Hard drive not recognizing full capability

Train,

Two of the three you gave earlier worked fine, one didn't. Guess my putter just didn't like that one. The last one worked fine.

One thing I can say about Microsoft is they put the whole tut on one page.

I learned what I know about that stuff before I knew there were tutorials for it, and I somehow learned it pretty good anyway. I guess you'd call that being willing to hunt, & peck till you get it figured out.

 

> Hello again everyone. I'm sorry, I fell asleep last night, ... (snipped)

Hope you have a cushy keyboard.

> 1) Do I have to make a Windows 98SE startup disk
> to install that patch?

No. Run the exe from the hard drive under Windows. While some people seem to not need the updated FDISK, maybe because they use other partitioning tools (?), Microsoft seems to think it would not be a good idea to partition a drive with over 64 GB using the old version. I don't have time to challenge them on that. I've installed the patch on two systems, both running Norton Anti-Virus, btw, with seemingly no ill effects. I won't run Norton anything-else.

> I can't just double click on it and let it do it's own thing?

As with any other install/update/upgrade, it's probably a good idea to shut down all applications and anything running in background if possible.

> 2)the Maxtor 80GB came brand new out of the box.
> Does it have to be formatted?

Yes. What else depends. I've had drives come to me raw, with partitions, with disk managers. Haven't purchased a Maxtor in awhile. Don't know what they do. I tend to buy drives in white boxes and partition from OS installs. I even found drives that didn't want to listen to partition software but were able to be partitioned from the front part of an OS install. If there is disk manager software on the hard drive and I think I can do with out it (so far 100% of the time), I'll use a debug routine to write zeros to the first sector, effectively wiping out any funky boot records. Some drives come ready to format--already a partition that seems to encompass the whole drive. I think in the past I've gotten Maxtor drives that had a hidden boot manager partition of ? 8 MB on the drive. Others (all of what I buy) need to be partitioned before formatting.

Attempting to use an OS install partition software on a drive that previously required a disk manager can mung the geometry, giving symptoms similar to what you describe. Fixing this requires wiping the drive (sincerely wiping the drive) and either using a partition tool that doesn't require disk manager assistance or re-installing the disk manager.

If you purchased new in a white box, your vendor is your source of information. If you purchased new in a retail box, read the destructions that came with. If software came with, it may be diagnostic software, a disk manager or both.

> 3)I just looked in C:\windows\command directory and
> I see that the fdisk.exe date was last modified on
>April 23, 1999. Of course I haven't installed the patch yet.

OK.

> 4) I use Goback, if something messes up while installing
> this patch, will GoBack be able to revert it to a time
> before it happened, or..since GoBack is on my C drive..
> will it not work in this case?

No experience with this stuff. I use ghost on some machines as my "go back" method. But mostly, I don't need to go back. If I really hose a machine, I might just start over and re-install everything, just for the sheer fun of it.

> OK..what is the least complicated way to check my BIOS
> to see if it recognizes the full GB's? And should i do this
> before installing that patch?

The patch is OS specific. BIOS data that a partition tool reads is industry standards compliant.

Enter the setup program, different keys sometimes, but typically by cycling the DEL key during POST. Dell uses a variety of setup program interfaces depending on system family. By default the Dell splash logo served out of CMOS, is full screen and no POST diagnostics are displayed. When you enter the setup program, depending on your setup program interface, go to the "BOOT" section and enable the "boot-time diagnostic screen" --this will shrink the logo to the upper right quadrant of the screen and use the rest of the screen for text mode display of diags. This behavior may vary by model. For instance, this feature will be called "quiet boot" on some Dell models which should be, obviously, "disabled." If "quick boot" is enabled, you may not see diags reported. Logo behavior will vary as well.

What and how the BIOS reads and reports also varies from machine to machine. For some, all you will see is that "AUTO" recognition is turned on. Others will read the mfg. signature on the drive and report the model. Still others will report the geometry.

What the POST reports can also vary.

Unfortunately, the W98 OS does not present tools like NT or W2K that will report partitions on a physical drive in the system. Properties of a drive in Windows 98 show the partition for the logical drive letter as if it is an independent drive.

You will need an analysis utility like Belarc as suggested. I prefer Sandra or AIDA32.

> (snipped) ...Why does it recognize the full GB's
> under system but not under drive?

As above: the native system reporting tools are a bit anemic. I trashed Norton System works a long time ago when I discovered my system(s) ran better without it. I don't remember if it reports partition information. That's why you will be running fdisk. Fdisk will report the partitions established on the hard drive.

If your fingers go inside the case, make sure the power supply is unplugged and your fingers are at the same electrical potential as the chassis.

 

You must be getting USED DRIVES I got one of them once and it went right back to the store the same day. And I have seen with my own two eyes re-packaging of returned items.

Where do you get HDs. in a white box ? I have not seen any.

As far as the the fdisk patch goes Microsoft is up to its age old tricks of missing/incomplete-information.

It ain't no dam patch anyway. It is more of and UPDATE/UPGRADE

( See my post in this forum about the FDISK Update.)

They do not tell you that it only replaces/overwrites the Fdisk.exe in the Window/command folder.

They do not tell us that it does not get put onto a new Startup disk.

They do not tell you that it does not replace/overwrite the one in the C:\Window\Command\EBD folder.

They do not tell you that it must be manually copied to the Startup Disk.

Fdisk will report the partitions established on the hard drive.

That is true. But will only report them correctly if the BIOS ( CMOS ) has recognised the drive correctly.

(The patch is OS specific)

FDISK my Friend is a DOS program any has nothing to do with the actual OS. It just allows us to cut a large HD into smaller parts. What we do AFTER than can be OS related.

And now I do have a question.

What does Fdisk have to do with the BIOS reading the drive correctly. The BIOS ( CMOS ) should see the FULL drive capacity whether it has been fdisked, formated or not. It if does not see the drive corretly Fdisk ir anything else may not see it correctly.

And the BIOS needs to see the drive correctly with the drive coming RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. No fdisk, format OS or anything on it.

BillyBob

 

Bonus verbosity:

BTW, using fdisk to remove all partitions, does not remove the partition table or any boot managers. The data structure, as first written, remains intact. All FDISK does is remove all the entries (4) for partitions.

Which is why if I REALLY want to wipe the drive, I write zeros to the first sector. This forces creation of a new partition table (and a new MBR), something that FDISK seems to occasionally have some trouble with. I don't have any idea how often because, as I say, I seem to mostly create partitions from OS installs. I have faked an OS install to partition a recalcitrant hard drive or two.

Because I know how to write zeros to the first sector, relatively easily, I haven't really tried FDISK /MBR as a method of re-writing the boot sector (careful, you may not want to do this to your function system drive--hence the advice from someone else to remove the system/boot hard drive and work with just the 80 GB in your system). FDISK /MBR may work to destroy a funky disk manager boot record or not -- I don't know. Guess I'll have to try it sometime, but I'm not often offered the opportunity because I try to leave boot managers in another hemisphere.

All of this is, relatively, not any trouble at all. This thread is about a thousand times longer than any trouble with partitioning that I've seen. I've also never seen an IDE drive, that reported less space than was reasonable, that wasn't eventually fixed.

Unless you are going to mess with more than one OS on your system or some OS other than Windows, FDISK is an acceptable tool to use.

Most often, the problem is just unallocated space on the drive.

 

> You must be getting USED DRIVES...

It's possible. But I doubt it. I might be hard-pressed to know for sure. On the other hand, the folks that I deal with probably aren't interested in alienating me as a customer. The report of how drives have been delivered to me may span a number of years.

> Where do you get HDs. in a white box ? I have not seen any.

From an OEM who likes me. It helps to inflate his order. It saves me from lugging the box in.

> As far as the the fdisk patch goes Microsoft is up to its
> age old tricks of missing/incomplete-information.

I'm not a Microsoft apologist. I just use their stuff.

> It ain't no dam patch anyway.

****; Ok.

> ... They do not tell ...

That's about the industry average.

> FDISK my Friend is a DOS program any has
> nothing to do with the actual OS.

DOS is an OS; well, some people think it's an OS.

Int 13

> What does Fdisk have to do with the BIOS
> reading the drive correctly.

Uh, nothing, I guess. Never said it had any effect on the BIOS. I am not a computer engineer. Anything I say is probably lore. I extrapolate to fill fact gaps. Question away. I have answers, right or wrong. Sometimes wrong. Sometimes right.

Hard Drive Auto-detection is not a process that relies on OS. I don't disagree with anything you state. Sometimes, the hardware, BIOS, CMOS, POST, and setup routine are less-than-cooperative about revealing/reporting what they "see." It would be interesting to know that the BIOS does see the drive for what it supposedly is. If it doesn't, then the BIOS problem would need to be addressed before anything else, assuming that there is not a drive problem. I think.

I may have missed the information (yep--Phoenix Technologies 02/08/00), but I didn't see a report of what the BIOS is (mfg.), what the series is, what the rev is... ...it would be worth a trip to see information that stated the BIOS will see an 80 GB drive. Alternately, for DELL, I think if you enter your system service code at their support website, you will find that information. It may even be possible to click on "Upgrade" there and discover the largest hard disk that Dell will support in the system. Dell's support of an 80 GB drive in that system would be a dead give-away.

 

[DOS is an OS; well, some people think it's an OS.

OOPS !! You got me on that one

You are right. But now days when OS is mentioned we usually think of Windows or some other OS.

BillyBob

 

Hi again all Instead of inundating you with questions, I have one simple one, as I see a few tutorial links were posted. What do you all think of this tutorial? I read through it, and it seems easy to follow...not to mention that I had no idea a startup disk was so easy to make! Just a floppy and control panel/add/remove programs/startup disk. Wow! Here is the link..any opinions?

http://www.cybertechhelp.com/html/tutorials/tutorial.php/id/73

 

Lis171

If you have made a new Startup Disk just check it to make sure it contains the new Fdisk. ( which I believe you have installed )

If not, just copy the one in the C:\Windows\Command ( if it is the new one ) over to the floppy.

I think you should check out the above to make sure that you have the same version in both places.

The link you pointed to looks pretty good.

The one thing that you will need to becareful of. And that is to make sure you are working with the proper HD.

The #5 choice.

BTW. That is a lessson that Yours Truely learned the hard way.

BillyBob

 

Do you mean #5 as in,

"change current fixed disk" -- Type a 5 and press Enter.
Note: Option 5 is listed only if a second hard drive is present.

??

Also, Deloris said that there was no need for the fdisk patch, as I had reverted my HD back to a time before I installed it, with GoBack. The fdisk modified date is now back to April 23, 1999. Do I really need that patch afterall?

 

I didn't need that patch Lis, as I have stated before, & I have the same OS, but if you feel more comfortable using it, then by all means do.

Amen to that! And everything you said about what they don't tell you is absolutely true. I've read that article a half dozen times, & they left out all of that stuff. They don't even clearly explain under what circumstances it should be used.

Absotutely!

Exactly what I've been saying almost from the beginning! Geesh!

One point BB brought out is NEW hard drive re-packaging. That happens a lot. Someone buys one, takes it home, installs it, partitions it, etc., etc., & then brings it back without undoing the mess. The store re-shrinkwraps the package & re-sells it. That is one scenario I hadn't thought of, but is a very likely possibility in this case.

I went to the Manufacturer of the Motherboard's site & could find nothing about the BIOS version. Maybe a trip to Dell's site would be more productive.

I guess I did everything wrong when I installed my 80GB, according to some. I didn't upgrade the fdisk in Windows. I didn't make a new floppy with the upgraded fdisk on it, & I did my initial partitioning for an OS primary, & an extended Primary, & formatted the part I intended to use for the OS while still in fdisk. Installed an OS, Video & Sound drivers on it, & everything while still hooked up as the master, but everything went off just fine. I do admit to using Partition Magic to partition the Extended Primary into several logicals after making it a slave again, but the initial basic partitioning was done while in fdisk. Geesh! I wish I'd known I was doing it wrong! Maybe things would have gone worse if I'd done it right.

It was not originally about creating partitions, but it somehow turned into that. It was about finding the cause of a problem, & being able to utilize the entire drive. I do not recall Lis wanting to partition the drive into several sections. All she ever said was that she wanted to be able to use it all. That is usually a simple task to accomplish for most of us because we can quickly figure out the possibilites, & act on them, one by one, until we find the problem, & fix it, but to someone who has never dealt with these types of problems it can be a daunting experience, & it is a frightening thought to jump off into unknown territory, having little, or no understanding of the particulars. I know first hand what it's like to have to hunt, & peck for answers, because I didn't even know there was help available out there until a couple of years or so ago. She has never done this before, or even attempted it, & does not understand technical lingo. We are truly trying to help her understand the different aspects of what may be causing the problem, & how to possibly fix it. Relating our ideas based on our experiences in as simple English as possible. As is the case in many posts, some of us disagree on certain issues, but this disagreement is based on our experiences, or on what we believe to be irrefutable facts. This is normal.

In the end, she will have to decide her course of action based on what she has learned from all of this. One thing I am sure she has learned is that not everyone agrees on everything, but they do agree on some things, which is normal human nature.

 

That looks like a good tutorial, but before you start trying to follow it, you will have to go in & see if there are any existing partitions on the drive. If there are, they will have to be deleted first. The computer re-booted, so the changes will take effect. Then also, if you are not planning on partitioning it for use with an OS, & etc., there are some of the aspects of the tutorial that will not apply. Such as creating an extended Primary. I think all you will have to do is create one big DOS partition using the whole drive for it, and format that.

Am I correct, guys? Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means. I do not want to lead anyone astray.

 

Do you mean #5 as in,

"change current fixed disk" -- Type a 5 and press Enter.
Note: Option 5 is listed only if a second hard drive is present.

Yes & Yes.

Forget anything I write about transfer FDISK to the Startup disk. No need to now as you have the original in the system.

But IF you do install the new Fdisk make sure it does get onto the Startup Disk.

Also when you do get the Startup disk fixed up WRITE PROTECT IT

To do this. Look at the back of the disk and in the upper left corner slide the tab up to uncover the hole. This will STOP anything from writing to it when it ain't supposed to. Plus no Virus can get to it either.

BillyBob

 

OUCH !!

Lost the first one so gotta try again.

I would not say you are wrong cause you are not.

But the user needs to consider how the 1st HD is set up. And how the 2nd HD will be used.

If the 1st HD has more than one partition on it you deffinetly do not want a Primary partition on the second as it will mess up the lettering of the 1st HD partitions ( after C: anyway ).

And if it is only going to be used as a 2nd HD it does not need a Primary partition anyway. Just full extended and then make smaller ones if desired.

As to using the full 80gig as one I myself would not. I would go with no less than 4 20gig. Better Data separation and protection.

BillyBob

 

Deloris, How do I do that? *check for already existing partitions, that is* And you are right, I never have ventured into the inner workings of a computer before, so it's a little scary for me, BUT -- reading through all of these extremely knowledgable posts by Billybob, Train, Bitbyter and yourself, has provided me with a wealth of information I otherwise never would have known nor *of course* thought of. I simply thought I could install a simple patch and voila! LOL

I forgot to add, in reference to BitByter's post..I don't need to make a startup disk to do this? It is safe to just double click on the fdisk.exe in C:\Windows\Command, and do it from right on my desktop? Then just reboot?

 

I got into my BIOS setup..but where do I find the part about auto detect all HD's being enabled or not? The main screen had a bunch of stuff about my memory, and the boot screen had just what Bitbyter posted. Of course there was advanced and a few other selections, but I exited to post here first. I have no idea which to select from the upper menu..and when whatever screen I am supposed to select is selected, where do I find the auto detect option to see if it's enabled or not?

 

Open a DOS window. Enter the command:

FDISK /STATUS

Information about your setup program is here. Unfortunately, to get to that page, Dell will require you to enter your service tag number, else they will dump you to the generic support page. Browse to the documentation and system setup docs. For an XPS-T this should be on a white tag on the back of the tower. For that era, it would typically be a 5 digit code. No, I don't work with a lot of Dell machines, but some--from that time period, mostly Optiplex boxes, and on the whole, bare bones no-name boxes. Dell, in a lot of cases, makes systems that have some proprietary components. So your best source for resources for Dell machines is, typically, Dell.

Dell BIOS rev numbers for the XPS-T would be something like A04. If the POST information is showing on screen at startup, you should see this. The date of your BIOS chip is after the date that most BIOS makers started accomodating up to 137 GB disks rather than the previous limitation of 33 GB (roughly August 99).

However, I think your chipset is limited to UDMA mode 2 or ATA-33. My superstition is to not mix ATA types on the same cable if possible.

The system shipped with a 40 pin-40 conductor cable. Probably cable select.

 

Yes, BB, it does depend on what the user wants to do, and partitioning it off into four 20GB parts is also good, but it's also a process difficult to understand how to do, when you've never done it.

Lis,

If you decide to try making four 20's out of it, more power to you. Just remember, if at first you don't succeed, don't give up. You can always go back, & do everything all over again.

OK, I'm trying to remember correctly here. When you get into fdisk, there will be a selection that says something about partition, or drive information. #4 I think. Hunt around till you find it. I can't remember the exact words. There will be a set of blinking brackets. Just type that number into the brackets & press enter. That will show you if there are already any partitions on the drive. Write down the names of the existing partitions. All of them. Then you'll have to Esc from that screen, & go to the selection that says delete partitions. Then one by one you will have to tell it to delete them. I always go back into #4 & make sure it deleted them all, but I'm paranoid anyway. After that, power down the computer completely with the power button, for the changes to take effect. Wait a few seconds, then power up again. Go back into fdisk to do the creation of whatever you wish to do as far as either making it one big drive, or split it into four parts. Just remember DO NOT CREATE A SEPARATE DOS PRIMARY PARTITION. As BB said, Just a full "Extended Primary," and then create smaller logical ones on the full extended one if desired. I don't think you're supposed to make any partitions active either in this case.

Oh yes, another thing. If you do decide to make it into several sections, before doing any of this, go into your device manager first, & re-assign your zip & CD ROM drive letters to say, Y & Z, or something way up the letter scale. This will prevent drive letters from getting re-arranged on them after you do all of this, and you not knowing which is which at first. You'll have to make new desktop shortcuts to them of course. Mine are allocated as Y & Z anyway all of the time, because I am frequently messing with my partitions, & monkeying around with them. If you only make it one big drive, then re-assigning the zip & CD ROM is not necessary.

I am the paranoid type, so that is why I disconnected my main drive, & re-jumpered the slave as Master before I did anything. Scared something would go wrong & I'd lose my main drive. Like I said in a previous post, if there's trouble to be had, it will find me.

 

Thank you BitByter, but after looking through my own setup screen, and the explanatory setup screen link from Dell, that you posted, I still don't know where I can find the auto detect HD or all HD's option *to make sure it's enabled so I can make full use of all 80GB's* Very confused! LOL

 

Don't have an XPS-T machine to look at. If you can't find the info by hunting around the interface...

What are the results of opening a DOS window with windows running and entering:

FDISK /STATUS

The display should show both drives, the size of the drives and the size of the partitions on the drives.

 

I did this early on in this thread. But this is what it says when I open DOS and type in fdisk /status

Fixed Disk Drive Status
Disk Drv Mbytes Free Usage
1. 19469 100%
C: 19469
2. 76340 76340 %


(1 MByte = 1048576 bytes)
C:\WINDOWS\DESKTOP>

I'm assuming this means BIOS doesn't auto detect my slave drive (D)? Not to mention, the number changed from the last time I did this. Instead of 76340, it was 10804. Does that mean anything? Oops..I installed that patch for fdisk again..that's probably why. Now..can i actually just open fdisk.exe and follow the tutorial, instead of making a startup disk? And..again..how do i find out if there are partitions on my drive that I need to get rid of? *even though it was a brand new drive* <---I'm dying to start this! lol