Have Microsoft broken my computer!?!

My first post - so be gentle!

Hi, I sat down and turned on my computer this afternoon and found it was getting to the XP logo screen with the green bar and then just starting again - i.e. a new start up.

I promptly rang my computer "supplier" when it happened about 3-4 times. He finished my sentence when I explained what was happening. He said thirty people have already rang him today about it. It's the XP - update the new one. I downloaded and installed it last night (the bloody program basically forces you to do it with it's alerts and what-not).

So that was done. And now this afternoon my computer is a usless paperweight..

I did try to start it in safe mode and do a system recovery there - but it didn't "work" - i.e. it wouldn't accept it and now when I try to get back into safe mode - it just like the other options goes to a black screen

GAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!

The guy said (as he tried to lead me through to the screen where you can choose a previous 'good' version) - that because that technique didn't work - that I'll have to take it in. And it's a big job - it'll be about 3-4 hours. Now he didn't mention price - but I'm assuming that I will have to pay him. Why should I have to pay him when I got the computer only in october. And I FOLLOWED what the program/Microsoft wanted me to do. It should be Microsoft fixing it for me - or re-embursing me the repair costs!!

He said I wouldn't loose my data - as he'll use a ghost screen - or what ever.

I hope this is correct and can be promptly fixed on Monday. (Think of all the businesses this will effect).

I'm using my P133 to type this. Lucky I still had it.

GRRR.

Can anyone help?

I don't know anyone who can help - and I tried RINGING Microsoft, here in Australia and they are closed on a weekend!

Thanks

Andrew

 

First Andrew

Judging your appearent experience level I would reccomend you let the local guy fix it.

Perhaps the local repair guy will need time to get to it within 3-4 hours. Because restoring a ghosted image only takes minutes!

Ask him about this to let him know that you know that restoring a ghost image only takes 10-15 minutes. He may be setting you up for a price gouge. If he has the original image then he is your best option. Just don't let him overcharge to much!

And Microsoft! Forget it! First thing they will tell you is to return it to a Microsoft authorized dealer. But that they will talk to you for 200.00 US per hour!

I have done many SP1 upgrades. None have caused problems!

The next time you do this follow this proceedure!

Of course backup and/or set a restore point

1. Clean all temps including and especially Internet temps.

2. Clean and renove all Spy/Adware

3. Full deep settings virus scan

4. Check device manager for any device errors and correct

5. Disable all startup programs, especially Virus scanners and Firewalls. Reboot to assure they remain off thru a reboot.

When finished then turn these things on 1 at a time and reboot so that if there is a proble you will know which one.

Mike

 

Thanks for the prompt reply

OK, so a ghosting screen doesn't take long.

He did say that 30 people had already rung him today - err yesterday (Saturday anyway). He said it also happened to about 5 computers he had set up ready to be tested/installed with all their updates etc. And it happened to each one of them.

With the guide you gave me about updates... when do I do all this. The Microsoft prompt appears and says it's time to download a new update - do it now? Sorta thing. Should I do this WHEN it's been downloaded and installed - but BEFORE it says do you want to restart the computer?

I didn't think these updates were such a big deal - how come all the other's I've done (followed) haven't turned out like this?

A friend on a music-board who I think is into computers replied to me earlier saying that he thinks it's something to do with Microsoft when updating the driver database assigns an incorrect video driver for my system - and that I've gotto go into VGA Mode (which I haven't seen - he says it's accessible through the F8 screen) and reassign the correct video driver! Now exactly where would I find that - would that be the discs that came with the 'puter when we got it??

This is a night-mare.

And going back to the local tech-guy... he says he'd have to go into that ghost screen?? and in my words - take out the old XP and reinstall a new version without those newest updates. So is this right - is my internet friend right?

Oh and I didn't get this sentence: "Perhaps the local repair guy will need time to get to it within 3-4 hours. "

you mean - backlog of work? Maybe.

This is all a nightmare.

And I shouldn't loose any data should I?? - All those hard-downloaded mp3s!! Nah only joking - I've got a lot of assignments and graphics artwork to save. Yes I should back up on a removable media - and I do - but not CONTINUALLY - there is a point!

Thankyou again. Any more info please reply.

Andrew Rayfield

P.S. Should I try doing what the internet friend said to try - by going in through VGA mode? and reassigning the Video driver??

Andrew

 

Andrew

quote:
________________________________________________
Oh and I didn't get this sentence: "Perhaps the local repair guy will need time to get to it within 3-4 hours. "
________________________________________________

Answer: yes because it only takes 10-15 minutes to ghost an existing image back normally!

From you 1st post it apeared your tech guy could not get you to the required place to get to "Last known good configuration" which is where you need to be also to get to the "VGA mode ".

Since you are on another computer now go back to the XP unit and turn it on and immediately begin tapping the F8 key quickly. If it stops on a screen that allows these choices then you have a chance.

If it stops on this screen "DO NOT CHOSE LAST KNOWN..." chose vga mode 1st then give us a call!

If the Vga mode can be chosen and still does not work then reboot and try the "Last known good... "

If one of these work do not fly into fixing or trouble shooting before you copy/backup/save any way you can the important files and documents.

YES YOU can lose documents and files if the ghost image overlays the entire drive. If you do end up taking to the local guy then tell him about this data so that he can take steps tp protect it!

Mike

 

PS

Your question on updates.

YES if you can, even for day to day normal critical updates and such.

BUT ABSOLUTELY if it is a large major update as a service pack!

Mike

 

Do MS updates this way: http://www.windows-help.net/WindowsXP/howto-10.html instead of on the fly.

Regards - Charles

 

whutz upppppppp Andrew?

Mike

 

soon as I seen the thread title I thought ''Probably''

 

OK I've tried a lot of those options

OK, I have tried most of the options you guys have suggested - to no avail (before you mentioned them - just to tell you everything)

I tried going to F8 then into safe mode - which worked the first time. I looked at the previous system recover points - and saw that the last update was a V4 update plus the installation of this:

Installed Windows XP Q328310

So I went to add/remove programs and removed it.

Then I restarted the computer - same thing happened

Restarted tried to go safe mode again - starts - with the whol edos screen filling up with white text on a black background (for the sake of telling you everything) listing a lot of file names - and then it just sits there after filling most of the screen with several lines of file names (last safe mode - it moved beyond that screen).

Oh, while in safe mode the first time - i tried to return to the system recover point from Wednesday - didn't "take" and then tried Monday's again it "didn't take ".

So after I restarted after removing that Windows XP Q328310 - it came to a black screen again - after the Windows DOS logo with green bar.

----

I have tried to go through the F8 screen's "recover from previous good copy" - which didn't work - black screen

----

I tried that friend's suggestion of going through VGA mode - again black screen.

BUT everything is still there - well at least I hope it is - seeing as I could get in there when I did the FIRST 'safe mode'. Safe mode doesn't work anymore.

GRrr.

Anymore suggestions?

It's nice that microsoft let you know before you install these things (so what I installed was a service pack? What is the difference between that and those Windows Update V4's??) that you should back up your stuff because what you are doing is something that isn't a routine proceedure - not. That is why they put it on the bottom bar and it keeps popping up in your face everytime it wan't you to install it. GRRR.

 

Andrew

I don't like to defend Microsoft but consider the variables of the BIOS revision, some software you have installed, maybe some spy or adware or even a virus, all of these can effect this.

The things that were running when you did it.

So anyway!

The next step is to put in the XP CD boot from it and when XP detects an existing installation it will ask you what to do. Chose (r) repair installation! Cross your fingers!

Mike

 

It's not just me.

The thing is - it's NOT just me - as I've said when I rang the computer shop (on Saturday) he had already had 30 phonecalls that day. He had 5 computers with NOTHING but Windows and their updates installed that he was prepairing in his shop - All of them had the SAME thing happen. The computer just keeps restarting over and over and over and over again. Some - he said have been lucky and the 'recovery' function has taken. Most haven't

It's Monday today, and I took my 'puter in first thing - the phone was ringing off the hook and he said he'd already had other people that had rung him. One a lawyer had already had 2 computers stuffed up - from the updates - and he had downloaded the update this morning. He stopped updating on the other computers after the 2nd one went. Microsoft still hadn't - as of 9am AEST hadn't taken the update off their site.

This is going to cost me money (probably $75) and it's MICROSOFT who should be either paying my bill or paying the Computer guy for the time he's spent recovering computers.

Yes or no?

 

AndrewR - you are for sure not alone in this.

Mike - FWIW I did the SP1 thing on an XP box at work (mine). Same, exact symptoms as AndrewR and never did figure out a fix. Wound up having to do the format, install thing but did have an install with SP1 slipstreamed in that worked fine.

In my case, the problem was I believed the update when it said complete. Rather than logging on I rebooted. Bad idea as it turned out and it never did work after that. Per the XP support folks for the company, if I'd logged on, the update would have completed normally and I'd not have had problems. They also had a rash of this and by the time I'd broken mine, they had figured out the "you gotta log on to complete the update" part but hadn't had enough time to let folks know.

 

OK! Andrew if Newt can't fix it without reformating then the guy with the image is you best bet.

Wish we could have done more!

Mike

Newt, exactly which update is this?

 

XP-Pro SP1.

But complicated by the fact that my work PC is a "semi-managed" PC where I as local admin can do lots of system tweaking but the real control resides with some IT folks in New York. Things like registry changes may stay or the may be un-done by the load at startup or logon time. So I can't be sure if the issue was pure XP-Pro SP1 or some sort of goof by the NY guys.

This is one of several thousand systems they are using to pilot a large XP roll out to our fancy, new AD domain in 2003. Possible systems are unmanaged (local admin user has full control and I don't know anybody with one of those), semi-managed (as described) and fully managed where the user can use but nothing else.

They push software loads and updates down to us automatically too so one day I might well start up and have a huge update run before I can log on. The XP SP was one of those.

In defense of IT centralized management, it does make sense in this case. The new domain will include all Microsoft PCs for 3 major corporations located in the US. With our company, they will be replacing a mis-mash of Win95 (lots), NT4, and 2K-Pro PCs and releasing control of all sites outside the US. Not sure but my guess is they will be rolling out over 30K PCs and it could easily be closer to 50K. Right now they have 96 DCs up and running to support the domain.

 

Rather Lengthy Update

Things have taken a turn for the worse

Welp, things have taken a turn for the worse. I dropped the 'puter in at the store first thing his morning. They were going to do a back-up and wipe of the computer (They were getting more calls with people encountering the same problem as I was standing there - one guy had his server automatically do the updates - same thing happened to it).

So I leave it and go home. Get a phone call saying it would cost me $129 to get the wipe AND back up done.

I say go ahead - as what other option did I have!?! I decide to ring Microsoft - I get put through to the tech support. After trying to explain what had happened and bascially getting no where - the guy said I had to have the computer in front of me before they would let me talk to a tech guy.

I said it was at the shop and that it's costing me 129 bucks to get something fixed that Microsoft have basically caused (here is a little extra - was told by the people at the shop that they had a computer on the bench that was being assmbled for a client that had windows and it's updates installed and the restart problem happened. They were perplexed so decided to build a complete new system - they installed ONLY XP and it's updates. No antivirus - nothing else (this was one of the excuses I was given by Microsoft - fair enough) - the SAME problem occured. So they said any problem that had arisen due to a Microsoft update would be fixed by them (or helped to be fixed I guess).

They said I needed the computer so they could go through it with me. So I ring the store up and ask if it is too late to get the computer home? They say no - it is in the middle of a Ghost 50% or so. But that shouldn't matter. I drive and pick my compter back up. I ask again that is the computer the same as it is when I brought it in. He said yes.

Get home, ring Microsoft - get told the bit about the anti-virus programs (I tell them about what has happened at the store - i.e. nothing but XP and the updates.) I ask if they've had anyone else ring up with my problem - they said that this is the first instance they've had all day.

Get to a tech guy who specialises in updates (supposedly) called Ben. So I follow his instructions - I turn on the computer and press F8 once every second to get into the F8 screen. This doesn't happen - I get a peculiar error message.

He tells me to restart the computer and get into the BIOS - I do. He tells me to look for the BIOS startup (I think) - and I go into it (enter) and just read what each thing said - like something something - enabled etc. He says ok fine - exit.

He said to restart the computer - this time using the XP CD ROM in the drive. (Which reminds me - is still in the drive and the computer shop has my computer).



We start up and get to the press any key to continue - do that - and get to the 3 option screen.

First point start XP, second point (can't remember details), 3rd point exit.

He tells me to take the second point. Do so.
Enter what looks like a dos screen - but the cursor is different. It has a C:\> prompt. I tell him this - he thinks that is strange. He says type in cd windows - do that - error message. He says
type dir - error.

He now is away from the phone for a bit (I gather to seek guidance). He comes back and says
type exit (which is what it says to do) to exit.

He tells me that 'we' will have to perform a new folder install. He tells me to start the computer
again with the XP disc in the drive. I do - he tells me to take the first option. I do. I enter a
blue-screened area. Down the bottom it says Partition (unknown) 52342 (5 rest of numbers made up) Mb - out of 52341 Mb - free. (This even to me doesn't look good.)

Under it says (some other partition) 1Mb or so.
He says that that isn't correct and that he could NOT advise me to go any further since legally
he couldn't - as it would require or end up with me erasing Data. So he said leave that screen
F3 to exit and turn the computer off. He says take it back to the store and that they will have
to recover the Data (if it is still on!!) They will have to take the hard drive out and put it into another computer.

I'm ABSOLUTELY thrilled at this point. (not).

I go BACK to the shop (before hand I ring up the shop and get the owner!!) Mentioned what has happened - I double check with him that it is indeed true that exiting the ghost halfway through was fine - he said NO - I get a bit tetchy at him - wires crossed for a second - he explains it's OK that the computer that I took home would have been identicle to the computer I took in - i.e. that ghosting is only a copy - the original data would be still there - I breath a sigh of relief.

I get to the shop - the person who was working on my computer earlier greats me - and I give back my computer (of course at the end of the queue now.). I mention to him the error that I got when I booted up my computer when I brought it home - he says he didn't get any error like that. He had booted from a boot disk floppy - anyway. I told him what had happend.

He thought it was strange (oh the owner of the shop - on the phone earlier said something like
{this is when I mentioned that Microsoft would lead me through the fix} - that they seem to know
what they are doing - when no one else knows what is going on. And that I mentioned it didn't
work - and he said that Microsoft would have told me the wrong thing - I told him exactly
what I mentioned above - that no 'commands' were entered and nothing was 'changed' the person on the phone only got me to look and read what I saw - and that they couldn't go on as it would require me to wipe stuff - which legally they can't advise.

Back to the guy at the shop who was working on my computer. I double check with him if there was anything wierd/error-ish/abnormal when he was working on my computer. He said that when he was running Norton Ghost (or what ever it is called) that it said the Hard Drive had a weak partition and that it would proceed sector by sector and in his words "he got a list of options he'd never seen before ". He proceeded with the sector by sector choice. This is what was happening when I rang the first time - to ask if it was safe to cancel the ghosting.

He said maybe the Hard drive was faulty - but answered his own question saying it has Smart Disk which would have alert him or me to the fact that there was a hard drive problem and that I was to shut down and get it looked at.

So I leave the computer with him at 4:30pm. I'm worried that I've lost everything. He says that there are still other ways and programs to look at my hard-drive to see if the data is still there.
This will be done tomorrow I guess. I'm worried.

He says that they might be able to reform the old partition and retrieve the data - if that's correct?

So, to summarise -
Friday night: Download Microsoft update and install. Shut down computer.

Saturday: Turn on computer - it keeps restarting - ring the place of purchase and told that it has been happening to a lot of customers.

Sunday

Monday: Take computer to store 9:00am

Phone call at 12pm told that wipe and install = $79; wipe, install and BACKUP of data $129.
OK the $129 - what else?

1pm ring Microsoft - told to have my computer in front of me - told they haven't heard of my
reported problems. Rang shop - told them Microsoft's story and OK'd to bring home PC.

2pm (times are rough) - Computer home, ring Microsoft - nothing much achieved due to
errors. Told to take it back to the store.

3:30pm - computer at store. Told that there WERE strange errors by the person who was working on my computer - proceeded anyway with half-a-ghost screen. Told shouldn't matter stopping halfway in middle of ghost. Told that he doesn't know what's wrong - and would be looked at tomorrow (Tuesday).

4:30pm go home tired.

OK, that is EVERYTHING up till now.

It's a long post - I know - but It's best to get everything down.

1. I'm worried I've lost all my data
2. I'm worried I'm going to have to pay exorbitant fees
3. I'm worried that The shop will blame microsoft and microsoft will blame the shop.
4. I hope some of you are still reading this post!

Andrew

 

a backhanded compliment

Andrew--
I realize the intent of your query isn't to supply entertainment, but it has been fun reading your account. I hope someone smarter than me can assist you, but thanks for the update. Seriously, good luck.
Ed
PS: I've been fortunate to NOT have your problems so I guess it's easy for me to smile at your story.

 

Andrew,

Hang in there. I'm sure all of us are pullin' for you. Have Xp Home on this laptop and W95B on older laptop.

Interesting the older laptop is slow, but more stable. Rarely causes trouble or crashes. Xp is another story but is fast!

Haven't installed SP1 because of all the horror stories out there. Why oh why won't M$ address an obvious problem!?

Wish I could help you, but this is way beyond my experience and skills -- real old DOS, lunix nut.

Bob

 

1. If they can't get a successful Ghost, you may be right.
2. You probably will but at this point, it is your best chance to avoid #1. For future reference, you should develop some sort of backup routine so you had archived copies of all your data files.
3. Possibly. If so, I'd find a different shop next time I had problems.
4. Well, at least one person is.

 

DANG Newt ................

I've put it on 10 or 12 computers. Most have been on the bench after a new XP install which is the way I like to do them, even before applications, virus scanners or firewalls. But at least 4 after all of these were active.

Do you think M$ has changed something?

I understand your case! But these others?

Sorry late getting back but been traveling.

Mike

PS Just thought! The difference is I have a practice of downloading the SP. Normal small updates I do d/l online. But for large major SP's I disconect unload all startups virus scanning firewalls etc. They are doing it online! Hmmmm.....

 

I had problems after installing SP1. I uninstalled and followed the procedures outlined by Mike, and it was a successful installation and no further problems. With that said, if one considers all the variations to interface hardware components and software applications; there probably are going to be problems regardless. But the number of problems experienced by this local tech-guy may have something to do with his diagnosis and involvement. His statistics are questionable.