defrag hangs at 10%

I know I must have something running in the background that is stopping defrag from completing. I ran scandisk from a dos prompt and defrag from dos. Still hung up at 10%. Can some of you gurus tell me how to get to safe mode to run defrag from it.

Also there I recall there is a minimum list of programs out there somewhere to run windows but i can't remember where they are. I recall that I one time closed all but a few files listed and this enabled defrag to run sucessfully for a long time until my latest problems.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

donray--
As far as running Defrag, you usually do not need to shut "everything" down or even run from Safe Mode, but rather only to shut off the programs that can write to your hard drive during the defrag. That means screen saver, task scheduler, cable/DSL connection, perhaps antivirus, and if you run any other program that does that.
Check Start|Programs|Accessories|System Tools|System Information|click on Software Environment|Running Tasks to see what is really running.
What programs do you need to run your PC? From Control+Alt+Delete probably only Explorer. But read here
http://www.3feetunder.com/krick/startup/list.html
http://www.greatis.com/regrun3appdatabase.htm
http://www.answersthatwork.com/Tasklist_pages/tasklist.htm

 

Tip I picked up here. Replaced Win98 defrag with ME defrag. First time ran about the same up to 10%, then it went into turbo mode...
Look here.

The download is at the bottom of the page.

 

At the 10% mark, defrag is using the info in \Applog to optimize your program starts.

If it has been awhile since you have defragged, from Explorer, browse to \Windows\Applog (a hidden folder) and delete all of the files here.

As you start to run programs again, Taskmon will start to rebuild the Applog files.

 

Thanks to all, especially welshjim your solutions and the shareware program id the trick.

 

Just to add a bit to the reply by WhitPhil

Once you get things back in line so the defrag works properly.

Stop TaskMonitor from loading at startup and delete everything in the C:\Window\Applog folder.

You have a much smoother running machine.

I have found that to do nothing usefull at all.

As WhitPhil stated it can mess up defrag.

BillyBob

 

BillyBob--If you do not have TaskMonitor running at boot (or at least running while you use your PC), you lose most of the purpose in running Defrag. TaskMon is what creates the Applog which tells Defrag which programs you run most often and therefore which programs should be "defragged ". (Defrag does not defrag all programs--only the 40 or so that run most often.)

 

donray--Thanks for posting back and for your kind words. It is good to learn that a suggestion worked!!

 

It also makes a lot of difference on how the HDs are setup

Since I stopped loading TaskMonitor It has taken no longer than 60 Seconds to defrag my C: drive. And that is only after adding or changing software.

And It may also depend on how many programs are actually installed on shall we say C: drive. Myself I have NOTHING other than the Windows files, AV software etc on the C: drive.

My C: drive is only 3.3gig with only 1.03gig being used So I could ( if I wished to ) reduce it to 2gig with no problem. There is hardly anything other then the OS on the C: drive. The swap file is set to a fixed minimum size ( 450 meg ) on the D: drive.

So this makes a lot of difference also.

I never have ( and never will ) like the Idea of having anthing other then the OS, and things required by it on the C: drive.

(Defrag does not defrag all programs--only the 40 or so that run most often.)

HUH ??? I do not understand you there at all. I have always seen defrag move everything around so the the free space was all together and after all software.

And I do not have anything more ( or very little more ) than what is required by the OS installed on the C: drive.

So the bottom line may depend a lot on how things are setup.

BillyBob

 

Billybob:

I agree. Although on older, slower drives, it "could" give a little boost. Although, that boost is only when you start the program. So, in order to get this little "kick in performance ", you have to suffer with a (potentially much) longer defrag.

Jim:
Another huh!
I don't know where you got that from, but it isn't correct.
Defrag defrags everything, programs, data, etc.
With Taskmon running, files are being created and updated in \Applog that contain info on how often programs run, what files they use, and the sequence of the clusters that are used to load up the program.
Defrag then uses this to move those programs to the front of the drive, and while doing so, it will "shuffle" around the clusters of a file, in order to make it load faster.

IE: If a program is comprised of 6 clusters and while loading, it loads from clusters 1, 2, then 6 then 5 then 3 and 4, defrag will take that file and arrange it such that it looks like
Cluster 1,2,6,5,3,4
Noting that a "normal" defrag would result in it being 1,2,3,4,5,6

Now, when this program is executed it will start faster because the clusters will be positioned on the disk, in the same order as they are being requested.
Also, now note that if you use some other program to look at the fragmentation of the drive, it will show as being fragmented, since all of these optimized programs are now fragmented (intentionally).

**Jim:
The number you may be thinking of is 50. This is the default value of the parameter that defrag uses to determine the maximum number of programs that it is going to optimize (using the information contained in \applog). Programs are optimized in descending order of usage counts, up to this max number.

 

That is exactly why I stick with MS defrag.

Although if for some reason I do move the Swap file I use Norton to put it at the beginning of the drive that I set it up on.

As soon as Norton gets the swap file to the front I kill it right there and do the rest with Windows defrag.

BillyBob

 

MS Defrag thinks that it is fragmented also.
If you have \Applog and just defragged using Optimize Programs, if you now run Defrag again, and UNselect Optimize Programs, defrag views the "optimized" programs as being fragmented and will defrag them!!

BTW I don't know why you dislike Speedisk. It's greatest feature is to allow you to "place" files on the disk. For example, I use it to "place" all my large, seldom changed files, (such as MP3's doc's, some program directories), at the very end of the drive. They are now, out of the way, 100% defragged, and will never need to be moved out of the way by a subsequent run of Speedisk. As well, it now moves my more frequently used files(as a side affect) closer to the front of the drive, which makes access faster. Also, (as a side affect), all the free space now moves closer to the front of the disk, since it is now placed before all my large, infrequently used files, instead of after them.

 

WhitPhil

I did not say that I did not like speed disk as I pretty much agree with what you say about the arrangement of files.

I just have not taken the time required to redo things.

I just have to make up my mind which one I am going to use.

And I believe you will agree that it is best to use one or the other as they do do thing VERY differently.

Question

I have partitions C: thru H: Could I just do 1 or 2 a day till I get them all done ? Or would it be better to do them all at once ?

BillyBob

 

You could do them all at once, one at a time, it really doesn't matter.

You just don't want to mix and match on the same partition. Ie: Run Scandisk today, Speedisk next time and then Scandisk again.

BUT, even if you did this, you will still end up with defragged drives. The difference is that they may not look "exactly" the same as if you used the same program.

 

WhitPhil--
"With Taskmon running, files are being created and updated in \Applog that contain info on how often programs run, what files they use, and the sequence of the clusters that are used to load up the program.
Defrag then uses this to move those programs to the front of the drive, and while doing so, it will "shuffle" around the clusters of a file, in order to make it load faster. "
"The number you may be thinking of is 50. This is the default value of the parameter that defrag uses to determine the maximum number of programs that it is going to optimize (using the information contained in \applog). Programs are optimized in descending order of usage counts, up to this max number. "
Seems to me you are agreeing with what I said--except the number 40 and I winged that one from memory by saying "or so ".
If you do not have TaskMon running how does Defrag know which programs are run the most?
On the other side of the coin, I think many now think that Defragging, itself, is not necessary because of the recent, much faster processor chips.

 

I think the confusion may be due to a misunderstanding of terms.

Optimizing is what TaskMon makes possible by monitoring usage frequency and loading patterns.

Defragging is what Defrag does and it can do that just fine without Taskmon thank you. Taskmon is just a little added tweaker program but when you are having problems, it should be the first thing to suspend.

 

That is true. BUT. Every time you change the order or freguency of running programs TaskMon makes change also. All this does is make DEFRAG take LONGER by having to re-arrange things AGAIN. Waht may have been first last time may well be last next time.

So it may make Programs load and work faster ( for a short time only ) but it also makes defrag take longer MUCH LONGER

So what you may gain in one place you may LOSE in another.

AMEN to that.

And I wiil add. Delete EVERYTHING in the Applog folder.

If TaskMonitor had anything to do with the actual Operating of Windows it would be one thing. But it does not. So therefore I myself consider it not needed.

Anytime I install windows from scratch TaskMonitor and the Schedular are the FIRST things to disappear. Windows does just fine without either one.

And if they re-appear with an overtop install they are first to go.

And I see no difference in speed with or without Taskmonitor. If there is any difference it is so dam small that it would be hard to see anyway.

Actually to or not to run Taskmonitor is a personal preference.

BillyBob

 

"Seems to me you are agreeing with what I said--except the number 40 and I winged that one from memory by saying "or so ".
If you do not have TaskMon running how does Defrag know which programs are run the most? "

Jim:
I'm not sure if Zephyr has cleared it up for you or not.
But, I am not agreeing with what you said.

Defrag will defrag all files, programs, etc., whether or not TaskMon is running. It doesn't care which programs run the most. A file is a file is a file. And defrag, defrags it.

With Taskmon running, defrag moves the top active programs (50 max) to the front of the drive, AND shuffles their clusters around to match the pattern that TaskMon saw as the programs loaded for execution. This is the optimization process. And, as I noted above, the resulting programs will most likely end up in a fragmented state, since their clusters may no longer be in sequence. They will be contiguous, but not in sequence.
But, this is exactly what the optimization process is meant to do.

And, on the fast drives these days, this is probably overkill and you most likely would not notice the difference between running an "optimized" program and a non optimized one.

 

Another thing that will have some effect on Defrag is the swap file.

Unless set to at least a minimum size it may be scattered from one end of the drive to the other making defrag have to work around it. And the larger the drive the wider it may be scattered.

That is one reason I have it set to a minimum size of 400meg, on another drive and put at the front by SpeedDisk. A file that size may not be needed. But just in case it is the space is reserved for it.

Of course this also speeds up the OS a little also by not having to go searching for room as the swap file is allways in one place.

BillyBob

 

OK, OK!!
So I have learned something from this BBS (again). What do you expect from a beginner?

BillyBob--Here is what PC World says about defragging the Swap File
"Swipe your swap file: Defragmenting your swap file will boost your PC's performance, but Windows' Disk Defragmenter doesn't work on your swap file because that file is always "in use." The workaround, however, is simple: Temporarily remove the swap file before defragmenting the drive. "
The whole article is here
http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,106700,pg,2,00.asp