Resolved Monitor(s) Flash On and Off and Lock Up

Hi Robert,

Any room to add additional fans?

Excluding PSU and CPU how many fans are in your system (most M/boards and cases can have 2 additional fans installed).

Although it is looking like heat did you test the memory with memtest?

 

Wildfire,

I looked through the chassis and didn't see a spot that seemed to lend itself to installing an additional fan. Obviously there is room inside the case for an added fan but I couldn't figure out how to attach it and how to hook one up. I did look and the manual and did some googling but didn't find anything definitive. One site I went to mentioned a problem with connectors for added electronics.

I have two fans - the one from the power supply and the one that vents from the heat sink.

I didn't have any luck with the "memtest ". The one I found was a $10 download. It did list some downloads further down on the page but I couldn't figure out if I was supposed to download any of them - too many choices and not enough expertise.

** Memtest86+ V4.00 (22/09/2009) **

Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.gz)
Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.zip)

Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable Binary (.gz)
Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable Binary (.zip)

Download - Pre-Compiled EXE file for USB Key (Pure DOS)

Download - Pre-Compiled package for Floppy (DOS - Win)

I should add that just a while ago I experienced the freeze again - with the side panel off and the desktop fan going. That is when I removed the ducting in order to get air flow directly to the heat sink.

Below is a shot of my chassis. Note that there is normally a piece of plastic ductwork between the heat sink and the fan which I removed.

 

A lot of dust in that heatsink, I thought you'd cleaned it out?

Memtest is free software, you should not be asked for any payment though voluntary donations are welcome.

Using the link I provided download either the Precompiled Bootable ISO (.zip) if you have a CD Writer or Package for floppy (if you have a floppy drive).

The freeze whilst panel off and desk-fan running may just be a coincidence but if it happens again let us know.

 

Wildfire,

Regarding the dust on the heatsink - the thumbnail you see has a shadow on it. Under direct light, the heat sink is all bright and shiny. I couldn't get the camera and the light synced up to produce a good photo. But I did blow it out very good with compressed air. I didn't use anything to try to wipe it down - was fearful of bending the fins or doing something to damage it.

I downloaded the memtest floppy program. I unzipped the files and ran an install - but it seems to quit. The install indicated complete and it ran but I never saw any result such as a log or anything like that. I'm not sure I know how to do the one that involves ISO. I do have a CD burner but don't know how to download or run an ISO set up.

 

If memtest completed the floppy write then it's a boot disk, restart your computer booting from the floppy, let memtest do it's stuff and post back.

 

Hi Robert,

In my opinion, heat very probably, memory/RAM maybe.

To me, it seems to be the graphics adapter (GPU) crashing (having problems). You have two monitors connected to it. It does not not have it's own fan (you can see the graphics adapter card is butted up against another PCI card in the photo). You can try taking the gaphics card out and cleaning any dust off, you can try cleaning the connectors with a pure form of alcohol (I suggest getting proper Contact Cleaner if you are going to have an ongoing interest).

On the left-hand side of the photo you can see a sliding door. If the computer is "enclosed" it won't have access to cooling air. Damage may have been done to the chips already, the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) is the hottest running chip in the computer.

Try reducing the resolution on each of the screens.Try running one monitor without the other.

The computer needs a good supply of cooling air. Don't enclose it.

Matt

 

Wildfire,

I was finally able to get the memtest to run - didn't think of using the floppy as the initial boot. It did reflect the correct amount of memory - 3 GB. It took about 30 or 40 minutes to run and then posted a message in the center of the screen:

Mattman,

I haven't had a chance to try any of your suggestions yet. Will work on that tonight when my wife is ready to close out her computer.

One thing you mentioned which I had noted is that my card does not have it's own fan. Would it be worthwhile for me to look at replacing the card with one that does have it's own fan? In anticipation that this may be something I need to do, I have contacted NVIDIA and asked them for recommendations of cards that have self contained fans that could be used - and fit - in this computer. I checked out a couple of the mail order places but couldn't determine which of the many graphics adapters would work with my configuration. I also looked at some add-on fans but those looked to be a bit technically challenging to install.

You noted that the sliding door may be part of my problem. The furniture we are using for our computer stations have roll out platforms for our computers. We don't turn on the computers without rolling them out for air flow.

 

Not having much luck. I leave the side panel off all the time now with a table top fan blowing air on it constantly. We are still experiencing the freeze and one of the monitors flashing on and off. We tried using a single monitor but still experienced the problem. When the freeze happens, I turn the machine off using the power button. After a few minutes wait, we turn the computer back on and it works normally until the freeze occurs again - can be a few minutes to a few hours.

I took the graphics card out and cleaned the contacts as suggested. I will give it another try in the morning. I had contacted NVIDIA to see if they could recommend a satisfactory replacement with but no luck. I did locate a GE Force 5200 that might be worth trying. It does have a fan built into the heat sink. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5656294&CatId=935 My problem with that is I don't know if this particular one can be used in place of the current card. It appears that everything matches, but I don't know for sure.

 

You need to get familiar with the Dell support website. Use the link "Find my Service Tag" here
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/index.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
The Service Tag should tell you the original hardware configuration of the system. I expect it is a Dell Dimension 6400, but that is not the exact model and could be modified (the Service Tag should tell you the hardware configuration).

The graphics adapter might be AGP or PCIe x16 (I don't think it will be PCIe). If it is AGP, check if is 8X or 4X, that might be significant.

An NVIDIA Geforce 5200 is a base model. If you are going to get a new graphics adapter you might want to take advantage and go up a level or two. ALTHOUGH, a graphics adapter with a fan won't help much if heated air is being blown onto it (the air in the case has already been heated by other chips).

On the other hand, using a desk fan is no longer making a difference (and that should supply the most amount of cooling air), The supply of cool air does not seem to be a factor any more.

Before blaming a hardware failure, I would look at the software installed for managing the graphics (not the drivers). Dell would have supplied it's own software, if you have upgraded the Service Pack or installed Microsoft suggested drivers (optional Windows Updates), it may have upgraded the drivers, but not the software.

Try searching or asking at the Dell Community Forums.

Matt

 

I removed the card last evening and cleaned it up (carefully) - particularly the contacts. We turned the computer on this morning and it ran all day without any problem and closed down normally. I'm guardedly optimistic.

I will put the side panel back on tomorrow and see what impact that might have. Early on I checked the drivers on the NVIDIA site and found that the drivers were up to date. I did go to the Dell site and used the Service Tag to see the original configuration but I couldn't get much specific information on the card.

I'm not sure I know what I am looking for on the software for managing the graphics. I will do some more nosing around at Dell and see what I can come up with. My wife is out for a couple of days for surgery so it will be a few days before I can report anything further. Thanks for all your help so far.

 

Mattman and Wildfire,

I'm back. The computer has been fairly stable over the past week - one or two freezes. Today I uninstalled the driver and downloaded and installed the latest from NVidia - yet again.

While uninstalling, I noticed a couple of icons in the Control Panel I had never seen (noticed?) before - one was NVidia Control Panel and the other was NVidia Desktop Manager. I could open the Desktop Manager and it has a lot of tweaks and things that you can make. The other icon - Control Panel - must be my problem. I could click on it to open it but as soon as it appeared on the monitor, it froze the system immediately. So it appears that maybe I finally discovered the software that you mentioned Mattman. I would uninstall it but it is not listed in the Add/Remove programs list.

I have registered to post at the NVidia site to see what they suggest. As soon as I hear something I will post back.

 

You found the nVidia Control Panel, that could well be where you need to make the settings.

I have found that you should use the nVidia Control Panel, not Windows Display settings. Like you have found, when I have been making settings for dual monitors, one or even both can go blank.

If you need help or instructions, open the nVidia Control Panel and go to the Help Menu, here is the general information about dual monitors

As I said before, don't choose very high resolutions or widely different resolutions on the screens, since it will make it difficult for the graphics card to run (and could cause overheating).

I don't know if I mentioned it, did you move the PCI card that was next to the graphics card to another slot, so that cooling air can circulate around it?

Something I have also thought about is if the power supply might be starting to get overloaded. Dell usually only supply a PSU that will only just run the standard hardware supplied with it. I even balk at adding an extra HDD. You have added extra memory, run the graphics card pretty hard, have you added any other hardware? Dells work fine in their original configuration, they can start "falling over" if you modify them. If I want to add any hardware to a Dell, unless it is relatively basic change, I check the "size" of the power supply. (Don't forget that USB devices will also draw power, think about getting a self-powered hub if there are more than one or two.) Read and do the calculation here:
http://www.journeysystems.com/?power_supply_calculator

Matt

 

Mattman & all,

Thought I would provide an update. Had a death in the family last weekend so haven't spent any time on this issue.

Up until last weekend, we had still been experiencing the freeze problems and I was dealing with a tech at Nvidia who was leading me through a whole lot of driver updates and video card stress tests. I couldn't even start the stress test without the computer freezing.

I finally got frustrated and bought a Sparkle Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 card and put it in this morning. All seems to have gone well today. No freezes or lockups and I was able to run the stress test that the Nvidia tech wanted run on on the old card. I got a benchmark score of 10 on the new card which is within the acceptable range. I was also able to open and run several videos that previously had caused the freezes. So, with fingers crossed, I will continue to monitor the situation and I will post a followup after a few days - hopefully adding the "Resolved" notation.

Mattman - as a possible size/contributing? issue, I downloaded the power calculator you suggested. My power supply is 250 watts and the test told me I needed 329 watts. So I may take a look at going to a 350 watt power supply. I don't know much about electronics but I would assume that a stressed power supply could cause other components - such as a graphics card - to experience problems.

 

Sounds hopeful.

I have a machine with a 6600 GT, on some occasions it might tell me that there is not enough power and it is going into a lower power mode. I don't think the 5200 would have that ability so yours might just continue trying to run at full power. Watch carefully if there seems to be any instability.

Matt

 

Wildfire and Mattman,

We have been running the machine without any freezes or falters for several days now. So it appears that the problem was the graphics card. My thanks to both of you for your help and all the suggestions. I don't think I wanted to learn this much about video/graphics cards - but it's been good experience. I will mark this one resolved.