. It currently has four but is expandable to eight. As luck would have it, I happen to have four more 8MB cards, but they don't quite match up with the existing cards. Since I can't post attachments to show you what they look like, how can I tell whether or not the "new" RAM cards are compatible with the existing cards?
     
  2. 2005/09/01
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Hi,
    Oooohhhh! Mix and matching RAM is an art, not a science.
    How do they "don't quite match up "?

    (From my experience), you cannot "break" anything from swapping RAM, it just "won't work ".

    I would first take out the exististing RAM and try the new.
    If you try them together and they don't work in tandem, you will have to decide which would be better.

    I don't know of any settings you can adjust to make them compatible, if that may be the problem.

    Even RAM that is "supposed to work" won't work on some computers :(

    Matt
     

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  4. 2005/09/01
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Memory...memory (my memory not RAM :) ). Sets of four are probably 32 pin SIMMS.

    If they "do not quite match up ", they are probably not compatible, don't try to force them into the slot, they may be different voltages.

    Compare the new and old together, if they have a "lug" that is in a different place they are not compatible (edge to edge with one reversed to the other).

    Matt
     
  5. 2005/09/02
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    I haven't quite had a chance to swap out the RAM yet - will post back on that.

    What I mean by they don't quite match up is that the cards look to be the same size, but the "lugs" are spaced differently. The "new" RAM has four lugs and then a space and then four more lugs (on both sides of the card). The existing RAM has eight lugs in a row with no spaces (on both sides of the card). So,
    I guess they are not compatible. :( Darn. It's a starter machine for my daughter, and I was hoping to boost the RAM a bit. I suppose RAMBooster might be an option...

    Circuitry on the "new" RAM cards is different on each side - is there a front & back? So if it doesn't work one way, it might work the other way?
     
  6. 2005/09/02
    oshwyn5

    oshwyn5 Inactive

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    By Lugs, most likely the OP meant the slots which the ears on the motherboard clip in.
    What you are referring to as lugs are the memory chips themselves.

    On these older ones (72 Pin SIMMS) you have to install in matched pairs. So there will be two identical ones in each pair of adjoining slots, (0,1 2,3 4,5 6,7) However each pair can be different in most cases.

    The big consideration is if they have even numbers of chips (Unregistered or unbuffered) or have an extra chip for buffering (an odd total)

    What you have in both cases is eight one MB memory chips to make one 8MB SIMM.
    The difference is layout , on one type it probably has the resistors and capacitors (tiny bumps) in the center of the stick on the other they surround individual memory chips. No big deal as long as you install in matched pairs.
     
  7. 2005/09/02
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    Found a diagram:
    http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=pinconmem_simm_72pin

    The lug I was referring to is the groove between pin 36 and 37. They are put in different locations to stop you from installing the wrong type, but if their location is similar it is possible to force them into the slot with enough pressure.

    It does sound like they will be compatible.

    I said 32 pin, I meant 30 pin. Sets of 4 remind me of 30 pin
    http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=pinconmem_simm_30pin
    but they were, maybe, only around 1MB each stick.

    Glad you got some extra help. RAM is not my best subject :D

    Matt
     
    Last edited: 2005/09/02
  8. 2005/09/03
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    @ oshwyn, I'll make sure I get them installed in pairs for the test run.
    @mattman, the pictures look exactly like the two kinds of RAM I'm working with.

    Before I do the test run, I've got to fix a problem I created. I've got another computer which is somewhat newer than the machine we're discussing - it came with one 32MB RAM (expandable to 128) and a 1.6GB HD. And I stripped an ancient machine of all its hardware (this is where the 8MB RAM came from), including a 2.1GB HD. I've been switching around hard drives between the two operational machines, and caused a problem that didn't exist before.

    Let me describe the problem here, and if I need to post into a new thread, I'll do that.

    The machine I'm trying to upgrade the RAM on came with two 730MB hard drives in it, one of which was disconnected. More on this below.

    Each of the hard drives had had the OS wiped before I got the machine, and I formatted each of them with Win95 to make sure they worked. No problem. On

    ONE of the hard drives, I tried to upgrade to Win98 SE 2nd ed, but ran into a lot of missing files - what's this all about?!?, so I reformatted in preparation to revert to Win95. All this was a couple of months ago. I think I left one of the HDs with a good copy of Win95 installed.

    OK, so I put the 2.1 and 1.6GB HDs in the "not so old" computer (which will be used for games and testing stuff), and the two 730MB HDs back into their original location (the computer I want to upgrade the RAM in). The problem is now it's got no OS, and it won't boot any disk I've got. If I hook up one HD, the message I get is "operating system not found" - an expected message, but non-responsive to any of my boot disks (floppy or CD). If I hook up the other HD, the message I get is "insert bootable disk in the appropriate drive" - a message I've never seen before, but no disks will boot.

    Since it's virtually impossible to hook up a HD incorrectly, what's going on here???

    And one more question, so everything is all out there - it's a mystery to me why this computer came with two HDs, when only one was hooked up when I got it, and I can't figure out how to hook up the second one because there aren't enough slots in the mobo. There's one IDE slot (J30) which has the CD-ROM plugged into it and one HD is daisy-chained off the CD-ROM. There's one floppy slot (J31) with the floppy plugged in. There's one small slot (J32) that appears to be where the power button is plugged in(???). Unused slots are a wide SCSI (50 pin) and a narrow SCSI. How can I use the available slots to connect both HDs and the CD-ROM all at the same time?
     
  9. 2005/09/03
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Oops. Old message. Sorry. The actual message I'm getting now is "invalid system disk. Replace the disk and hit any key. "

    If I put in a bootable floppy, I get "non-system or disk error. Replace and press any key when ready. "

    If I put in a bootable CD, I get the invalid system disk message.
     
  10. 2005/09/03
    Hugh Jarss

    Hugh Jarss Inactive

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    Hi Harpo

    pls check carefully that the floppy you used was indeed a bootable floppy, ideally by trying it in another machine after the one giving the "non-system or disk error. Replace and press any key when ready" message (belt & braces, trying it afterwards means you will know that it's not just getting knackered by the problematic computer's floppy drive).

    Reason: the message "non-system disk or disk error. Replace and press any key when ready" originates from the floppy disk itself**, it's placed there when the floppy is formatted. It then gets removed if the floppy gets SYS'd into a bootable floppy.

    ...which makes it look like the floppy's getting accessed and reading OK, but it's not a bootable one?? probably...

    If you're really sure that the floppy is bootable, I suppose we're thinking along the lines of a knackered floppy drive - but that's odd because it seems to be reading the disk OK :confused:

    best wishes, HJ


    **I once "got" the wife - who's a bit of a trekkie - quite baffled by abusing the "non-system disk" message...
    ...used a sector editor, and replaced the "non-system disk" message with "This computer has been disk-napped by Klingons" and left the floppy in the drive, left her to work out what to do (grins, evilly)
     
  11. 2005/09/03
    oshwyn5

    oshwyn5 Inactive

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    That old, and you may have a 720KB floppy drive not a 1.44MB dual side one.

    Second thing to do is to replace the cmos retention battery on the motherboard, and then boot to cmos setup and configure everything. The error messages you have are consistant with a dead cmos retention battery and being unable to properly read things.

    Older computers the cdrom did not connect to an IDE on the motherboard. Originally IDE controllers did not know what a CDROM was, when they were introduced, they were used for music and connected to the sound card. In this case you need to boot to a boot floppy, load the sound card drivers and then run mscdex.exe to assigna drive letter to the cdrom and load the cdrom drivers (aspicdrom.sys or oakcdrom.sys or similar).
     
  12. 2005/09/03
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    I'll put this on hold until I get the other problems resolved - being in quotes will help me find it later. :)

    This is interesting. Every disk I'm using HAS been successfully used in the past. HOWEVER, My original (factory) Win95 floppy boot disk did NOT work on the "games" computer earlier today! BUT, my original Win98 SE 2nd ed floppy boot (startup) disk DID work in the same computer AFTER the Win95 disk failed to boot! NEITHER will work in the "old" computer.

    BTW, what is a knackered floppy???

    I have no easy source for a replacement battery (unless I swap out the batteries on the two computers we're working with, and if so, will they be compatible? Maybe we could explore options other than battery replacement? Rebooting the computer does not give me the option to enter CMOS setup! Is this normal? I don't think it is!

    Can we take the error messages for each HD one at a time please, and start with the one that I'm getting with the current hookup - "invalid system disk. Replace the disk and then press any key." How do I resolve this message? Just recently - on the same computer (not sure if the same HD, tho) - it was simply a matter of inserting a bootable disk, and voila! I had my OS!

    I will take out the floppy and look at it if I need to, but it DOES read 1.44 floppys, so can I assume it's a 1.44 if it reads 1.44 disks?
     
  13. 2005/09/03
    mattman

    mattman Inactive Alumni

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    I have not come across many(any?) PCs with built-in SCSI controllers, so it may not be a PC. I looked around inside an Apple Macintosh, it had a built-in SCSI controller. I have a feeling that it is not a PC (a Windows based computer) and that is the reason why it cannot find the operating system. It may run an Apple based OS or one of the other business based operating systems.

    Maybe the best thing to do is to identify the motherboard and see if there is information on the internet about it and maybe find the motherboard manual which will guide you in setting it up. The motherboard model number should be printed on the motherboard (between the PCI slots, along the edge, in the corner or near the CPU). You can get information from the first few screens that appear when you startup (tap the Pause/Break key to stop and read the information, press Enter to continue).

    Matt
     
  14. 2005/09/03
    Hugh Jarss

    Hugh Jarss Inactive

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    Knackered Floppy:

    generally this happens because the heads are dirty in a floppy disk drive (the heads actually touch the surface on a floppy - on a HDD they "fly" a tiny distance above it). Unfortunately this means the magnetic coating on floppy diskettes tends to scratch off. Usually it scratches off track 0 first - which is a real pain because without track 0 the diskette is worthless

    best wishes, HJ
     
  15. 2005/09/03
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    This cannot be, as I have already had Win95 installed on each of these HDs.

    Whatever the problem is, it is something I have created, as I had this computer running fine before rearranging the hardware - the same hardware as is in there now.
     
  16. 2005/09/03
    Hugh Jarss

    Hugh Jarss Inactive

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    non-system messages left on floppy diskettes by OS:

    DOS 6.22:
    Non-system disk or disk error
    replace the disk and press any key when ready

    W95b (OSR2), W98SE, WFW3.11
    Invalid system disk
    Replace the disk, and then press any key

    (WFW was a surprise - I always thought Windows For Workgroups over DOS would format the same as DOS!)
    uh-oh. Is this to do with Compaq perchance?

    Harpo - what make is this machine, pls? - and also, what make computer(s) did the 730MB HDDs originate from?

    best wishes, HJ
     
  17. 2005/09/03
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    The box has no logo on it, but it does have a Pentium inside sticker.

    I WAS able to access CMOS by hitting F1 repeatedly as the computer booted, so I've got access to all that info now (currently up).

    The floppy IS a 1.44.

    Onboard SCSI A BIOS is set at "do not scan" Mean anything???

    What other info is helpful?
     
  18. 2005/09/03
    Hugh Jarss

    Hugh Jarss Inactive

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    if you can get into the BIOS try to find a setting for boot order & make sure that A is before everything else

    I've sometimes had trouble with Win95 boot floppies, but Win98 ones have always been OK

    apart from that I think we really need some identification of the motherboard somehow

    as Matt says, it should have something printed on it... which may be small and hiding quite well

    good luck

    best wishes, HJ
     
  19. 2005/09/03
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Yes, the floppy boots first.

    Give me a clue as to where I should be looking for this... All I see is Intel this and Cirrus that...

    I can find a product code, an FCC ID, a serial #, and a map of the mobo, but not anything that actually tells me who made the mobo...
     
  20. 2005/09/03
    Hugh Jarss

    Hugh Jarss Inactive

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    these would help, particularly the FCCID - good place to start. The first three char of the FCCID relate to manufacturer. Can usually look them up - sometimes it's tricky with old stuff.

    if the product code (or any other printing) has "rev" (as in revision) after it pls. include that info as well

    does the computer have a rating plate on the back panel? That can have a model number on it also

    best wishes, HJ
     
    Last edited: 2005/09/03
  21. 2005/09/03
    Harpo

    Harpo Well-Known Member Thread Starter

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    Product code: COLXX12M0BTO

    FCC ID: EJMXX12CDS
     

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