Win XP Home/Direct cable connect win98SE

I have two machines, a desktop with win98SE which has been successfully direct cable connected to another Win98SE desktop. I now have a new notebook that I want to hook up the same way for file transfer etc... I'm using a standard ethernet cat-5 crossover cable nic to nic. I can't get either machine to see the other at all although each machine sees itself in Network Neighborhood and My Network Places respectivily. I noticed, when trying to set up the XP notebook, that the direct Cable Connection list specific types of connections but does not include ethernet crossover cable whereas Win98 SE appears to assume that that is the connection type. what next? I have shared files on both machines, they both belong to the same workgroup and have unique computer names. It was so simple when it was just two Win98 machines. Please heeelllllppppp...

 

Any time you are connecting like devices (2 pcs, 2 hubs/switches, etc) you gotta use a crossover cable if you want communications.

Assuming you are using NetBeui or that the IP addresses/subnet masks are OK then:

1. Logon to the 98 PC with a username AND password.
1.a. Logon to the XP PC with a username AND password.

2. Add the 98 username/password (exact - case sensitive here) to the local users and groups~users section of the XP box.

That should clear up your issues with the 98 PC not being able to see the XP PC. And hopefully allow XP to see 98.

If that doesn't help, specify XP-pro or XP-home, the protocol(s) you are using, and if TCP/IP, the exact settings you are using. Hopefully IP since there are some diagnostic tools with it that NetBeui lacks.

 

Thanks Newt,
I am using a crossover cable and It's XP Home... sorry for not including that. I try your suggestions and post reply on results. Any comment that XP's "Direct Cable Connection" setup explicitly doesn't mention crossover cable but does list parallel cable, serial cable and USB cable? Thanks again

 

The reason JR is that a "Direct cable connection" and an Ethernet connection are 2 different animals.

As defined a "Direct cable connection" does not include
"Ethernet" as it has its own dedicated (N)etwork (I)nterface (C)ard.

A Direct Cable connection normally refers to the use of serial, parallel and USB. Now days you can add Firewire and a couple of others to that.

In your message you asked about a "Direct cable connection" but then mention NIC's. ??? Are you using both Ethernet and Direct!

This is why Direct cable connection does not mention a crossover cable.

This can be confusing. And Newt is correct even in non Ethernet like "Direct cable connection ", the cables are crossed. The tranmit on one end goes to receive on the other ie (crossover).

So what are you doing "Direct Cable Connection" or Ethernet or both?

If so which is giving you a problem?

Mike

 

Hi Mike,
Interesting point. I enabled direct cable connection to allow the two Win98 machines to work in a peer to peer mode utilizing their nic's and a crossover cable with no server, switch, router or hub. This is how Microsoft's own publication "The Wired Home" directed me to set it up and with two Win98 machines it worked great. My problem is bringing XP Home into the picture. Once I get a handle on XP's needs I think the problem will be resolved. I will will investigate your train of thought more throughly tho.

 

Well good!

BTW:

For Newt, remember the MCSE we discussed the other day!

Mike

 

Newt, I'm following this thread because I have a similar issue going with a WIN98 acting as a gateway for my XP Pro laptop. The WIN98 machine does not require a logon, and the XP does, but no password. Security is not an issue as you can see.

I believe the one thing I need to try is establishing true logons that require pwd on both machines. I plan to create user accounts on each machine for the user of the opposite machine.

Two questions about this:

Q. The WIN98 machine should be acting as the Browse Master with that service disabled on the XP laptop? Seems to me that only one machine should have this enabled or all sorts of problems might happen.

Q. The WIN98 logon should be Client for MS Networks or can it remain as Windows? I switched it to Windows to avoid a logon.

Thanks ...... Paul

 

pleblanc13

Yes you are correct! XP requires a non-blank password to share!

So do this!

XP machine! Control panel-System-Network identification. Get the name of the computer and the workgroup. Write them down. Set a password on this current user id none!

98 machine! Rt click network neighborhood left click Identification. Change the workgroup to match the XP!

Then in the configuration tab dbl click the Client for Microsoft networks and remove anything in DOMAIN. Then put the dot in Quick Logon.

Then below this make the primary network logon be Client for Microsoft networks. OK to save these changes, it will want to reboot, let it!

After reboot go to Start and click Logoff, are you sure YES. Now change the username and password to exactly match the XP and confirm the password. Now that you are logged on dbl click network neighborhood and see if you can browse.

If you cannot see the XP then RT click network neighborhood and find computers and supply the name of the XP!

If you still do not have a connection or only from 1 machine, then there are services to be activated on the XP, so get back to us and we can complete.

Your question on the Browse Master! Do not bother. The OS's will negotiate this between themselves. We can disable one but later!

Mike

 

Mike, thanks for the help. I've gotten it the few steps closer, but still no resolution. Here's what I did and what the result is:

(For clarification, this is a nic to nic with crossover cable, using a proxy server for internet access. The internet access works, and I even used to browse before. Hmph, something changed out of the blue.)

1. XP laptop is now logging in with User/PWD.
2. 98 is now logging in with same User/PWD.
3. Both point to same WorkGroup.
4. 98 is booting with Client for MS Networks instead of Windows.
5. NetBui is installed on both machines.
6. No references to any domains on the 98 Gateway.
7. Both machines have File and Printer sharing installed and enabled.

Results:
1. Still cannot browse or even see icons for the machines.

2. 98 Gateway is horribly slow every time I click on Network Neighborhood or any of its nested objects. It takes several minutes to resolve and return anything.

3. Can ping from 98 gateway to laptop but not in reverse. It times out with "no reply ", not "unknown host ".

4. The nics are configured as 192.168.200.1 and .2 with 255.255.255.0 subnet mask.

5. Each machine has a unique name, and at times I'll find the machine icons in NetNeigh but when clicking them I get messages about the network resource not being available, as if permissions was the problem.

6. Currently, Find Computer just returns zilch.

This is really a tough one. Hope you have more ideas. Thanks so far. Paul

 

You say the file & printer sharing is enabled. Good - needs to be. But is anything shared like files/folders/etc.? If not, you won't see anything.

You don't specify what proxy server but if you are using ICS, it pretty much will hate the IP address you are using. Much prefers something like 192.168.0.1/2 or 192.168.1.1/2 (I can't remember which since never use the stuff).

And it would be interesting to hear exactly what happens when you specify the thing you are looking for rather than using a search. For instance, assmume that PC-A has a folder shared with a share name of folder-a. From PC-B, start~run~\\PC-A\folder-a and let us know what your result is.

And if the result is anything other than success, please post IP config details - all of them. Start~run~cmd then Ipconfig /all on XP and start~run~winipcfg on 9x and then click for details.

 

pleblanc13

Crossover and proxy!!!! Good to know these things!

I think the proxy server in basically correct if it is sharing the internet connection. Microsoft ICS is a proxy and does default to some specific configs that can be changed but usually should not be changed without good reason.

Other non MS proxy servers are more friendly and configurable so what proxy are you using?

Do what Newt requested but post it so we can see it! Do it this way.

On XP
command prompt

type
ipconfig /all >c:\xp.out

A text file named xp.out will then be in the root of c: , open it in wordpad and copy and paste back to us.

Same for 98 except name it 98.out.

Also to repeat Newts request, what have you shared on these stations. Do this go to each station an rt click on My Documents, then lft click sharing, and share these folders. We can unshare later but for testing share these.

Mike

 

Hi Newt and Mike,
IPConfig stuff is posted below.

Other stuff first:

Ping: I'm concerned that I cannot ping from XP Laptop to the 98 Gateway, but I can ping in reverse.

Proxy: I'm using Proxy+, after failing with ICS and another shareware that crashed a lot. Proxy+ is rock solid and my Internet connection has been very reliable.

Sharing: I've had shared folders on both machines all along, and in the past was able to copy, delete, from machine to machine.

Start, Run: From PC-A to \\PC-B\Backup (shared): Nothing but hourglass. No return, no message, no nuttin' honey.

Oddity: I can physically see the gateway computer (Venus) icon in network neighborhood. Click on it returns, "\\Venus is not accessible. The network path is not found." It knows the machine exists, and then says the path is not found??



OK, now the XP IPConfig Stuff:



Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Jupiter
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . : Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-12-E9-35
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.200.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.200.1


*****************
98 Gateway IPConfig:

Windows 98 IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . : VENUS
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No


0 Ethernet adapter :

Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
Physical Address. . . . . . : nn-nn-nn-nn-00-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :


1 Ethernet adapter :

Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
Physical Address. . . . . . : nn-nn-nn-nn-00-00
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :


2 Ethernet adapter :

Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
Physical Address. . . . . . : nn-nn-nn-nn-00-01
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

3 Ethernet adapter : (To the laptop)

Description . . . . . . . . :
Accton EN1207D/EN2242A Series NDIS 5.0 driver
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-10-B5-A6-51-12
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.200.1
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

4 Ethernet adapter : (to the DSL Modem)

Description . . . . . . . . : NETGEAR FA31X PCI Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-09-5B-07-EB-7E
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.252
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . : 05 24 03 8:52:10 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . : 05 25 03 8:52:10 AM



Signing off, and thanks again for looking this over. ~Paul

 

Newt and Mike,
Firewall block!

No joke, I finally started looking into Zone Alarm and was ((shocked)) to see my laptop being blocked. Why, I do not know since it worked at one time and I never changed any settings in ZA.

Security, Advanced had my laptop IP listed, so it should have had a free pass. But it didn't. I only found this out after bringing the Local Security level down from high to medium. Then bingo ....
instant access.

Well, a big thank you for getting me to that point. I like the way youz guyz work around here. Very helpful and it is very appreciated. There's nothing worse than working a stumpy problem alone in the wilderness without a compass.

Thanks again. ~Paul

 

Yup. When you posted "Ping: I'm concerned that I cannot ping from XP Laptop to the 98 Gateway, but I can ping in reverse. " that pretty well screamed FIREWALL ISSUE.

Glad you got it sorted. But it looks like you have another possible issue that is strange to say the least. Just isn't making sense to me and I'm curious. All the below from your ipconfig dumps.

You showed XP with
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.200.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.200.1

and 98
with NIC 3 using
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.200.1
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . :

while NIC 4 has
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.252
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

Questions first I suppose.

1. What is acting as your DHCP server at 192.168.1.1?
2. And whatever is at 192.168.1.1 is a gateway to where?

It looks as if the 192.168.1.1 machine must be acting as a proxy server/modem sharing device with ICS or wingate or similar. And if so, you must be using direct connects to several PCs. In that case you can simplify and speed up your networking by getting a $50 router/switch and hooking all the PCs directly to it.

3. 192.168.1.x is using a subnet mask of 255.255.255.252 which will only allow a couple of devices on that network and no way to broadcast if needed. It can work but seems an odd way to configure things. Again, I'm curious.

And as a general note, the two PPP adapters showing all zero values shouldn't be working. They will be part of a dial-up system so curious if you are connecting OK and if so, from which machine as the Host PC?

 

Hi Newt! Good catch on that dumb Subnet Mask ending in .252. That is a bizarre typo during setup, I guess.

Other questions on NIC 4 from the 98 gateway machine (preface again with reminder that this is a NIC to NIC with CrossOver and Proxy+ instead of ICS):

Re: The 98 NIC 4 you asked:

1. What is acting as your DHCP server at 192.168.1.1?
2. And whatever is at 192.168.1.1 is a gateway to where?


That is the DSL modem address. Is it supposed to be used in both places I hope? We've never had any problems with our DSL connection, this I do know. The 98 machine acts as the gateway machine with the proxy server, and the XP laptop is the only other machine.


Then you asked about the zeros for the PPP adapators, and I guess since we don't use a dial up we don't have anything configured there.


Speaking of routers for 50 bucks, it sounds good if I ever need to add another machine, but I am leary of plugging in any old router to this particular ISP (MSN) because of the beaucoup problems we've had with MSN. Is there any chance of incompatibilities between routers and ISPs (something tells me that the ISP has to support certain protocols like ATM or some routers don't like it)?

Any general advice, or even URLs to good information would be appreciated. Thanks, Paul

 

Paul - interesting stuff. I wasn't familiar with Proxy+ so took a look at the available documentation. Other than wishing the person who did the translation to English had gotten a native English speaker to tweak it a little, impressive stuff. A real industrial strength proxy server.

And the mystery of the PPP adapters is solved. Proxy+ put them in and then saw they weren't needed for either dial-up or for keep-alive so assigned values that nulled them out. They are harmless as configured and the proxy server might get upset if they were gone so I wouldn't suggest removing them.

The thing certainly looks like overkill for a small home network. Price is right though - free for up to 3 users according to a download blurb. That explains the netmask of 255.255.255.252 since that one allows a maximum of 3 PCs on a network.

As to your question about routers and your ISP - my guess is the main SOHO router/switches from Linksys, Netgear, DLink, and the like would do fine. But note, that is my guess.

 

Newt,
I was bitterly disappointed with some other proxy servers I had tested, and Proxy+ (aside from the launguage oddities) has been rock solid. I think it's a keeper.

I see why the subnet mask of .252! Forgot about that. That's a cute way to enforce matters.

No, I won't mess with the PPP adaptors.

Thanks again for your support, Newt (and Mike)! I'm sure "I'll be bahck ". ~Paul

 

I too am stumped !

Hello all,

I found this forum just now and read this thread with great interest, the experiences of Pleblanc sounded very familiar. I have almost the same setup and cannot get it working, though i think in my case its not due to a firewall config or a mistyped subnet. Hope you can help me !

Here is the situation.
My old, main PC is an Athlon 750 that runs Windows 98, and has Internet access via cable modem - UTP to my NIC.
My brand new PC is a Dell (Intel 2.4 Ghz) that runs Windows XP Home edition.

My short term goal is to network these two to the extent that they can share files and printers. I can then properly customise the new XP box, make it my main machine with cable internet, and use XP's Internet Connection Sharing feature (medium term goal) to let the old 98 box keep its internet access.

To this end I added a 2nd NIC to the 98 box, and connected it via a small hub & UTP cables to the XP machine.
The IP on the 2nd NIC has been set to 192.168.0.2 and I made the IP address on my XP machine, 192.168.0.1 , both with subnet 255.255.255.0

Other things I made sure of:
* Both machines are in the same workgroup and can ping eachother.
* Both have file&printer sharing enabled, both have shared folders.
* on both machines the (software) firewall is temporarily disabled. (Norton Internet Security on 98, and the native firewall of XP).

However the machines still FAIL to find eachother in Network Neighborhood or via Find-Computer. Mapping a drive to a share also results in "not found"
I did manage once to click on the Network Places in XP, click on the workgroup and see both computer names displayed, but got a weird "no access allowed" message when clicking on the name of the 98 box. Furthermore I have never since been able to reproduce this event.

I do log on to 98 with a username/password, normally automatically during bootup via the TweakUI utility, but lately manually ( since I added the 2nd NIC it appears TweakUI won't work. (small issue).

XP is for me a new OS. I do not need to log on to it at the moment, so I assume that means I have local admin rights when I boot it up?

What am I missing ?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

 

You will need to be logging on the XP system as well with both a username & password. If there are no security issues, you can use the identical one you are using for 98.

If you like the autologon thing you can still do it on XP but will need to tweak a couple of things to make sure it is putting in the values you need. Specifics Here.

 

Newt,

I changed my account on XP so that it now requires a password when I log on, but that did not make my machines find each other for file sharing (Network Neighborhood).

The last thing I tried was installing Netbui on the 98 machine (bound to the correct NIC) and doing the same on XP. The computers now have no trouble finding Themselves anymore in Network Neighborhood, but still fail to see their counterpart in the workgroup.
Regarding Netbui on 98, if you look at the TCP/IP properties of the LAN's NIC, hit the Netbios tab, the checkbox that says "let me run Netbui over TCP/IP" is checked but grayed out...(presumably because I installed the Netbui protocol itself ?)

I even added the IP addresses and computernames to the Hosts and LMhosts file on the 98 box, and it still cannot "resolve" or find the Dell box.

Help