Resolved Need RAM recommendations for MSI KT4V-L

No distinct advantage - just trying to provide maximum bang for the buck. You made a good choice for that system with the Kingston. Since you are going to be running asynchronis (333Mhz Barton core) with 400Mhz memory, yo can play around with your memory timings but your best approach is trial and error with torture testing. Do you still have that little utility program I sent you a couple of years ago? It would be ideal to assist in achieving max speed with stability. With that board and that memory, I don't think I'd recommend playing with your FSB much. Then again, trial and error under stress will answer this for you.

Regards,

 

I still have the mem32 (memtest86) and stabilitytest.exe. What is the order you recommend for adjusting the memory timing. I know to change the BIOS from by SPD to by User and then adjustment of the four settings are allowed. I still have your step by step instructions that I used on my son's computer. Would you recommend that I follow the same steps? Thanks for the help.

 

The stability test is what I was referencing. No, I would not use the same recommendations as used on your son's computer. Personally, I would run with stock settings (by speed or auto in BIOS) for a while. If that gives you 100% stability and throws no errors, I'd be inclined to leave well enough alone.

If tinker you must, look at changing CAS to a lower value without any other changes. Additional fine tuning is going to require running those utilities but (personal preference) I'd use the stability test because it does a great job of taxing a system. In reality, most users will never be able to determine a difference in memory speeds without benchmarking utilities. Again, I'd be inclined to leave well enough alone. Stability is what you really want to achieve.

 

You're right. Stability is the most important factor, and that is what I will seek. Thanks.

 

i never had any probs running cas 3-3-3-8 memory at 2.5-3-3-7 which is what it will run at at pc2700 (ddr333) which is also the setting the the spd will most likely use aswell

 

My new RAM arrived and I installed it into my computer. While I was at it, I also added a Mushkin PC3200 512MB stick, giving me 2.5GB of RAM. Please let me know if you'd recommend that I remove the Mushkin stick.

Here is some information I got from Everest:

Front Side Bus Properties
Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width 64-Bit
Real Clock 167 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 333 MHz
Bandwidth 2666 MB/s
Memory Bus Properties
Bus Type DDR SDRAM
Bus Width 64-Bit
Real Clock 167 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 333 MHz
Bandwidth 2666 MB/s
Chipset Bus Properties
Bus Type VIA V-Link
Bus Width 8-Bit
Real Clock 67 MHz (ODR)
Effective Clock 533 MHz
Bandwidth 533 MB/s

Physical Memory
Total 2047 MB 2559 MB
Used 423 MB 417 MB
Free 1624 MB 2141 MB
Utilization 21% 16%

Memory Speed PC3200 (200MHz)
Module Width 64 bit
Module Voltage SSTL 2.5

Memory Timings
@ 200 MHz 3.0-3-3-8 (1GB sticks) 3.0-4-4-8 (512MB stick)
@ 166 MHz 2.5-3-3-7 (1GB sticks) 2.5-4-4-7 (512MB stick)

Memory Timings
(CL) 2.5T
(tRCD) 3T
(tRP) 3T
(tRAS) 7T
(CR) 2T

System Properties show 1.84GHz for this system.

I was surprised when I went into the BIOS and discovered the timings already set at this:

Current Host Clock 166MHz
Configure SDRAM by SPD
SDRAM frequency 333 MHz
SDRAM Cash Latency 2
Row Precharge Time 2T
RAS Pulse Width 5T
RAS to CAS Delay 2T

Based on this information, I'm not sure if I would be able to speed up the timing. Please let me know your thoughts. I have been running the Stability Test for the past hour, and all is error-free. After I get off line, I'll run it again all night and see if any errors pop up.

 

its running at PC2700 speeds because thats what the FSB for you CPU is running at to increase it you'll need to set the memory bus from 166MHz to 200MHz if you can otherwise your stuck with it unless you replace your athlon xp 2500+ with an barton core'd athlon xp 2800+ or better which uses an 200MHz FSB .... also the Cas Latency or CR should be set to 1 instead of 2

 

Just checking to make sure we have the correct board = KT4V-L (v1.1)

If it is - read the recommendation for [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Memory Speed/CPU FSB Support Matrix [/FONT]
and [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Main Memory[/FONT]

Also make sure you have the latest BIOS.
Version 5.4 Update Date 2004-11-02

pcbugfixer

 

Yes, my board is the KT4V-L (v1.1). According to Everest, my BIOS is stated as AMI dated 07/29/03, with the video BIOS dated 12/18/01. I went on MSI's site and used their Live Update Online. Unfortunately, something didn't work, as after installing the CAB and clicking the button to do the scan, my computer crashed and restarted. Upon restart, I could no longer access the Internet. I had to uninstall my modem driver and restart the computer. The modem was reinstalled on start-up and now works fine. What would be your next recommendation?
Also, what exactly do you want me to notice in "read the recommendation for Memory Speed/CPU FSB Support Matrix and Main Memory? "
Now, I'll restart my computer and see if I can reset it from 166 to 200 MHz and change the CAS to 1. I notice when I start up my computer, the flash screens in the beginning say that my CAS is 2.5. I'm not sure what to trust.

 

G'Day "Barry "

1st. - Let me make sure that the board is the "KT4V-L (v1.1)" and not either of the "KT4V (MS-6712) & KT3V (MS-6712)" MoBo's, as there is s fast difference in drivers and any mix up will cause problems if used i.e. installed on the wrong MoBo. (MoBo = Abbreviation for Motherboard)

2nd. - Do I understand that you are using a 56K modem (Dial-up) connection ? - If so, due to line interference on analog or other standard type phone lines, I would never recommend performing an update on a motherboard which can perform a BIOS Flash update doing its updates. Line interfearance is too common and can corrupt the task (codes) it downloads hence more than likely the reason for the Modem driver crash.

3rd. - The memory modules suggested for the board i.e. "KT4V-L (v1.1)" is 3 x 1GB DDR400 (max speed modules usable on the MoBo) and that is what I would install making sure that the modules are the same and would not mix single with double sided modules.

4th. - I would also at all times recommend that the drivers are downloaded to your HDD and installed from there and not over a 56K Modem connection besides the line interference, they are also to slow which give rise to further interference for the driver and other online updates. We usually expand any drivers downloaded for a Motherboard, burn them on a CD and install them from it, thereby also having a driver CD for the Board.

5th. - I would recommend that you download the latest 5.4 BIOS Flash, install this on a bootable Floppy disk Drive (bootable with 98se system disk will do - DOS/Windows9X/Me/NT/2K/XP Excellent Bootdisks) following the instructions in the Manual and On the BIOS page, i.e.

"Special Note: The BIOS files provided here are exclusively for MSI products. MSI takes no responsibility for any damage caused by improper use or lack of technical expertise. If you can not see any BIOS file below, please use the tools listed at the bottom of the page for updating your BIOS. When using these tools to update your BIOS, please stop all other work in progress to avoid update interruption.
Attention:
Users who download BIOS from here (not using Live Update) should use the flash utility included in the downloaded compressed file when doing the BIOS update. To avoid BIOS update failure, please do not use older versions of the update utility or utilities not provided by MSI. "

Not withstanding that I said not to use the on-line Live Update for the reasons stated, and perform the BIOS Flash from the bootable FDD.

6th. - If you are not comfortable performing the Flash, either have someone with more experience do it for you, or don't do it at all and just make sure that you have the correct drivers installed, if not re-install them from the downloaded and saved location on your HDD or the CD that you made. Note that there will be no further updates for this board so the CD you make up with the latest (last) drivers is handy to have.

Addendum: I note that the BIOS dated (you posted) "my BIOS is stated as AMI dated 07/29/03" is not on the MSI BIOS list ?? - re-check this, it is very important and you may have mixed up the previous BIOS and other installations !!
What does it say on the splash screens when the PC 1st boots up in the text at the top within the 1st 6 or so lines??

pcbugfixer

 

hey barry don't change the cas setting the settings you want are 2.5 - 3 - 3 - 7 CL 1

 

G'Day Barry,

Do your motherboard BIOS and driver update from the Manufacturers site driver download!

Some of these utilities like the Everest: / CrucialScan.exe utilities is not what I would use. I had a look at it and all they are interested in is selling RAM, whereas on my system they recommended 4 x 2Gb and the Manufacturer ASUS said 4 x 1GB - I trust the Manufacturer in preference after all they made the MoBo.

However ther is no need to change anything in or for the Updating procedure from MSI.

pcbugfixer

 

Athlonite –
“you'll need to set the memory bus from 166MHz to 200MHz if you can” The Bios won’t allow that to be changed.

“also the Cas Latency or CR should be set to 1 instead of 2”
“don't change the cas setting the settings you want are 2.5 - 3 - 3 - 7 CL 1”
I’m not following exactly what you are recommending that I change to 1.

pcbugfixer –
I know that I have the KT4V-L (601-6712-050). I don’t remember how to verify that the version is 1.1, but could check that if you let me know how.

I downloaded 6712v54.zip and boot98.exe. I assume that you want me to put the boot98 onto a floppy and expand the zip file onto the same file. After that, I assume that you want me to restart the computer and boot it from that floppy, which will flash the BIOS to the new version. Please let me know if I have this correct.

I supposedly have a 56K modem, though I am lucky to get 24-28Kbps out of it.

My 1GB and 512MB sticks are all double-sided modules, and all are PC3200. I can remove the 512MB module, if that would be recommended. The 1GB ones are Kingston KVR400AK2/2GR, while the 512MB one is Mushkin 991093.

Here is the present BIOS information:
American Megatrends Released: 07/29/2003
AMIBIOS A6712VMS V1.9 071903
32-0729-009999-00101111-040201-VIA_K7-1AARK204
on BIOS page: AMIBIOS NEW SETUP UTILITY – VERSION 3.31a

 

Simply lift the cover on the case after you have turnet the PC off, and look at the Mobo, it will have the Model and Rev printed on it in white.

Read the last comment before you do this, as I suspect you have given me the wrong MoBo specs, or used the wrong drivers in the past.
Our action is dependent on the above verification of the printed ID's on the MoBo.

If we have the correct MoBo, Yes, just format the FDD 1st to ensure it is usable and has no errors, then copy the boot files and the flash files on it, read the command parameters usually in the files from the downloaded BIOS zip file that you expanded. Obviously do not copy the zip files only the extracted or expanded files otherwise they will not fit on the FDD.
However if the MoBo has been incorrectly Flashed in the past, I will need to get MSI to verivy my procedure (I will just phone my MSI contact to do this here in Australia)

There are tweakers for this, remind me later in a PM to send you the download and instructions for this.

The modules should in preference be all the same speed i.e. DDR400 and the same size, however if they are the same speed then they can be mixed sizes, however do not mix single sided with double sided, as this in most instances creates problems.

The V1.9 071903 indicates the the BIOS is dated 19 July 2003 and is version 1.9 which I cannot see in the BIOS list for the MoBo latest 5.4 BIOS Flash listing ??

However the KT4V MoBo does list a BIOS v1.9 has it listed as at 29 July 2003 and I suspect (previously indicated) that you do not have a KT4V-L MoBo but the KT4V MoBo or you did in the past use the wrong Flash and Drivers having used the KT4V on a KT4V-L MoBo - I hope you can follow this.

After you check the Model and Revision number on the MoBo, we may need to re-check this, to ensure we have the correct Flash for the Mobo.

Easy Check - The KT4V-L has a LAN port (network RJ45 adapter) on the MoBo, the KT3V does not.

pcbugfixer

 

Barry,

I figured it was time to jump back in here and make a couple of comments.

Barry, some of the guidance you are getting needs to be tempered with caution, good judgement and common sense.

On balence, I have no problem with the direction pcbugfixer is taking you and I am in total agreement with his interest in getting your BIOS programmed correctly and doing it from a floppy with the proper boot files, a flashing utility and the right BIN files. Ditto with comments regarding Everest, Belarc or SIW to determine board and revision # as opposed to reading this right off the board itself. Some members may tell you not to flash, but I've never subscribed to this philosophy unless there is a total neophyte on the receiving end. Not to worry, you don't fit that criteria.

Back to the "Go Slow Guidance ". From some of the earlier posts in this thread, it is obvious that Athlonite has some good socket 462 knowledge but part of that learning curve includes an understanding one's own limitations. I'm enclosing a couple of real basic links below to politely clarify a couple of things about memory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_timings and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency are pretty fundamental. For a detailed read that will humble any self proclaimed expert, google Adrian's Rojak Pot (old name but quicker to find).

There is considerable confusion and misinformation being posted as it relates to CAS (Column Address Strobe) or CL (commonly refered to as CAS Latency). Note: this is but one of four common memory timings which include:
CAS
TRCD (RAS to CAS delay)
TRP (RAS Precharge)
TRAS (Active to Precharge)

A reference has also been made to CAS 1, which is incorrect. I believe that Athlonite really meant to refer to the Command Rate which would be expressed as either a T1 or T2 timing. Note: one cannot achieve a T1 Command Rate with more than two modules present.

Before anyone sells Athlonite down the river, he has been right on the money with his assessment of what to expect with my earlier recommendation to Barry of By Speed or Auto when first setting up memory in the BIOS. (I wanted to avoid the long confusing explanation and simply run nice safe relaxed stepped down DDR 333 synchronous timings for starters) I must confess, I don't know this particular motherboard and as such, I don't know how much "adjustment" can be made to the memory timings, however, most readers will find it difficult to achieve a "noticeable difference" in system performance - thus my emphasis on stability. For those who are unaware, Barry has a very good benchmarking and torture testing utility written by Jouni Vuorio which will permit him to tweak his memory (dependent upon Mobo sophistication). I think that board will run in an asynchronis mode and permit DDR 400 memory settings but I'm not sure. It may even run his CPU (2500+ Barton) at 2x200 or 400MHz but again, I don't know that board and whether or not Barry has a pre or post week 39 production CPU. (No, I'm not interested in taking Barry down that path and yes, he's been there with his son's machine and is fully capable of handling all that and more)

I'm not trying to dis anyone here or trash their valuable contributions to this thread, I just want to urge Barry to proceed with caution and good judgement. With that, I'll apologize if I've offended anyone and I'll shut up and let Barry quarterback his own thread.

 

Thanks for all the input and your patience. I am in no hurry, preferring to have a well-functioning system rather than a rush job, though tweaks are nice, if they speed up the computer while maintaining the stability.
I must admit that I was getting a bit frustrated looking for the version number on this board. I spent a lot of time looking at all the little lettering, only to discover that it is printed in large lettering between the PCI slots. Now, I guess I'm just confused. The original box and manual states KT4V-L (601-6712-0050) MS-6712 V1.X ATX, while the board states KT4V MS-6712 VER:10A. To top it off, there is a LAN receptacle, which the manual describes as a VIA VT6103 LAN controller. AMI BIOS is listed as an approved BIOS in the owner's manual. The BIOS is the original. I have never flashed the BIOS on this mobo. If the serial number would help, I could provide that.
Thanks for the help.

 

G'DAy Barry,

Yes please, post the serial Number.

I suspect that you have a special or release of the motherboard that was made for a Brand Named PC ? - what is the Manufacturers Name of the PC you purchased ?

The Supplier mixed up the boxes ?

As soon as you post this info I will phone MSI for clarification of the MoBo

pcbugfixer

 

Here is the information listed on the box:
Made in China Part No.G11-CB00202
Bar Code: 8 16909 00286 7
P/N: 6712-050
S/N: K0305013422
KT4V-L (601-6712-050)
K7, KT400, 5.1ch S/W Audio, LAN, D-Bracket2

On the mobo is a bar code sticker with the number 3520018655

I bought it from PC Supply Source in Somerset, NJ 08873 on July 30, 2003 FOR $74.00. The sales receipt says:
MB6-MSI-B671250 --- BOX MSI KT4V-L/KT400/ATX/AUD/8X AGP/LAN
S/N: 2110539891, MFG: k0305013422

Now, that's a lot of numbers. I hope you can make heads or tails of it all. I built this computer myself from components, so if the board was switched, I have no idea if it was done in China or in New Jersey.

 

G'Day Barry,

Recommend you do nothing until we have cleared up the ID designation for the MoBo you have !!

Will try to contact MSI to-day.

pcbugfixer

 

Update,

The case has been forwarded to MSI Head Office - FAE (Field Application Engineers) Department.

Waiting for reply.
pcbugfixer