connection problem on 1 of 2 PC's on LAN

thnx, I'll try those tonoght

i really appreaciate the amount of help you gave me
thnx

 

just 1 more question...

both machines are on differet subnet & gateway, is this normal/expected??

 

Not normal but OK if it works.

But I thought you hard coded the gateway and dns etc from the one that was normal to the one we were working on.

Then had to let it find only the ip?

This all comes down to dhcp and client server settings.

I don't know how the router is setup and nothing about the other machine. Something is different but if it works I would not tinker!

Mike

 

Oh yes!

Did you check out Black Viper the other and sites I sent? If so did you implement any of them?

Mike

 

i can't hard code the gateway/subnet without hardcoding the IP, so i had to let it obtain automatically

i manually entered dns (same os other machine)

-----------------
i download most of the apps and implemented most
havn't had mush time to play with some of them

thnx,

 

Gasolene - PCs on different networks (which you will have with different subnet masks) can't talk together well without some fancy footwork on routing tables that you normally can't do with the router/switch devices designed for home use.

And the gateway address must be the IP address of whatever device provides you internet access. Should be the same for both PCs unless you have mutiple devices (like routers or ICS hosts) pointing to different ISPs.

I haven't been following this thread too closely but I saw a couple of things in one of the ipconfig displays that look like they might indicate a problem. Can't say for sure because you did the XXX thing over some of the information.

If you are working fine and all problems gone, ignore this. But if you still have any problems at all, please do the following (parts may already be shown somewhere but at 3 pages, I just don't want to look around that much):

- Say how you are connecting to the internet (router, ICS, what).
- post a complete (no XXX) copy of ipconfig /all from both PCs.

XP does a couple of strange things with network settings (by design and as written by Microsoft but still strange) if an XP PC has connection problems. They will usually show up in the ipconfig display.

 

i can share files on both machines using the LAN

only 1 switch 2 PC's and ADSL
switch is D-Link DSS-5+

ADSL to switch, then from switch to PC's

------------------------------------------------------------------------
machine (1) this is one with connection problems
------------------------------------------------------------------------
C:\>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : COMPUTER1
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : ab.hsia.telus.net
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : D-Link DFE-530TX PCI Fast Ethernet A
dapter (rev.A)
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 205.206.21.210
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.248.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 205.206.16.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 209.115.152.149
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 209.115.131.51
209.115.152.150
216.123.198.243
209.115.152.130
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:01:28 A
M
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:01:28
AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------
good machine:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
C:\>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : COMPUTER2
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : ab.hsia.telus.net
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8139/810X Family PCI Fast
Ethernet NIC #2
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 142.179.252.212
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.240.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 142.179.240.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 209.115.152.149
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 209.115.131.51
209.115.152.150
216.123.198.243
209.115.152.130
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, December 08, 2002 5:29:42 PM

Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, December 12, 2002 5:29:42
PM

 

Thanks for stepping in Newt!

Gasloene

Your comment in last message refferenced
quote

------------------------------------------------------------------------
machine (1) this is one with connection problems
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope you ment here that it was formerly the problem.

I thought everything now worked. Although in an unusual setup!

Is that correct or have more problems shown up.

Anyways, tell us about your ADSL device. Is it a DSL modem only or DSL/router combo?

Mike

 

yes, i meant that "was" the problem computer,
It seems to have good connection now.

ADSL service: I use the supplied D-Linksys ADSL modem, then to a switch.
from the switch to both PC's

 

10-4!

At work now. Will get back thiss evening.

Mike

 

Gasolene - thanks for the detail.

I did not see what I expected which is a bogus class B IP address on one of the PCs. And that is a good thing. Microsoft decided the situation that exists with NT4/2K when you start them up and they can't find their network was not good. Basically they go a little nuts and take forever to boot up - with errors after they finally do. So with XP, they stuck in some code that will assign a random IP address from live class B addresses at boot time. The machine appears to start up fine but on a normal network, will not see the rest of the network.

However, for you to have a PC with
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 205.206.21.210
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.248.0

and another with

IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 142.179.252.212
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.240.0

able to use
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 209.115.152.149
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 209.115.131.51

and able to see each other at all indicates your ISP has router tables set to pass information from all these networks to other PCs on their LAN. And BTW - you are looking at 4 different networks here as a minimum.

I'm surprised you aren't also seeing all the other PCs with accounts on this ISP. And them seeing you as well.

Bottom line is that no matter how carefully the ISP has set things up, I think you face some potential security issues that as you are configured now, you have no control over at all.

Suggestions (and you may already have done this - as I said before, the thread is just too darned long and I could easily have missed some stuff)

1. Best recommendation - get yourself a router/switch at a cost of around $50 US and hide your PCs behind it. The router can take either of the current PC settings to use for it's internet side and will assign your PCs local addresses that aren't so wide open. The router/switch will also come with a firewall built in that will add some protection. You can let the ISP have the other IP address back since you will only need the one.

2. Otherwise, run NetBeui on your PCs, put them in the same workgroup, and let them talk that way. Then if you have NetBios over TCP/IP enabled on your PCs (probable at this point) disable it. And make sure you are running good software firewalls on both PCs. It will still leave you a little more exposed than option #1 but will be about as secure as you can get without your own network at home. NetBeui will allow your PCs to share files, printers, etc. but any traffic will die when it hits the first router so no one can sneak in via that means.

 

more problems!

more connection problems

when i said i could send/recieve files using "msn messenger" that was outside of network on the net.

However i tried to send/recieve in local area network, from machine to machine, and i was blocked.

note: i CAN send / recieve files using shared resources so I assume there is a blocked port that is out of my control

note: firewall was off on both PC's for test
-----------------------------------------------------------------
does this mean that i have to put both machines on th same subnet, if so how, my isp supplies everything

 

1 more note:

even with no IP/gateway/DNS
i can still talk to my other machine

 

OK Gasolene

Newt confirmed my suspicions about the ISP. I have never seen this before but it had to come from some where besides your other computer or router (but you have no router).

Try this it may work?

On problem machine hard code the ip that it wants to use so you can turn off DHCP. But also hard code the other Gateway to match the other computer.

If the above don't work.

Like Newt says the way the ISP is configured which is probably an error there is not much you can do.

I agree with Newt a router could handle this for you. But if you use a local s/w firewall then you should be OK!

As an aside! A hacker would love this setup! Smile!

Also as to access without ip! You have little green men helping you this is against nature! Smile!

UNLESS you have netbeui installed and I have never actually tried this without an IP.

Mike

 

PS forgot to mention.

The ability to send instant message in house station to station.

If this is the only problem, considering all else seems unimportant if everything else works. But maybe you do something unusual here that absolutely requires this.

Mike

 

k, I'll gic this a try tonight

what i meant, is i released my isp "ipconfig /release" so ipconfig displayed
IP 0.0.0.0 (so i had no net connection. but could still talk to other machine.)

I don't hav NETBUI, but I do have...
Client for MS networks
File/Printer Shareing
QoS Paket...
NWLink NetBIOS
IPX/XPX
TCP/IP

file transfer over MSN is not required however "remote access" is.

note: remote access / MSN messenger both used to work and now niether work (similar messages, time out, blocked ect...)

It seems that i can't communicate at all with other machine over internet,
but communicating over LAN works fine

 

Its the IPX/SPX that is allowing them to talk. Good protocol. Novell developed it and used it for all their stuff until recently.

Like NetBeui, put PCs on the same wire and give em a common home (workgroup in this case) and they talk.

You certainly do not need both IPX & NetBeui and since the one is working, ignore the other.

And as to the NWLink Netbios, take a look Here and see if it is anything you want to keep running. Harmless but may just be clutter you'll never make use of.

 

k, i set my IP to the own it gave me, then set gateway/dns/subnet to match other machine

it seems to work, but doesn't help me connect to other machine

 

more problems...

I'm getting lousy connection again

i havn't done anything different

some pages only load part of the pageand require multiple refreshes

other pages do not load at all, no DNS error. It just waits forever. evetually time out after 1 min or so

other machine has non of these symptoms


--------------------------------
below was added after reading next post
--------------------------------
please note: i have reset all tcp/ip settings to 'obtain automatically' prior to posting this message

 

Changing the subnet mask may well (probably in fact) cause you problems. The following is a little "subnet masking 101 ".

For either the IP address or the subnet mask to make sense, you have to translate them from decimal to binary. The function of the netmask is to tell your PC which part of the ip address is the network and which is the specific PC address - and it does this by specifying that any part of the ip that has a mask of 1 is network and a mask of 0 is machine address.

193.225.128.21 decimal = 11000001.11100001.10000000.00010101 binary

a) 255.255.255.0 decimal = 11111111.11111111.11111111.00000000 binary
b) 255.255.0.0 decimal = 11111111.11111111.00000000.00000000 binary
c) 255.255.240.0 decimal = 11111111.11111111.11110000.00000000 binary
d) 255.255.248.0 decimal = 11111111.11111111.11111000.00000000 binary

So with an IP address of 192.168.128.21, subnet mask
a) gives a network address of 192.224.128 & a max of 253 PCs
b) gives a network address of 192.224 & a max of 63,998 PCs
c) ....well, you get the idea

Using the above setups, the same IP address would be on 4 different networks. Only other PCs on the same network could talk to them unless a router had been set to pass info from one to the other.

Bottom line - you gotta use the correct subnet mask and "correct" in this situation is whatever the ISP is using.